Bitstamp - wanted to withdraw money and was hit with these weird KYC questions

[Dhomochevsky]

Did anyone else receive such a message from support when they tried to withdraw money recently?

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to answer the following KYC questionnaire:

1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. When and how did you obtain your Bitcoins?
5. What is the reason for your activity - depositing BTC, selling, withdrawing?
6. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
7. Do you plan more of such withdrawals in the future? If yes, how many and why?
8. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

First of all, I exchanged money on Bitstamp exclusively since last spring. Withdrawals were less frequent during these last few months, but I had withdrawals both larger and smaller than the one I tried making now. I'm a verified customer with them.

Second, while some questions kinda sorta make sense, others are rather useless, redundant or impossible to address accurately. And some of their requests are downright audacious, not to mention grossly lacking respect to personal security. If I mine it's none of their goddamn business what the hell I mine with, what are the hardware specs and sure as hell they don't need to get invoices to every  piece of hardware I mine with.

So, anyone else?

[Minako]

It's even worse than that: after I answered all those questions, they asked for records relating to the purchase of those bitcoins. MtGox doesn't have records from 2011, and BitInstant isn't even operating anymore!!

I'm not sure what kind of records they'd want for in-person trades with people I haven't spoken to since.

[pontiacg5]

Second, while some questions kinda sorta make sense, others are rather useless, redundant or impossible to address accurately. And some of their requests are downright audacious, not to mention grossly lacking respect to personal security. If I mine it's none of their goddamn business what the hell I mine with, what are the hardware specs and sure as hell they don't need to get invoices to every  piece of hardware I mine with.

While I appreciate the idea behind this statement, they do need to cover their own asses just as you do. You can't simply say "I mined them." without being able to prove it, otherwise it invalidates the entire purpose of the survey. To me it looks as if they are trying to gather as much info as possible to soothe laundering concerns, yet still asking little enough to somewhat defend personal security.

If you really did mine the coins you should be able to show that they are relatively fresh from a coinbase tx. Most my coins only have one transaction, and that's from the well known pool to me. I'd argue that point if it were me.

If you don't like that, I believe coinbase has every right to tell you to take your business elsewhere.

[medUSA]

4. When and how did you obtain your Bitcoins?

If I were asked that question, I wouldn't know how to answer them...
Bitcoins from mining, faucets, gambling, donated, giveaways and bounties all mixed together

7. Do you plan more of such withdrawals in the future? If yes, how many and why?

How can they expect someone put a number on how many times they will withdraw in the future?

[meefozio]

I got this message on 1/8/2014, too.  I'd love to know if answering these questions actually helps in receiving my USD.

[malevolent]

I would take my business to a different exchange if I were asked questions like that (glad that I'm not using bitstamp).

How would someone submit a receipt or invoice for a miner that was bought 2nd hand?

Or if someone mined with GPUs and sold them in June/July at the latest when it was no longer profitable to mine?

I don't think I'd be able to document the majority of my holdings as they were either GPU mined long ago, or earned from trading on now-defunct exchanges, or from offering goods or services to businesses or individuals whose identities I no longer know, or have never known.

[MPOE-PR]

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to answer the following KYC questionnaire:

1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. When and how did you obtain your Bitcoins?
5. What is the reason for your activity - depositing BTC, selling, withdrawing?
6. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
7. Do you plan more of such withdrawals in the future? If yes, how many and why?
8. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

They forgot the one about the airspeed velocity of an unladen sparrow...srsly tho, pretty gross stuff.

[Keefe]

If I were unable to answer all their questions to their satisfaction, would they just keep my money indefinitely, or would I be able to trade back to BTC and withdraw that?

Is Bitstamp the only exchange doing this?

[js1985]

Roughly how much have you tried to withdraw, have withdrawn lately?

Can you cancel the withdrawal and convert back to btc and withdraw from bitstamp or they just sit on your money?

[meefozio]

Update: I answered their questions and I'll say that I was not very specific at all.  I said that I received the coins after a relative said he'd invest some of my spare cash into bitcoin for me.  After that, the withdrawal of roughly $80k USD was successfully wired into my bank account.  I only had to wait a week.

[leckey]

Wait... you get this shit even if you're verified? I thought the whole point of verification was to satisfy AML/KYC demands? If so, why the Spanish Inquisition?

[meefozio]

Wait... you get this shit even if you're verified? I thought the whole point of verification was to satisfy AML/KYC demands? If so, why the Spanish Inquisition?

Yea, even if you're verified.  I guess it's for extra KYC data.  It's definitely ridiculous... but at least we know it's not a tactic to prevent withdrawals altogether.

[Keefe]

Update: I answered their questions and I'll say that I was not very specific at all.  I said that I received the coins after a relative said he'd invest some of my spare cash into bitcoin for me.  After that, the withdrawal of roughly $80k USD was successfully wired into my bank account.  I only had to wait a week.

It's good to know it worked out ok for you, but I hope someone can find out if they would allow one to trade back to BTC and withdraw that without satisfying all their questions.

[leckey]

Wait... you get this shit even if you're verified? I thought the whole point of verification was to satisfy AML/KYC demands? If so, why the Spanish Inquisition?

Yea, even if you're verified.  I guess it's for extra KYC data.  It's definitely ridiculous... but at least we know it's not a tactic to prevent withdrawals altogether.

