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Author Topic: emunie is NOT a scam  (Read 1716 times)
Peachy (OP)
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January 12, 2014, 03:31:31 PM
 #1

Well, I didn't WANT to join this board as it seems to be growing into a "wild west" type of adventure whereby the amount of disinformation is becoming ever more increasing day-by-day.

Regardless, in order to respond to the amount of FUD by propaganda-nistas, here's my "substantive" post so that I can then wait the requisite 4 hours before linking it as my "generic response" to false scam claims.

Original post:
http://forum.emunie.com/index.php?/topic/1112-when-will-be-start-the-pre-sale/?p=11754

Provided below as reference:


TL/DR: I really like eMunie.
---------------
I was invited to the beta test group a few days ago.  I'm currently running several test instances of the user-client and hatcher-client across multiple servers spread out geographically.  

In no way ever have I been requested to contribute financially to the project.  I have, however, done so willingly based upon my initial testing results.

Initial first impression of the client:

This application will most likely be a game-changer.  I have to constantly temper my enthusiasm for how beautifully and elegantly the current beta version operates and thankfully my wife is always there to keep my "feet on the ground."   Wink     Regardless, in its current version I find it to be elegant, simple, easy-to-use and understand.  Those are high bars to leap over in the crypto-currency environment if "we" (the less than 1% of the world involved in the electronic money ecosystem) ever hope to achieve any significant adoption by the masses who don't care for complicated systems.

Fundamentally, my main reasons for why I believe in emunie are based on its economic model since it is founded upon "The Quantity Theory of Money"  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantity_theory_of_money

The basic premise behind this theory is that the "supply" of a currency should equal "demand" for its use and nothing more.   This theory is the ONLY theory that ALL competing economic theorists can generally agree on (read up on Keynesians vs. Monetarists vs. Austrians vs. Milton Friedman).  As such, if you can find ANY theory that all of these guys can agree on as being an accurate representation for how trade and commerce should operate efficiently then you know you've stumbled upon something revolutionary.

However, "ideas" are dime-a-dozen, the real test of an idea is in its "implementation" in a real world environment.  Accordingly, once it has been tried and subsequently fails there are many critics available that will quickly pounce upon the notion that the "theory" itself is flawed.  This is not entirely true.  As someone with a Six-Sigma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Sigma) background for over 15 years + 20 years experience in Supply Chain Management (ie study of supply vs. demand in business http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_chain_management) I would suggest that the fault "might" lie instead upon the technical "implementation" of the theory since the tools to efficiently implement it might not have existed at the time it was implemented.

For the past 5000 years the "implementation" of this theory has been tested countless times to be a successful method of promoting trade and commerce.  However, the failure of each of these "implementations" has NOT been been because of the theory itself, but rather a failure in how best to "control" the supply vs. the demand through the limited tools available at the time.

Prior to the internet, there was really no easy, systematic, or automated method to determine supply vs. demand.  As such, humans were needed to be in control centrally.  This was done by Kings, central planners and, most recently, by central banks through the study and analysis of a whole host of trailing and leading economic indicators.  Unfortunately (by design), this system is flawed in numerous ways since primarily the central body is operating in a "reactionary" environment in that they must constantly be tweaking the supply to match demand based on the latest data available.  When they miscalculate in their analysis we get a predictable set of circumstances that lead to either an inflationary or deflationary environment.  At these extremes we find hysteria and depression since these are the natural outcomes from mismanaging the supply/demand based on imperfect information.

In the world of emunie the above scenario is removed from the hands of a centrally managed group that uses imperfect information to control suppy/demand and is instead autonomously managed by the system itself.  As demand increases so does supply.  As supply increases, it is distributed equally among all users so that the impact of inflation is eliminated (i.e. a rising tide lifts all boats equally).  A rising supply at "just the right level" ensures trade and commerce.  The ability to adjust supply/demand in near real-time across a decentralized network is what sets this system miles above any competing "coin" based solutions.

At this point I've probably waxed on for far too long (as my wife will agree I have a tendency to do) so in closing I'd like to suggest for you to watch the following videos I have seen recently if you have the time (yes, they are a bit long, but worthwhile nonetheless).

While watching each video try to avoid the conspiracy theory conjecture and the "us vs. them" rhetoric that can easily be incited in such an emotionally charged topic as money often leads to.  Instead, try to keep a pragmatic/rational mindset and always continually ask "Why?"  By that, I mean you should keep asking yourself "why" each of these "implementations" has failed.

History of currency:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdSq5H7awi8&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLE88E9ICdipidHkTehs1VbFzgwrq1jkUJ

Comment:  Granted this guy is a promoter of gold/silver, but the history lesson is quite relevant.  Technically, (my view) gold and silver are nothing more than non-technological method for "trying" to control supply/demand in world of imperfect knowledge of supply/demand by pegging it to something that we know is limited.  As stated earlier, previously we didn't know of any other way to manage it (although emunie has found a way).

Note how at around 3 to 4 minutes into it we see "why" it was successful in that it was standard, universal, fairly stable unit of account (price) that  allowed for the coins to be successful.

