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Author Topic: Thinking ahead - physical resources and production  (Read 879 times)
ElectricMucus
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September 02, 2011, 06:06:31 PM
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I think the ultimate testing point for bitcoin will be if the community is able to acquire its own resources and means of producing goods. Trade just will not cut it in the long run.

For this we would need bitcoiners which own land have the ability to use it to acquire them. (means of production) At first it would be just farming, since it is the most versatile use of it. The obvious choice will be food. And since inflation manifests itself in the fiat economy the most here bitcoin would have the advantage.

The secondary uses are the use of the remaining biomass to produce energy and pla plastic. This is a growing industry anyway and it will be more and more apparent later on.

The third point is actual production of consumer goods, be it packaged food, robots, horticultural equipment and so on.

To my knowledge zero effort has been taken to go into that direction, but now probably, after the first hype cycle it's time to think about a more permanent adaptation. I myself have a 3d printer coming via mail next week and will use it to produce primitive goods for the bitcoin communtiy. The plan is to ultimately become independent of raw materials as a product and own everything needed to get production going "off the land".
Yes this is probably too soon to think about such things, and with current outlook it might even look like bitcoin might go under, but we are just at a certain point of the gartner hype cycle, and finally beyond the peak of inflated expectations for almost everybody. Since this adaptation gonna take long I might as well start now. (Early bird gets the bait)  


What might be even more interesting is when the first production tools are actually sold for bitcoin (no not miners) and when there will be the first successful sale of property. I've seen some attempts to rent property for bitcoin and even a sale of a house but none of this worked out. This is very important because bitcoin has to become independent of the investor cashflow which is already pretty quenched and with current outlook will continue to do so.

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onesalt
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September 03, 2011, 01:37:18 AM
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Please tell me more about your hypothetical situtation that will never happen.
ElectricMucus
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September 03, 2011, 01:40:57 AM
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whatever, I've already gone elsewhere.

and now gfto my thread

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September 03, 2011, 02:19:39 AM
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Bitcoin exists on the Internet, and should stay there. Our current currencies were adapted for Internet (with Paypal, transfer of credit card information, etc), but were not developed with Internet in mind. Bitcoin was, and that's why it should stay there, because it was developed with the web in mind.

If you want the Bitcoin to succeed, you need to reinforce its position on the Internet. It needs to be omnipresent in that virtual world. Virtual currency for virtual world, physical currency for physical world. Just make an easy bridge between those two world, propagate Bitcoin everywhere on the web, and we're good to go Wink
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September 03, 2011, 06:52:12 AM
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Bitcoin exists on the Internet, and should stay there. Our current currencies were adapted for Internet (with Paypal, transfer of credit card information, etc), but were not developed with Internet in mind. Bitcoin was, and that's why it should stay there, because it was developed with the web in mind.

If you want the Bitcoin to succeed, you need to reinforce its position on the Internet. It needs to be omnipresent in that virtual world. Virtual currency for virtual world, physical currency for physical world. Just make an easy bridge between those two world, propagate Bitcoin everywhere on the web, and we're good to go Wink

Dude, the internet is going to be in everything. There won't even be a distinction. We see the web mostly through one 20in screen, but it's leaking out and getting everywhere.

Keeping things where they we're "meant to be" if you even knew that is silly. If light bulbs were meant to read Shakespeare until 10pm would you not use them for anything else? Using things in new ways is awesome.

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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September 03, 2011, 12:59:30 PM
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I think the ultimate testing point for bitcoin will be if the community is able to acquire its own resources and means of producing goods. Trade just will not cut it in the long run.


<snip for brevity>

I tend to agree with your post. While some here say that Bitcoin is an 'internet currency' I think it's going to have to venture offline if it's to truly see mass adoption. Of course, with that comes a serious concern about government intervention but we're nowhere near there yet.

It's interesting you should bring up farming as a first step. Where I am, a lot of people are getting into self-sustainability. They know that there's a lot of hanky panky that goes on with their food and they don't want to rely on Walmart, Costco, Asda, or whatever as the place to buy safe food. So they're getting into farming.

Over the last few months, a local 'growers club' has been forming and they've been bartering with other growers for things they need. Like John might grow cucumbers and lettuce while Mike raises chickens. John wants some meat so he barters some of his veggies with Mike and both are happy.  Of course as the network grows they're coming up on the limitations of having such varied inventory and are starting to talk about, once again, selling to each other for fiat currency.

So I did a little presentation to them the other day about Bitcoin and everyone is excited. There's a lot of technical details to work out but we're slowly getting there. Right now, there are about 30-50 people that routinely come together to trade and we're getting everyone set up with either an offline wallet or, for those without a computer, an online equivalent.  They're going to try it for a bit and, eventually, if everything goes well, they plan to only trade with each other in Bitcoin and adopt a 'no fiat allowed' policy for group membership.

I'm telling this story because I think it's a good way Bitcoin can spread in a community. When the club started, there were only 2-5 people. Now, less than six months later, there are 30-50 people who regularly trade. If the clubs adopts a 'Bitcoin-only' rule, local, real-world use, of the currency will rise as the club grows. It might never overtake fiat locally, but it can provide a good and healthy trading environment for a growing group of people.

I think the real 'takeoff' for Bitcoin will be once the price stabilizes and isn't so reactive. It's been pretty nice lately but it can still be easily upset by large buys or sells. Once things even out, it'll be easier for people to trade in Bitcoin- almost as easy as it is in fiat. 

I have hope for the offline future of Bitcoin.

Rage
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September 04, 2011, 10:01:20 AM
 #7

Bitcoin exists on the Internet, and should stay there. Our current currencies were adapted for Internet (with Paypal, transfer of credit card information, etc), but were not developed with Internet in mind. Bitcoin was, and that's why it should stay there, because it was developed with the web in mind.

If you want the Bitcoin to succeed, you need to reinforce its position on the Internet. It needs to be omnipresent in that virtual world. Virtual currency for virtual world, physical currency for physical world. Just make an easy bridge between those two world, propagate Bitcoin everywhere on the web, and we're good to go Wink

Very good point!

Internet is the area with most of the freedom and least regulation, and the virtual economy can grow to let the physical world economy seems so small. Actually many of the physical products created in virtual world first before they are produced

ElectricMucus
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September 04, 2011, 10:50:12 AM
 #8

I don't make this distinction. Cyberspace is a popped 90s bubble in which nobody believes anymore. And in difference to paypal and the like bitcoin has nothing to do with the web. It uses it's own protocol.

Actually many of the physical products created in virtual world first before they are produced

All of it. almost.
Of course most of it stays withing corporate vlans, but more and more designs are made available to the public. And I don't see a saturation in this trend, if anything it's accelerating.

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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