Time to abandon bitcointalk.org ?

[Tril]

I recommend the bitcoin sub-reddit- http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin

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[Nefario]

I recommend the bitcoin sub-reddit- http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin

theymos is the mod there, so you can expect the same lax policy as here.

Also Eternal September has hit this forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

[FlipPro]

I recommend the bitcoin sub-reddit- http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcoin

theymos is the mod there, so you can expect the same lax policy as here.

Also Eternal September has hit this forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Good analogy with the Eternal September link..

[enmaku]

Also Eternal September has hit this forum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

Well if bitcoin's forums have hit their "Eternal September" then perhaps we can scrape a bit of data from that fact. Usenet's "Eternal September" hit in 1993 when AOL was released, thus giving access to the general populous. 1993 was a turning point for the internet and that year's explosive growth continued well into the future and, in fact, continues today. If we've hit our "Eternal September" then that probably means we've found our AOL, whatever that may be, and in any case we should be on the lookout for the explosive spread of the bitcoin medium.

Eternal September sucks for the original community, but it's AWESOME for the medium.

[elggawf]

I think the trolling (and more importantly, the reaction to it not being sweeping under the rug) is important, as I've said before.

One of the root benefits of Bitcoin is that it's supposed to be resilient. I call bullshit on the crash being caused by someone posting "SELL SELL SELL", and I call bullshit over any such thing being able to have any effect in the future. All this shit is coming out about Bruce (arguably Bitcoin's most well-known cheerleader) and the value really hasn't moved much since that happened - that's a good thing.

Regardless of how the bad news arrives, even if it does only arrive being carried by someone who just wants to watch the ensuing shitstorm, how the community and the economy reacts is much more important than where the bad news comes from.

Let's be realistic here - if you are a medium-sized business who thinks that Bitcoin could possibly benefit your organization, which is more likely to put you off of it?

a) The fact that wild swings in value could potentially mean you lose income/profit;
b) Some guys on a forum don't like it and troll the die-hards for their own amusement

Honestly, to me as a business owner, if I were coming in at this point in the game now? I'm more put off by the hardline libertarian "Taxation is theft! Fuck off parasite!" than I am a few douchebags trolling.

Physician, heal thyself.

[The_Duke]

Let's be realistic here - if you are a medium-sized business who thinks that Bitcoin could possibly benefit your organization, which is more likely to put you off of it?

a) The fact that wild swings in value could potentially mean you lose income/profit;
b) Some guys on a forum don't like it and troll the die-hards for their own amusement

As if a business owner is going to pick ONE reason for staying far away from bitcoin. It's the combination of it all.

- A coin that is programmed to seize existing
- Wild swing in relation to other currencies
- Uncertain legal status
- The association of bitcoin with scammers
- insert 100 more reasons

[hugolp]

Honestly, to me as a business owner, if I were coming in at this point in the game now? I'm more put off by the hardline libertarian "Taxation is theft! Fuck off parasite!" than I am a few douchebags trolling.

At the beggining of Bitcoin the forum was much more libertarian, and the mood was a lot better. People had more respect for each other, conversations were less agressive. People were happy in the forum. Even socialist and libertarians were speaking and discussing rationally. It wasnt a problem at all. Since the "progressive kids" started pouring in with their stupid attitude and their programmed ignorance the whole thing started going down.

[elggawf]

- A coin that is programmed to seize existing

Huh?

- Wild swing in relation to other currencies

Yes.

- Uncertain legal status

No, not really. Local currencies and/or barter tokens (Ripple et al) are not illegal. Bitcoin might be pushing shit up hill due to Silk Road and hacker groups using it, but that's not exactly the final nail in the coffin. I would guess there's a rapidly shrinking window to show that there's a legitimate use for the whole idea, but it's certainly not over yet.

- The association of bitcoin with scammers

Yes, but if we had a reliable, proven market to sell them on this isn't exactly a deal breaker to businesses. One of Bitcoins strengths is that once you've got your 6 confirmations, you're more or less home-free with the profit. Translating this into something that will make your customers want to use it is another thing entirely, but if you're just accepting Bitcoins and then cashing out then the scammers aren't really your concern.

[Nagle]

At the beginning of Bitcoin the forum was much more libertarian, and the mood was a lot better. People had more respect for each other, conversations were less aggressive. People were happy in the forum.

Of course. That was when the price was going up.  Once the bubble burst and the price went downhill, the mood became grouchy. That's normal for speculative investments.

We're now entering the "find the people behind the scams and string them up" phase.

[nmat]

I usually only click on threads regarding bitcoin announcements. I come here mostly to keep up with the new services that are coming up. Reddit is also cool for bitcoin news.