Biggest Scam in history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0
Comment:   This video does a solid job of explaining the current central bank process, but I provide it more so as an example of a flawed "implementation" of the theory to try and control supply/demand based on imperfect information.

Secret of Oz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swkq2E8mswI

Comment:  This provides a view of an alternative "implementation" based on who should manage supply (government instead of central bank), but never discusses "how" it will be controlled by the government to ensure supply matches demand.  As such, regardless of whether a central bank or the government controls it are meaningless since both would be dependent upon imperfect information and self interests to manage the environment.  However, the video does show several examples for how allowing "supply"  to be adjusted dynamically to meet demand results in the promotion of increased trade and commerce.


RADiX (formerly eMunie): The future of money
sniksen
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January 12, 2014, 03:45:46 PM
 #2

I've had a keen eye on eMunie for a while. I'll be sure to read your post thoroughly and wwatch those vids after the match. Good post.
extee
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January 12, 2014, 11:08:25 PM
 #3

to shut up the trolls calling it a scam/vaporware this video was just released by one of the devs
it shows the emunie beta client in operation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOsvGz5X5OI#t=0

you should add it to your OP.

MsCollec
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January 12, 2014, 11:37:43 PM
 #4

I hope Dan will reconsider his stand on cancelling the presale. To all potential investors, do your own research. i'm a beta tester and i believe in eMunie.
Emule
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January 13, 2014, 05:36:58 PM
 #5

They should ban eMunie from BTT.

emunie  has nothing to do with crypto, this is just a company owned by 1 person and 50 investors, this is not the way crypto should evolve


let them move to Ihub and nasdaq.
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January 13, 2014, 06:52:01 PM
 #6

Thanks for that post.

There should be a good flow of videos over the next couple of weeks, and I'm also considering bringing forward the open beta (another reason why I cancelled the pending IPO, I can't do both) once we have a more stable version of the client.

eMule you are going on ignore, tired of reading your tripe and losing a IQ point for every post I read of yours.  Ive witnessed more intelligence in a graveyard than you possess!  Good bye!

r3animation
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January 13, 2014, 06:54:47 PM
 #7

They should ban eMunie from BTT.

emunie  has nothing to do with crypto, this is just a company owned by 1 person and 50 investors, this is not the way crypto should evolve


let them move to Ihub and nasdaq.


I'm pretty sure you're stupid.
msin
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January 14, 2014, 04:18:54 AM
 #8

They should ban eMunie from BTT.

emunie  has nothing to do with crypto BTC, this is just a company owned by 1 person and 50 investors, this is not the way crypto should evolve


let them move to Ihub and nasdaq.


Made some corrections for you.
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January 14, 2014, 04:20:41 AM
 #9

eMunie is a pre-mined ripple 2.0

That's a solid fact
msin
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January 14, 2014, 04:26:18 AM
 #10

eMunie is a pre-mined ripple 2.0

That's a solid fact

No it's not, that's a solid fact.
Apraksin
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January 14, 2014, 11:49:25 AM
 #11

eMunie is a pre-mined ripple 2.0

That's a solid fact

How about elaborating on your "facts" since you're so sure.
Peachy (OP)
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January 14, 2014, 12:44:11 PM
Last edit: January 14, 2014, 12:54:48 PM by Peachy
 #12

Well, let me see if I can ELI5 it for you so that hopefully it will become apparent that it is NOT a pre-mine type of application.

Think of the emu "ecosystem" as a giant ball tank.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln10vlpiY31qjd5ryo1_500.jpg
 
Once your "inside" the ecosystem there are a fixed number of balls (which is where the incorrect application of the term premine probably comes from).  You can trade them around with each other and eventually there will be different colors (asset types) that will be freely traded "within" the ecosystem ball tank.   Thus hatcher-to-hatcher, client-to-hatcher transcations are happening "inside" the walls of the ball tank and thus no need to expand (inflate) or shrink (deflate) the walls of the tank since there is "just enough" density so that everyone can transact easily (i.e. optimized level of fun).

The only way balls are added into the tank are by those wanting to "jump in" from outside the ball tank.  As they exchange fiat for balls (and no one inside the tank wants to sell them any of their balls) then the ecosystem senses this additional demand and creates new balls for everyone (50% to the hatcher / 50% evenly, equitably and proportionally to every kid in the tank based on how many balls they already own).  Once someone in the tank says "Yeah, I think I'll sell some of my balls for fiat" he places a sell order and it is distributed to the new kid who then gives him the fiat (with a minor txn cost to the dealer).  

The above is a very simplistic explanation, but it allows you a way to hopefully visualize how the system works.

Fundamentally, the conceptual arguments for this type of optimal economic model have been debated across multiple competing theorists as the ONLY sound way to accurately promote trade and commerce.  The only roadblock prior to emunie was that we did NOT have the available tools necessary to truly establish a non-human method of managing the system.

