asset inflation and the coming collapse of the stock market?

[notig]

I have read that much of the QE that we have had has resulted in asset inflation instead of monetary inflation. Does this mean if asset prices crashed (such as stocks) that we would suddenly see a surplus of dollars and thus hyper inflation?

[Lloydie]

No the fall in asset prices means that the money goes *poof* as in never existed in the first place.

However, the debt stays, so everybody has no money.

[Inedible]

No the fall in asset prices means that the money goes *poof* as in never existed in the first place.

However, the debt stays, so everybody has no money.

Which debt are you referring to?

[Lloydie]

No the fall in asset prices means that the money goes *poof* as in never existed in the first place.

However, the debt stays, so everybody has no money.

Which debt are you referring to?

All debts. Government debt, mortgage debt, commercial property debt, stock margin debt...

[Kungfucheez]

Yes, cause deflation is always a great sign too right? 

[Lloydie]

deflation in the usa would not be pretty. they will try to avoid that

Sure they will. And they will also widen the gap between rich and poor, which creates a political problem. We are near the end of this game.

[Lloydie]

Yes, cause deflation is always a great sign too right? 

That's purely due to the sick debt based system that overly inflated asset prices. So the solution is more debt right? Or maybe we're going to finally fix this problem with a debt free currency like bitcoin.

[Kungfucheez]

Yes, cause deflation is always a great sign too right?  

That's purely due to the sick debt based system that overly inflated asset prices. So the solution is more debt right? Or maybe we're going to finally fix this problem with a debt free currency like bitcoin.

Being debt free doesn't solve a deflation problem. And all I am implying is that deflation is not necessarily a good thing, neither is inflation. Historically, some of the worst economic times happened while an economy was in a state of deflation. Here in the U.S, the Great Depression is just one of those cases.

[Lloydie]

Yes, cause deflation is always a great sign too right?  

That's purely due to the sick debt based system that overly inflated asset prices. So the solution is more debt right? Or maybe we're going to finally fix this problem with a debt free currency like bitcoin.

Being debt free doesn't solve a deflation problem. And all I am implying is that deflation is not necessarily a good thing, neither is inflation. Historically, some of the worst economic times happened while an economy was in a state of deflation. Here in the U.S, the Great Depression is just one of those cases.

Again, you distort the facts. The Great Depression was caused by excessive debt. Exactly the same problem we have today in the fiat world.

[Kungfucheez]

Yes, cause deflation is always a great sign too right?  

That's purely due to the sick debt based system that overly inflated asset prices. So the solution is more debt right? Or maybe we're going to finally fix this problem with a debt free currency like bitcoin.

Being debt free doesn't solve a deflation problem. And all I am implying is that deflation is not necessarily a good thing, neither is inflation. Historically, some of the worst economic times happened while an economy was in a state of deflation. Here in the U.S, the Great Depression is just one of those cases.

Again, you distort the facts. The Great Depression was caused by excessive debt. Exactly the same problem we have today in the fiat world.

What? How is the truth a distortion of the facts? I'm not giving you my opinion, that's just a fact.

As for the cause of the Great Depression, that is a matter of debate as there is as of yet no proven explanation as to why exactly. You could argue debt-deflation had a role in exacerbating the already insecure investment opportunities. It very well might have, but that's a whole topic in itself. The economic conditions today do not resemble those almost 90 years ago.

[Lloydie]

Yes, cause deflation is always a great sign too right?  

That's purely due to the sick debt based system that overly inflated asset prices. So the solution is more debt right? Or maybe we're going to finally fix this problem with a debt free currency like bitcoin.

Being debt free doesn't solve a deflation problem. And all I am implying is that deflation is not necessarily a good thing, neither is inflation. Historically, some of the worst economic times happened while an economy was in a state of deflation. Here in the U.S, the Great Depression is just one of those cases.

Again, you distort the facts. The Great Depression was caused by excessive debt. Exactly the same problem we have today in the fiat world.

What? How is the truth a distortion of the facts? I'm not giving you my opinion, that's just a fact.

As for the cause of the Great Depression, that is a matter of debate as there is as of yet no proven explanation as to why exactly. You could argue debt-deflation had a role in exacerbating the already insecure investment opportunities. It very well might have, but that's a whole topic in itself. The economic conditions today do not resemble those almost 90 years ago.

Only economists debate the causes of the Great Depression. Just like Bernanke denies that high debt levels caused the GFC.

For the rest of us, it's clear as day: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D9-JNTtRKgs/TDXhb0mJc6I/AAAAAAAABEk/xVPg-6fcKbg/s1600/Picture%2B171.png

Deflation is death to a debt based economic system. For bitcoin, deflation is a very, very good thing.

[Kluge]

I have read that much of the QE that we have had has resulted in asset inflation instead of monetary inflation. Does this mean if asset prices crashed (such as stocks) that we would suddenly see a surplus of dollars and thus hyper inflation?

Just from regularly going grocery shopping as a cheap bastard, I believe that's false. I get sticker shock just from looking at a bag of potatoes anymore. Ramen, soda, water (both water exclusively and bottled water), cheese, celery, everything else - everything's ~2-4x more than what I remember as a kid.... and I'm 22. Why... I remember back in my day when you could buy eight microwave burritos for a buck, gas was under $1/gal (I actually only have one memory of this, and the station was having some kind of celebration), Ramen was 10/$1, and in-season corn was 20/$1. Now it's 2/$1, $3.50/gal, 4/$1, 8/$1.

