Ghash.io and he existential threat to bitcoin

[DeNovo]

Hi,

I'm sure everyone knows by now that Ghash.io "reached 45% of the computing power of all global bitcoin miners, just six points short of the 51% that would be required to break bitcoin" (http://qz.com/165273/the-existential-threat-to-bitcoin-its-boosters-said-was-impossible-is-now-at-hand/#/h/39559,2/)

Is there a way to prevent stuff like that from happening by implementing BC software modifications (for example if blockchain.info has up-to-date info which group of miners controls what percentage of BC network can software prevent any one of those groups from reaching say 45% of the network activity?)

Thank you for your input!

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[frankenmint]

Hi,

I'm sure everyone knows by now that Ghash.io "reached 45% of the computing power of all global bitcoin miners, just six points short of the 51% that would be required to break bitcoin" (http://qz.com/165273/the-existential-threat-to-bitcoin-its-boosters-said-was-impossible-is-now-at-hand/#/h/39559,2/)

Is there a way to prevent stuff like that from happening by implementing BC software modifications (for example if blockchain.info has up-to-date info which group of miners controls what percentage of BC network can software prevent any one of those groups from reaching say 45% of the network activity?)

Thank you for your input!

if BTC blockchain is untrusted then by all means - we will hop to another Sha Altchain - let Ghash.io take 51% - this is also partially happening because  centralization is allowing those participants to reap the rewards of finding more blocks consistently. 


Look at is this way....should we ban people like bill gates and John macafee and warren buffett from building their own gigahash.ios to become the 51%ers?  I think we shouldn't (they and their investing money have as much the right to play as anyone else does), but that we should instead move onto a different sha coin altogether IF AND ONLY IF we see that this coin is becoming exploited.   

[DeNovo]

Thanks for the answer! How hard (technically) it would be to get rid of "tainted blockchain"? Wouldn't that cause confusion among other miners considering de-centralized nature of the BC network?

[byronbb]

I mean in dire circumstances DOS attacking a pool to defend the network might be the last resort.

[descarte]

they seemed to realise this and drop their share significantly.

have to give them credit for this.

[jeliman]

........ but that we should instead move onto a different sha coin altogether IF AND ONLY IF we see that this coin is becoming exploited.   

1. different altchain - like chain of another currency?

2. And if you do so, what does prevent the bad guys from doing the same?

[hyphymikey]

........ but that we should instead move onto a different sha coin altogether IF AND ONLY IF we see that this coin is becoming exploited.   

1. different altchain - like chain of another currency?

2. And if you do so, what does prevent the bad guys from doing the same?

No kidding... If they move onto an alt chain before everyone else does, they will have even more than 51% of that network.

Litecoin would go to the moon. Maybe I should go buy some LTC now

[FandangledGizmo]

I think it is fine, but I would like Ghash.io to put this paragraph on their website so everyone involved with them can read it each morning and feel proud of themselves.

'Everyday I am doing my best to destroy Bitcoin! Everyday I am giving resources to a mining pool that controls more than 10% of the network! One day soon I will be able to look my daughter, my mother and my wife in the eye and tell them that I am personally responsible for them being prostitutes and slaves. Yes, I personally gave money to help buy the equipment the government and central banks used to gain control of the Bitcoin network, crash the price and destroy trust in Bitcoin. I could have just bought Bitcoin or used P2Pool but instead I wanted to be the devil and destroy mankind."

[chopsticks]

This is their official response --

Bitcoin mining pool GHash.IO is preventing accumulation of 51% of all hashing power
https://ghash.io/ghashio_press_release.pdf

[hyphymikey]

I think it is fine, but I would like Ghash.io to put this paragraph on their website so everyone involved with them can read it each morning and feel proud of themselves.

'Everyday I am doing my best to destroy Bitcoin! Everyday I am giving resources to a mining pool that controls more than 10% of the network! One day soon I will be able to look my daughter, my mother and my wife in the eye and tell them that I am personally responsible for them being prostitutes and slaves. Yes, I personally gave money to help buy the equipment the government and central banks used to gain control of the Bitcoin network, crash the price and destroy trust in Bitcoin. I could have just bought Bitcoin or used P2Pool but instead I wanted to be the devil and destroy mankind."

So you want this on every pool that has more than 10% of the network? That's pretty much all of them.

[FandangledGizmo]

So you want this on every pool that has more than 10% of the network? That's pretty much all of them.

Start with the biggest and work your way down. (I.e if BTC-Guild and Eligius cut hashing power right now it could make Ghash.io even more of a threat.)

Satoshi came back this week and he explained better than I can. (Well who knows, it could be... )

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=411099.msg4451843#msg4451843

The basic security premises of bitcoin concept was that there would be decentralized network of bitcoin nodes each with small share of hashing power to ensure that there is no single person or small group who can control Bitcoin network. If it's not true then quite a lot of bad things could happen, here is the link with some examples of what kind of new rules can be enforced if someone have majority of hashing power under control, this is also known as soft-fork, to name a few: shorter block time interval, coin divisibility, native color coin support or require AML registration for every address and turn it into surveillance coin.

People who create bitcoin infrastructure, provide services and innovate are those who make Bitcoin network useful and increase it's value, but via inflation hashers leech that value out of Bitcoin, in exchange they were suppose to help to enforce Bitcoin network rules in decentralized manner. That premises was broken by pools, no longer hashers have to run bitcoin software and govern Bitcoin network instead they just point their hashing power to pools and delegate their enforcement power to small group of people, and that makes that hashing power useless in terms of securing Bitcoin network

Ghash.io was used for double spending. And yet two months after the incident their hashing power share was 15% bigger, and it's only dropped after they stopped accepting new hashers. This is happening because hashers do not care about Bitcoin network security and from that point of view they are evil.

[jdot007]

FandangledGizmo, an excellent post & reference link. I'll be sure to point anyone I know thats just getting into bitcoin
to it as a mandatory discussion piece.

[Maddin]

But if ghash.io reaches the 51% it does not mean that they will start manipulating the blockchain for evil things.

[FandangledGizmo]

But if ghash.io reaches the 51% it does not mean that they will start manipulating the blockchain for evil things.

1. Even at 40% they can start manipulating the blockchain for evil things.

2. Bitcoin's whole premise is that it is supposed to be decentralised. Very little trust required & also almost impossible for a third party to significantly hurt. 

If you have to 'trust' that ghash.io won't use their hashing power for double spending, (and you can't even trust that because they already did Double Spend), then the whole security premise of Bitcoin is flawed.

The basic security premises of bitcoin concept was that there would be decentralized network of bitcoin nodes each with small share of hashing power to ensure that there is no single person or small group who can control Bitcoin network.

[Sheldor333]

I think it is fine, but I would like Ghash.io to put this paragraph on their website so everyone involved with them can read it each morning and feel proud of themselves.

'Everyday I am doing my best to destroy Bitcoin! Everyday I am giving resources to a mining pool that controls more than 10% of the network! One day soon I will be able to look my daughter, my mother and my wife in the eye and tell them that I am personally responsible for them being prostitutes and slaves. Yes, I personally gave money to help buy the equipment the government and central banks used to gain control of the Bitcoin network, crash the price and destroy trust in Bitcoin. I could have just bought Bitcoin or used P2Pool but instead I wanted to be the devil and destroy mankind."

Sorry but even if you did something like that you would have realized by now how crazy that is. Even if government decides to join (maybe it already has) it would not be to ruin it all but to control it. Easiest way to control it is to mine most of it and have most of it in your possession. It would just be like it is now. Nothing would change.

[rext]

it will probably continue to raise until another competitor challenges them