Ethereum: 2nd gen cryptocurrency with contract programming, "dagger" hashing

[superresistant]

This turned to a debate of how to make a coin launch fair ? What is fairness is the first place ? Can money be fair at all ?
After some quick research, it appear that fairness is related to social justice.
Is it the role of cryptocurrency to solve inequity ? Can a cryptocurrency bring social justice ?
Aren't you guys trying to solve the impossible ?

As an investor, you're looking to gain something from your investment, not for it to depreciate.
As the things stand currently - looks like there's a lot of risk that you won't gain.

Yes that's the problem : the more you try to make a coin fair (which is impossible IMO), the less interesting it is for investors.

What we have here is a complicated coin repartition that aim for fairness in the long term.

[LiQio]

That does sound very scammy from NXT. I haven't followed the 'NXT' stuff though.

That sounds very snapshoty from you, given the fact that you (I quote) "haven't followed NXT stuff"

[superresistant]

That does sound very scammy from NXT. I haven't followed the 'NXT' stuff though.

That sounds very snapshoty from you, given the fact that you (I quote) "haven't followed NXT stuff"

Talking about Nxt. The coin launch was very unfair according to most of people but it doesn't stop the currency from succeeding (until now).

[BitcoinForumator]

This turned to a debate of how to make a coin launch fair ? What is fairness is the first place ? Can money be fair at all ?
After some quick research, it appear that fairness is related to social justice.
Is it the role of cryptocurrency to solve inequity ? Can a cryptocurrency bring social justice ?
Aren't you guys trying to solve the impossible ?

As an investor, you're looking to gain something from your investment, not for it to depreciate.
As the things stand currently - looks like there's a lot of risk that you won't gain.

Yes that's the problem : the more you try to make a coin fair (which is impossible IMO), the less interesting it is for investors.

What we have here is a complicated coin repartition that aim for fairness in the long term.

But it looks "super fair" for the founders.

[organizer]

So, as a novice hobbyist, I am still very interested in this coin (?), so i'll throw this out there. In business you're often asked to prepare and give someone the "elevator pitch", which might be about 30 seconds worth of bullet points. So someone give this to me, what is the "elevator pitch" for this coin?

Is it a bitcoin killer? What does it do that other coins don't (is it the notion that you can leverage mining power into real-world applications/computations?)

[lonsharim]

So, as a novice hobbyist, I am still very interested in this coin (?), so i'll throw this out there. In business you're often asked to prepare and give someone the "elevator pitch", which might be about 30 seconds worth of bullet points. So someone give this to me, what is the "elevator pitch" for this coin?

Is it a bitcoin killer? What does it do that other coins don't (is it the notion that you can leverage mining power into real-world applications/computations?)

I am interested in understanding this myself. It looks like the most talked aspect of the coin is the issuance, the IPO/fundraiser + mining + founder stakes make this the first PoW IPO. It's an attempt to ensure that coin distribution is more spread out and over the years the percentage held by large addresses should diminish. Lock-in for founders makes this slightly different from pump-and-dump - i.e. devs have a vested interest for at least 12 months, also the algo is claimed to be ASIC resistant (I think) thus giving smaller people like us a chance to mine something and thereby increasing the chances of a distributed environment. There are several other features that are listed but we haven't seen them implemented by any of the second generation coins, for example colored coins, decentralized exchanges, sub currencies, contracts and so on.

If you participate in the fund raiser you are essentially accepting that these features will be implemented sometime in the future, thus endowing good faith in the devs led by a couple of known cryptographers based on their protocol philosophy. How much you buy will be entirely based on your risk appetite keeping these factors in mind.

[ctenc001]

I'm not getting then verification email. Any help?

[instacalm]

2014/01/16 16:12:18 Starting Ethereum
2014/01/16 16:12:18 Mining started
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Go Client working fine on OS X Mavericks

[tgerring]

So, as a novice hobbyist, I am still very interested in this coin (?), so i'll throw this out there. In business you're often asked to prepare and give someone the "elevator pitch", which might be about 30 seconds worth of bullet points. So someone give this to me, what is the "elevator pitch" for this coin?