You can take a look @ gov't BLS food data... pretty much everything shot up ~20-75% from 2010 to 2012. Meanwhile, BLS CPI-U (for everything -- I don't think they post food-only numbers) is right around 2.5% annually since around the time I was born. 1.025^22=172.1572%, which would accurate enough for 2010-2012, but certainly not be accurate for 1991-2013. By my guesstimates based on memory of old prices, the annual average increase for food alone is >5%, probably closer to 8-9% since I'm unsure "when" I started keeping mental notes on prices, which is much more in-line with SGS data, which would make the data much closer to "real" inflation from QE and "normal" inflation.

Anyway -- all that to suggest I don't think inflation wasn't factored into consumer prices, it's just I think the official numbers are either misleading or flat-out wrong... but my memory's notoriously bad.

[Kungfucheez]

Yes, cause deflation is always a great sign too right?  

That's purely due to the sick debt based system that overly inflated asset prices. So the solution is more debt right? Or maybe we're going to finally fix this problem with a debt free currency like bitcoin.

Being debt free doesn't solve a deflation problem. And all I am implying is that deflation is not necessarily a good thing, neither is inflation. Historically, some of the worst economic times happened while an economy was in a state of deflation. Here in the U.S, the Great Depression is just one of those cases.

Again, you distort the facts. The Great Depression was caused by excessive debt. Exactly the same problem we have today in the fiat world.

What? How is the truth a distortion of the facts? I'm not giving you my opinion, that's just a fact.

As for the cause of the Great Depression, that is a matter of debate as there is as of yet no proven explanation as to why exactly. You could argue debt-deflation had a role in exacerbating the already insecure investment opportunities. It very well might have, but that's a whole topic in itself. The economic conditions today do not resemble those almost 90 years ago.

Only economists debate the causes of the Great Depression. Just like Bernanke denies that high debt levels caused the GFC.

For the rest of us, it's clear as day: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D9-JNTtRKgs/TDXhb0mJc6I/AAAAAAAABEk/xVPg-6fcKbg/s1600/Picture%2B171.png

Deflation is death to a debt based economic system. For bitcoin, deflation is a very, very good thing.

Yeah, I guess many things are clear as day when you refuse to research a subject

[Lloydie]

Yes, cause deflation is always a great sign too right?  

That's purely due to the sick debt based system that overly inflated asset prices. So the solution is more debt right? Or maybe we're going to finally fix this problem with a debt free currency like bitcoin.

Being debt free doesn't solve a deflation problem. And all I am implying is that deflation is not necessarily a good thing, neither is inflation. Historically, some of the worst economic times happened while an economy was in a state of deflation. Here in the U.S, the Great Depression is just one of those cases.

Again, you distort the facts. The Great Depression was caused by excessive debt. Exactly the same problem we have today in the fiat world.

What? How is the truth a distortion of the facts? I'm not giving you my opinion, that's just a fact.

As for the cause of the Great Depression, that is a matter of debate as there is as of yet no proven explanation as to why exactly. You could argue debt-deflation had a role in exacerbating the already insecure investment opportunities. It very well might have, but that's a whole topic in itself. The economic conditions today do not resemble those almost 90 years ago.

Only economists debate the causes of the Great Depression. Just like Bernanke denies that high debt levels caused the GFC.

For the rest of us, it's clear as day: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_D9-JNTtRKgs/TDXhb0mJc6I/AAAAAAAABEk/xVPg-6fcKbg/s1600/Picture%2B171.png

Deflation is death to a debt based economic system. For bitcoin, deflation is a very, very good thing.

Yeah, I guess many things are clear as day when you refuse to research a subject

If that makes me not an economist, sure I'm okay with that. I'll hang on to my commonsense brain cells for a little longer, thank you very much.

Economists should think about getting real jobs instead of giving the world more useless fucking research.

[Kungfucheez]

Yeah

I think commonsense left your brain a long time ago and is now orbiting Uranus.

[Lloydie]

Yeah

I think commonsense left your brain a long time ago and is now orbiting Uranus.

Hahaha. Made you come down to my level asshole.

[Kungfucheez]

Yeah

I think commonsense left your brain a long time ago and is now orbiting Uranus.

Hahaha. Made you come down to my level asshole.

So. This is what Hell's like.

[Lloydie]

Yeah

I think commonsense left your brain a long time ago and is now orbiting Uranus.

Hahaha. Made you come down to my level asshole.

So. This is what Hell's like.

You don't have to be here. You can GTFO and go back to your fiat world. I see your friend Thaaanos doesn't work on weekends.

[Kungfucheez]

Yeah

I think commonsense left your brain a long time ago and is now orbiting Uranus.

Hahaha. Made you come down to my level asshole.

So. This is what Hell's like.

You don't have to be here. You can GTFO and go back to your fiat world. I see your friend Thaaanos doesn't work on weekends.

Who? What? Take a chill pill man. Guess this is why they designed an "ignore" button

[Lloydie]

Yeah

I think commonsense left your brain a long time ago and is now orbiting Uranus.

Hahaha. Made you come down to my level asshole.

So. This is what Hell's like.

You don't have to be here. You can GTFO and go back to your fiat world. I see your friend Thaaanos doesn't work on weekends.

Who? What? Take a chill pill man. Guess this is why they designed an "ignore" button

The FUD is strong in you.