I used to work on AML and KYC implementation (as a web developer) for customers applying for fixed rate investment products for a number of European banks... and they didn't need this kind of information. Perhaps due to the fact they were only targeting UK customers, but even still................ this goes way above and beyond what they should actually need to know.

[pizzaman1337]

First of all, I exchanged money on Bitstamp exclusively since last spring. Withdrawals were less frequent during these last few months, but I had withdrawals both larger and smaller than the one I tried making now. I'm a verified customer with them.

Second, while some questions kinda sorta make sense, others are rather useless, redundant or impossible to address accurately. And some of their requests are downright audacious, not to mention grossly lacking respect to personal security. If I mine it's none of their goddamn business what the hell I mine with, what are the hardware specs and sure as hell they don't need to get invoices to every  piece of hardware I mine with.

Did you end up answering these questions? Did they let you withdraw?

I'm also curious about the USD amount you attempted to withdraw, if you don't mind sharing.

[TheSmackDown]

THE EXACT SAME.

I made some large withdrawals many months ago, and the bank kept the money for 10 days.

Now i try withdraw a nice amount as i am running low on fiat. And bitstamp hit me with a load of silly questions.

I hv refused to answer such questions and said i will move all my coins and that they already hv my ID.
I also said i will sue anyone who has asked them to do this namely the bank, and they can see i hv quite a fair few coins in my account. I am thinking of moving them before they see the ticket, which i excerpt below tho its been edited for my security:

We can't stand for this people, and don't, know your rights. ID yes you can accept, but asking you things you may or may not care to hv records of is none of their business at the least.

"Are you being serious? Bitcoin is not supposed to be part of the banking system or centrally regulated as such.

I did not sign up to be scrutinised. I signed up to trade and make money. To trade BTC.

As you can see i sold at xxx, and re-bought at xxx, i am a trader, and bought my coins a long time ago.
If you don't like it, i can move my coins elsewhere and we can cease our relationship. I am a trader of crypto currencies full stop.

if we are going to hv problems due to a crafty disgusting banking system and banks in general are scammers using fraud and further excuses to scrutinise how and when people make money. Its not on. Pls reply as i expect my withdrawal to be processed as normal and hv no idea why you are asking such question unrelated to trading."

"I put all my saving in years ago, did arbs on Gox and all sorts to make money. And all my money is held in BTC and traded until i require it to live. Most people need money to live on, tell the dirty bank, that I am no different."

"I hv withdrawn to my personal xxxxxxx bank account. And they all hate BTC the banks in UK. Most do as they do not want to integrate it or respect its value or use."

"Pls tell me who is creating the issue here, as i am v much willing to sue them as i find it a nuisance and hinderance to my life. They hv no right to hinder trade in any way or the withdrawal of any profits. What if i had kept v little fiat money due to trading the ...................... on various exchanges. Then i am not allowed my money when i need it?

Its not on at all. Sorry. I find this very insulting indeed, especially from Bitstamp the proper BTC people.

I may just put all my coins on XXXe if u can't stand up for whats correct against the banks. Go ....................... or somewhere where they still respect a mans finances are private business.

Thats is what i am in process of doing as i am fed up of these government scammers fraudsters thieves the banks."

I am still dumbfounded by the KYC questionnaire. Again, ID and due diligence is one thing, but this is a bank asking them to take the piss with any new large transfers, probably because a lot of btc types like cash and privacy as a libertarian unalienable right.

TheSmackDown

[TheSmackDown]

there is more

"And now, problems from your company, i do not expect. What i do with my BTC or money is nobodies business but my own. The banking industry and protocols are used to keep people poor through bureaucracy, and antagonise people to death before they are allowed to be wealthy. Yes i agree with combatting fraud but believe me the banks hv sets of rules that are an excuse to vilify people and scrutinise them and insult their integrity."

[flipstyle]

Whoah, that's crazy.

Doesn't this essentially negate all the benefits of what bitcoins and alt currencies were created for?  If you have to prove/substantiate the origins of all of your bitcoins, then why even have them in the first place?

It's not like you walk into a dealership with a briefcase full of legit 1000 dollar bills to purchase a ferrari cash, and the dealership asks for record receipts of how you earned the money.

While I'm all for anti-fraud measures, this does seem quite extreme.  It's almost as though they're acting like the IRS and interrogating, which should not be the case if you are already fully verified with them and have been doing good business for some time.

I'm starting to think a lot of these companies are simply implementing 'additional security measures' not for the security, but to hold funds for an additional amount of time.

Thanks for the headsup though, looks like I'll be staying with coinbase.

[TheSmackDown]

i am thinking of submitting this in response but i don't think it will get me anywhere,

1. BTC i found out about on the moon.
2. Purpose of trading is to lose as much coin as possible. Sell low, buy high.
3. Origin of BTC is moon dust particles.
4. I obtained many moons ago from the soil and mines on the moon.
5. I just like burning fiat currency when possible.
6. I plan to move away due to ignorant and insulting questions that relate to my privacy and or private business. That hv no relevance to anything but control and time wasting by banks.
7. Yes when i need money, i need withdraw it. When i buy a new porshe i will withdraw only $500. Nothing costs money anymore so i make withdrawals to burn fiat. Its my hobby.
8. I did provide a complete address and SWIFT code, for my own personal account with ..............

what you guys think ?!

[Bismarckbkk]

Lol thanks for posting.

You shouldnt be coerced into providing answers to questions like these just to recieve what is yours.

Bitstamp seemed to be the most trustworthy exchange but with this alarm bells are ringing.