The bitcoin stack exchange site is great for Q&A, but it's closed for the general public at the moment. Opens next tuesday.

[JeffK]

Honestly, to me as a business owner, if I were coming in at this point in the game now? I'm more put off by the hardline libertarian "Taxation is theft! Fuck off parasite!" than I am a few douchebags trolling.

At the beggining of Bitcoin the forum was much more libertarian, and the mood was a lot better. People had more respect for each other, conversations were less agressive. People were happy in the forum. Even socialist and libertarians were speaking and discussing rationally. It wasnt a problem at all. Since the "progressive kids" started pouring in with their stupid attitude and their programmed ignorance the whole thing started going down.

Progresives ruin everything.

[The_Duke]

- A coin that is programmed to seize existing

Huh?

Don't tell me you haven't yet realised what will really happen to bitcoin if "the masses" would ever start using it, right?

Lets say that microsoft would have said that MS Word could only ever have 21 million .doc's in existence. And if too many docs would get lost, we would just add some more pages to the existing .docs, while never ever making new docs after the  original 21 million...
How long would it take before so many .docs were lost that the whole format became unusable? And how high do you think the capability of "the masses" is to lose data?

You realise that if you have 1 bitcoin and hold on to it long enough, it will be the ONLY bitcoin left some day. That must then be worth MASSIVE amounts, right? RIGHT?

[JeffK]

- A coin that is programmed to seize existing

Huh?

Don't tell me you haven't yet realised what will really happen to bitcoin if "the masses" would ever start using it, right?

Lets say that microsoft would have said that MS Word could only ever have 21 million .doc's in existence. And if too many docs would get lost, we would just add some more pages to the existing .docs, while never ever making new docs after the  original 21 million...
How long would it take before so many .docs were lost that the whole format became unusable? And how high do you think the capability of "the masses" is to lose data?

You realise that if you have 1 bitcoin and hold on to it long enough, it will be the ONLY bitcoin left some day. That must then be worth MASSIVE amounts, right? RIGHT?

Math is hard, but trust me, Bitcoin technology is sound and scalable.

[Piper67]

Honestly, to me as a business owner, if I were coming in at this point in the game now? I'm more put off by the hardline libertarian "Taxation is theft! Fuck off parasite!" than I am a few douchebags trolling.

At the beggining of Bitcoin the forum was much more libertarian, and the mood was a lot better. People had more respect for each other, conversations were less agressive. People were happy in the forum. Even socialist and libertarians were speaking and discussing rationally. It wasnt a problem at all. Since the "progressive kids" started pouring in with their stupid attitude and their programmed ignorance the whole thing started going down.

Correlation does not imply causality, Hugo. Yes, at the beginning the forum was more respectful. And yes at the beginning there was a higher proportion of libertarians in it. But the two aren't necessarily related by cause and effect. The fact is this is a very lightly moderated forum, Bitcoin's profile and popularity is rising, and the very idea of a currency/commodity like Bitcoin is such that it creates an impassioned response from most people (for or against). Most people out there are just not smart or deep enough to present cogent arguments for anything, let alone something as complex as a cryptocurrency, so they become childish trolls.

And some may have a hidden, or not so hidden, agenda.

You're a libertarian, I'm more of a humanist, but I'm sure if we were in the same room we could have a very intelligent, honest and respectful argument about all sorts of things... in English or in Spanish  

[hugolp]

Correlation does not imply causality, Hugo. Yes, at the beginning the forum was more respectful. And yes at the beginning there was a higher proportion of libertarians in it. But the two aren't necessarily related by cause and effect. The fact is this is a very lightly moderated forum, Bitcoin's profile and popularity is rising, and the very idea of a currency/commodity like Bitcoin is such that it creates an impassioned response from most people (for or against). Most people out there are just not smart or deep enough to present cogent arguments for anything, let alone something as complex as a cryptocurrency, so they become childish trolls.

True. But its not only correlation, its that a bunch of indoctrinated kids came with lots of arrogance and attitude and very little knowledge and respect destroyng the mood in the economics and politics sections. And they happen to be progressives. Not all progresives are like that, but they were progressives.

And some may have a hidden, or not so hidden, agenda.

You're a libertarian, I'm more of a humanist, but I'm sure if we were in the same room we could have a very intelligent, honest and respectful argument about all sorts of things... in English or in Spanish  

I dont see how a humanist can be any other thing than a libertarian... But I am sure we could have interesting conversations.

[elggawf]

Don't tell me you haven't yet realised what will really happen to bitcoin if "the masses" would ever start using it, right?