Is it a bitcoin killer? What does it do that other coins don't (is it the notion that you can leverage mining power into real-world applications/computations?)

It's hard to give an elevator pitch on a technology that is a step abstracted from Bitcoin when people don't properly understand Bitcoin in the first place... but I'll try for those interested in investing but not in reading the research material (which seems to be the de-facto status of forum trolls).

Imagine the underlying technological accomplishments of Bitcoin (distributed consensus) were abstracted away such that ANY mathematical expression could be expressed & evaluated by the network. In addition to a more complete scripting language, these scripts/programs/bots/entities would live in a "contract" and have access to memory locations and ability to interact with other transactions themselves.

What you end up with is a way to design nearly any legal/financial agreement which can interact with other contracts and accomplish hugely complex and automated tasks secured by the network at large. What you can accomplish with the contracts/memory construct is essentially only limited by your imagination and funds available (since contracts require fee inputs).

What are some examples of what these contracts could do?

• Sub-currencies
• Financial derivatives
• Identity and Reputation Systems
• Decentralized Autonomous Organizations
• Savings wallets
• Crop insurance
• decentrally managed data feed
• Smart multisignature escrow
• Peer-to-peer gambling
• on-chain stock market
• on-chain decentralized marketplace
• Decentralized Dropbox

I highly recommend everyone read the white paper several times if they're interested in this project, whether as investors or technologists (or both!)

[keepwalking1234]

Ursium, any chance of a dedicated client? Everything went fine up to the gmp install, but I don't think my ethereum install went as planned.

Hello swartzfeger, what do you mean by 'dedicated' client?

can we have a window's client, thanks very much!

[td services]

So, as a novice hobbyist, I am still very interested in this coin (?), so i'll throw this out there. In business you're often asked to prepare and give someone the "elevator pitch", which might be about 30 seconds worth of bullet points. So someone give this to me, what is the "elevator pitch" for this coin?

Is it a bitcoin killer? What does it do that other coins don't (is it the notion that you can leverage mining power into real-world applications/computations?)

It's hard to give an elevator pitch on a technology that is a step abstracted from Bitcoin when people don't properly understand Bitcoin in the first place... but I'll try for those interested in investing but not in reading the research material (which seems to be the de-facto status of forum trolls).

Imagine the underlying technological accomplishments of Bitcoin (distributed consensus) were abstracted away such that ANY mathematical expression could be expressed & evaluated by the network. In addition to a more complete scripting language, these scripts/programs/bots/entities would live in a "contract" and have access to memory locations and ability to interact with other transactions themselves.

What you end up with is a way to design nearly any legal/financial agreement which can interact with other contracts and accomplish hugely complex and automated tasks secured by the network at large. What you can accomplish with the contracts/memory construct is essentially only limited by your imagination and funds available (since contracts require fee inputs).

What are some examples of what these contracts could do?

• Sub-currencies
• Financial derivatives
• Identity and Reputation Systems
• Decentralized Autonomous Organizations
• Savings wallets
• Crop insurance
• decentrally managed data feed
• Smart multisignature escrow
• Peer-to-peer gambling
• on-chain stock market
• on-chain decentralized marketplace
• Decentralized Dropbox

I highly recommend everyone read the white paper several times if they're interested in this project, whether as investors or technologists (or both!)

Thanks! This is an excellent, concise, and accurate summary of the project.

[td services]

I just had another thought (or way to look at my eth investment decision personally):

If my assumption (argued 3 posts above) that IPO price will be "exactly right" holds, it doesn't matter from my individual perspective wether I invest in the IPO phase or buy ETH on the market right after it ends. The only difference this makes is where my invested BTC go. In the former case they go to the ethereum development fund, in the latter they go to a genesis investor.

So if some people here are envious toward the founders getting control over too much money, they can just buy ETH on the market after the ipo instead of investing during the ipo phase.