If you have time, I might recommend that you peruse the following link.  This is a debate from 1976 whereby noted economist Henry Hazlitt discusses the problems with the Monetarist's (i.e. Quantity Theory supporters) model of managing a currency with the only available tools at that time:  People

Keep in mind whilst reading for how each of the holes in his argument are effectively negated through the implementation of an emunie ecosystem since the control is now programmed and automated without the reliance on "imperfect information" exchange.

Where the Monetarists Go Wrong
AUGUST 01, 1976 by HENRY HAZLITT
http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/where-the-monetarists-go-wrong#axzz2q6AN0Ku8



RADiX (formerly eMunie): The future of money
Coinonaer
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January 14, 2014, 01:00:08 PM
 #13

Of course is eMunie no scam. But it was a little bit annoying, that you first announce a presale, than stop it.
You would have got around 4-8 Million USD in BTC, LTC or Cash within the 4 weeks time period.
For me Dan is a genius programmer. But I doubt he is a good business man. A little bit like Nikola Tesla….

I just have the fear that Dan after more FUD on him says “OK guys I’m leaving…” and eMunie dies away, because it highly depend at the person Dan.
eMunie stands and falls with him. This should not be the case for a virtual currency.

Anyway, good luck!
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January 17, 2014, 01:01:32 AM
 #14

disclaimer:

the pinarello used in the video clip for eMunie is set in stage and it is not me.

I have my own opinion about eMunie and the pinarello in the video does not reflect that.

just letting you all know that the eMunie people are not afraid of trickery apparently.

I am not and will never get involved with eMunie.

word for the wise, look out for that kind of people they arent affraid to do anything

the real pinarello
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January 17, 2014, 01:15:39 AM
 #15

Fuserleer, I have sent you several PMs and email starting from the 27th of December and still have not received any reply.
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January 29, 2014, 08:29:20 AM
 #16

For all who still doubt there is a working beta:

http://forum.emunie.com/index.php?/topic/1339-ob1-whats-in-and-whats-not-saturday-1st-feb-2014/

and

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=437805.0

No need to invest, just try it on your own on feb., 1st and get your opinion about it. If anyone still thinks, its a scam, well you dont have to go for it then. In any case, this proves leo/coassackman, however he is calling himself now, wrong in one of his accusations. Have fun with the beta!

Hansen

You want less fees? - You want a stable currency? - You want a fair distribution of raised funds? - You want anonymous transactions and communication? - You want so much more that doesn't fit in this line and will look crappy when writing it down because it will just be so much? - JOIN RADIX!
Co- Founder of Radix http://www.radix.global
Ix
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January 29, 2014, 08:39:02 AM
 #17

No need to invest, just try it on your own on feb., 1st and get your opinion about it. If anyone still thinks, its a scam, well you dont have to go for it then.

I don't know what Leo's accusations are, but an open beta of closed source software does not prove much more than a client exists on top of a proprietary protocol.

Based on Peachy's description it also relies on external data (fiat trades) to manage its economic system. That raises the serious question of who controls that data?
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January 30, 2014, 11:15:25 AM
 #18

They should ban eMunie from BTT.

emunie  has nothing to do with crypto, this is just a company owned by 1 person and 50 investors, this is not the way crypto should evolve


let them move to Ihub and nasdaq.


I'm pretty sure you're stupid.

I am not so stupid after all.

Emunie ltd. Or the total capitulation with the governments and laws, the complete surrender. (ripple all over) centralized as hell with only one dictator CEO Dan Hughes.

Like I said they should ban fusseleer for life. He lied from day one more than a year now to dedicated helpers and beta testers that were by his side day in day out, now he stabbing them a knife in the back by solely listing emunie as a company, no need to say all the consequences that come with that.

Dan Hughes in his eyes everyone and everything that don’t share his opinion is retarded looking down on average people, arrogance itself.
I hope for all them who dedicated one year of their life to test and help developing emunie that Hughes gets what he deserves (karma is a bitch you know).
MsCollec
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January 30, 2014, 11:39:04 AM
 #19

Emule another heartbroken and cry baby. You don't like eMu or Dan don't invest. Your biased opinion doesn't count
Fuserleer
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January 31, 2014, 04:49:34 PM
 #20

They should ban eMunie from BTT.

emunie  has nothing to do with crypto, this is just a company owned by 1 person and 50 investors, this is not the way crypto should evolve


let them move to Ihub and nasdaq.


I'm pretty sure you're stupid.

I am not so stupid after all.

Emunie ltd. Or the total capitulation with the governments and laws, the complete surrender. (ripple all over) centralized as hell with only one dictator CEO Dan Hughes.

Like I said they should ban fusseleer for life. He lied from day one more than a year now to dedicated helpers and beta testers that were by his side day in day out, now he stabbing them a knife in the back by solely listing emunie as a company, no need to say all the consequences that come with that.

Dan Hughes in his eyes everyone and everything that don’t share his opinion is retarded looking down on average people, arrogance itself.
I hope for all them who dedicated one year of their life to test and help developing emunie that Hughes gets what he deserves (karma is a bitch you know).

Please go and find a bridge to troll some Billy goats, they are getting lonely without you....

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