I personally have doubts it'll ever reach a sizable market, or grow to anything other than a minor niche in the payments industry. I don't think it will overtake Visa or the USD. I don't think the deflation will be that big of a deal really, and if it is - well then Bitcoin will make a fantastic social experiment.

Honestly though, unless we can do something about all the shit that's going on, I honestly don't think we'll ever make it to that point. Bitcoin is not a deflationary currency right now, and it will not be a deflationary currency for about 24 more years. The gradual slide in value is showing that the current rate of inflation is outpacing the demand for the currency. Two decades is a long time to expect the project to live, and I really do believe that if the project keeps growing (a huge if, IMHO), then in those two decades we'll solve the problems of lost coins in some way or another.

[Colargol]

- A coin that is programmed to seize existing

Huh?

You realise that if you have 1 bitcoin and hold on to it long enough, it will be the ONLY bitcoin left some day. That must then be worth MASSIVE amounts, right? RIGHT?

Oh you mean "cease".  I was worried about confiscation there for a while.  

 

Ya, I don't think there is any concern that a significant amount of them will get lost any time soon. We will have electricity and digital storage devices for a long time and as the value increases people will get more diligent about preserving and keeping them safe and secure.  

People still buy and sell Roman, and ancient Chinese coins.  

[JeffK]

Correlation does not imply causality, Hugo. Yes, at the beginning the forum was more respectful. And yes at the beginning there was a higher proportion of libertarians in it. But the two aren't necessarily related by cause and effect. The fact is this is a very lightly moderated forum, Bitcoin's profile and popularity is rising, and the very idea of a currency/commodity like Bitcoin is such that it creates an impassioned response from most people (for or against). Most people out there are just not smart or deep enough to present cogent arguments for anything, let alone something as complex as a cryptocurrency, so they become childish trolls.

True. But its not only correlation, its that a bunch of indoctrinated kids came with lots of arrogance and attitude and very little knowledge and respect destroyng the mood in the economics and politics sections. And they happen to be progressives. Not all progresives are like that, but they were progressives.

And some may have a hidden, or not so hidden, agenda.

You're a libertarian, I'm more of a humanist, but I'm sure if we were in the same room we could have a very intelligent, honest and respectful argument about all sorts of things... in English or in Spanish  

I dont see how a humanist can be any other thing than a libertarian... But I am sure we could have interesting conversations.

You seem to have structured your worldview in a way that paints libertarianism as leading to the best outcome for all parties involved. Free markets don't benefit or even enable everyone equally, and thus are nearly the opposite of humanism which focuses more on the effect of societal structure on humanity as a whole, rather than the individual.

Libertarianism is much closer to 'survival of the fittest' and humanism is more 'survival of humanity' is what I am saying.

[FlipPro]

Honestly, to me as a business owner, if I were coming in at this point in the game now? I'm more put off by the hardline libertarian "Taxation is theft! Fuck off parasite!" than I am a few douchebags trolling.

At the beggining of Bitcoin the forum was much more libertarian, and the mood was a lot better. People had more respect for each other, conversations were less agressive. People were happy in the forum. Even socialist and libertarians were speaking and discussing rationally. It wasnt a problem at all. Since the "progressive kids" started pouring in with their stupid attitude and their programmed ignorance the whole thing started going down.

I wouldn't go as far as giving the SA members such a serious title of progressives. Sure they are by majority a largely liberal forum, but to say that they have any specific ideology is an insult to all ideology's in current existence.

They are more regressive than anything else. They sit around and waist of TON of time talking about completely useless shit.

Far from progressive in my book...

[JeffK]

Honestly, to me as a business owner, if I were coming in at this point in the game now? I'm more put off by the hardline libertarian "Taxation is theft! Fuck off parasite!" than I am a few douchebags trolling.

At the beggining of Bitcoin the forum was much more libertarian, and the mood was a lot better. People had more respect for each other, conversations were less agressive. People were happy in the forum. Even socialist and libertarians were speaking and discussing rationally. It wasnt a problem at all. Since the "progressive kids" started pouring in with their stupid attitude and their programmed ignorance the whole thing started going down.

I wouldn't go as far as giving the SA members such a serious title of progressives. Sure they are by majority a largely liberal forum, but to say that they have any specific ideology is an insult to all ideology's in current existence.

They are more regressive than anything else. They sit around and waist of TON of time talking about completely useless shit.

Far from progressive in my book...

It's waste, and regressive is normally used to describe those who are for rolling back and 'regressing' to an earlier or more primitive time, such as that when we had no labor laws or regulations.

If you think we are advocates for that, you should probably go read SA for a bit