I'm guessing I'll do a little bit of everything regarding investing into ethereum:

• invest in ipo phase
• buy on market after ipo phase
• mine

side-note: This is not your average alt-coin and everything I looked at and thought about regarding ethereum so far is well thought-through. This thing is filled with innovation and I think it can provide an exceedingly fertile ground for further innovation and positive change in our world.

I'll be heavily investing in ETH, hadn't really thought of mining 'til now. Any thoughts on an optimal rig for ETH? Your investment analysis is very informative, by the way.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Repost. Could anyone give an answer?

From http://wiki.ethereum.org/index.php/Dagger:

...In the context of mining, however, botnet-infected computers tend to be running older operating systems and have weaker specifications, meaning that they will have a much lower performance and impact on the network than their size might initially suggest.

...
...
...

...And even in such an equilibrium, mining with ordinary CPUs will likely continue to be practical.

So we have such a formula for mining power:

numberOfZombieComputers * X = numberOfLegitMiners



Question:

What is ur assessment of X value?

[swartzfeger]

Ursium, any chance of a dedicated client? Everything went fine up to the gmp install, but I don't think my ethereum install went as planned.

Hello swartzfeger, what do you mean by 'dedicated' client?

An app that installs with a single click. Basically, a gui-front end for the console.

[jimhsu]

I just had another thought (or way to look at my eth investment decision personally):

If my assumption (argued 3 posts above) that IPO price will be "exactly right" holds, it doesn't matter from my individual perspective wether I invest in the IPO phase or buy ETH on the market right after it ends. The only difference this makes is where my invested BTC go. In the former case they go to the ethereum development fund, in the latter they go to a genesis investor.

So if some people here are envious toward the founders getting control over too much money, they can just buy ETH on the market after the ipo instead of investing during the ipo phase.

I'm guessing I'll do a little bit of everything regarding investing into ethereum:

• invest in ipo phase
• buy on market after ipo phase
• mine

side-note: This is not your average alt-coin and everything I looked at and thought about regarding ethereum so far is well thought-through. This thing is filled with innovation and I think it can provide an exceedingly fertile ground for further innovation and positive change in our world.

I'll be heavily investing in ETH, hadn't really thought of mining 'til now. Any thoughts on an optimal rig for ETH? Your investment analysis is very informative, by the way.

VPSes with a lot of memory, or GPUs with a LOT of memory (hundreds of GB). Come to think of it, amazon EC2 instances may be almost ideal (good amount of CPU power, plenty of RAM, etc)

According to the wiki, GPU power hardly matters -- what matters is how much memory you can fit on your board. Most consumer grade equipment caps out at 64 or 128GB (I don't imagine even enthusiasts having more than 32GB on their computers, which I do have)

[td services]

I'll be heavily investing in ETH, hadn't really thought of mining 'til now. Any thoughts on an optimal rig for ETH? Your investment analysis is very informative, by the way.

VPSes with a lot of memory, or GPUs with a LOT of memory (hundreds of GB). Come to think of it, amazon EC2 instances may be almost ideal (good amount of CPU power, plenty of RAM, etc)

So it sounds like a memory coin. Wonder if memory bandwidth is a factor or just memory quantity.  Protoshares is throttled by bandwidth beyond 4 or 8 gb.

[LeoC]

What are some examples of what these contracts could do?

• Sub-currencies
• Financial derivatives
• Identity and Reputation Systems
• Decentralized Autonomous Organizations
• Savings wallets
• Crop insurance
• decentrally managed data feed
• Smart multisignature escrow
• Peer-to-peer gambling
• on-chain stock market
• on-chain decentralized marketplace
• Decentralized Dropbox

You forgot:
Viruses
Malware
Adware
Keyloggers
Scam contracts
Wallet stealers

This is the human race we are talking about after all.

[achillez]

so this goes live in 8 days?

[organizer]

so this goes live in 8 days?

I don't know that this has been answered, I think at the least the IPO begins (60 days), I don't know if it will be mineable at this point though.

[BTCbull]

I'm glad to be part of what seems to be the next big thing