Ethereum: 2nd gen cryptocurrency with contract programming, "dagger" hashing

[utopianfuture]

Mentioning no names but the people that tend to criticize others for greed have already made ALOT of money on other coins like NXT (at the cost of other later buyers ultimately) If you don't like greed I've posted my NXT address to prove how much you don't like it.....otherwise give others a chance that they had and took.



NXT:   14058662050366623641

Greed is good. Greed makes this world function.

[hyunsookmom]

Mentioning no names but the people that tend to criticize others for greed have already made ALOT of money on other coins like NXT (at the cost of other later buyers ultimately) If you don't like greed I've posted my NXT address to prove how much you don't like it.....otherwise give others a chance that they had and took.



NXT:   14058662050366623641

Greed is good. Greed makes this world function.

Agreed, but I don't think we need to use the word greed when trying to make money generally. How about self interest, striving to achieve, striving to be a success, how about trying to provide for your loved ones....

[utopianfuture]

Mentioning no names but the people that tend to criticize others for greed have already made ALOT of money on other coins like NXT (at the cost of other later buyers ultimately) If you don't like greed I've posted my NXT address to prove how much you don't like it.....otherwise give others a chance that they had and took.



NXT:   14058662050366623641

Greed is good. Greed makes this world function.

Agreed, but I don't think we need to use the word greed when trying to make money generally. How about self interest, striving to achieve, striving to be a success, how about trying to provide for your loved ones....

That's famous quote from the movie "Wall Street". I am just paraphrasing   don't need to hide the brutal truth.

[hyunsookmom]

Mentioning no names but the people that tend to criticize others for greed have already made ALOT of money on other coins like NXT (at the cost of other later buyers ultimately) If you don't like greed I've posted my NXT address to prove how much you don't like it.....otherwise give others a chance that they had and took.



NXT:   14058662050366623641

Greed is good. Greed makes this world function.

Agreed, but I don't think we need to use the word greed when trying to make money generally. How about self interest, striving to achieve, striving to be a success, how about trying to provide for your loved ones....

That's famous quote from the movie "Wall Street". I am just paraphrasing   don't need to hide the brutal truth.

hehe yeah I know...Lunch is for wimps..

[msin]

looks like it's back to the drawing board for ethereum and I think they'll have to delay their launch
they'can't go full PoW like they planned cos 100% PoW dagger is flawed
http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/ethereum-dagger-pow-is-flawed/
vitalik aknowledged this and is now looking for solutions...and funny enough the solution is more than likely to be PoS
http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1vh94e/dagger_updates/
and to sort it out he's trying to get the n.1 expert on PoS = Sunny King.

Ouch, that's not good.

[klee]

looks like it's back to the drawing board for ethereum and I think they'll have to delay their launch
they'can't go full PoW like they planned cos 100% PoW dagger is flawed
http://bitslog.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/ethereum-dagger-pow-is-flawed/
vitalik aknowledged this and is now looking for solutions...and funny enough the solution is more than likely to be PoS
http://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/1vh94e/dagger_updates/
and to sort it out he's trying to get the n.1 expert on PoS = Sunny King.

Ouch, that's not good.

BCNext probably enjoy this a lot!

[SyRenity]

That's famous quote from the movie "Wall Street". I am just paraphrasing   don't need to hide the brutal truth.

hehe yeah I know...Lunch is for wimps..

Greed is a good motivator, just need to know when to stop .

[PGPpfKkx]

hi

i have some questions about contracts even if it is way immature right now. i intend to build a service in the future which needs complex contract schemes and i am keeping a close eye to this project,OT and namecoin.

will you be able to have contracts that can be automatically executed/deleted past an expiry date?
can there be code executed( as in some style of actual computer code run from one of the random clients like an http request) in the time the contract will be executed
will you be able to produce a contract with someone but that someone is not aware about it before the contract execution but informed on that date?
can you have encrypted contracts in the blockchain or can everyone can see the contracts in the blockchain?

there is a good list of other features im just exploring how much complexity can your system handle.

thanks

[Ursium]

hi

i have some questions about contracts even if it is way immature right now. i intend to build a service in the future which needs complex contract schemes and i am keeping a close eye to this project,OT and namecoin.

will you be able to have contracts that can be automatically executed/deleted past an expiry date?
can there be code executed( as in some style of actual computer code run from one of the random clients like an http request) in the time the contract will be executed
will you be able to produce a contract with someone but that someone is not aware about it before the contract execution but informed on that date?
can you have encrypted contracts in the blockchain or can everyone can see the contracts in the blockchain?

there is a good list of other features im just exploring how much complexity can your system handle.

thanks

Re: encrypted contracts, you'll have obfuscation but not encryption . Obfuscation will be expensive (because more steps to pay for). You should think at all the contracts being open source instead. It will make for an interesting ecosystem.

[pastet89]

I am bumping my 3 questions:

1. When do mining start?
2. Does CPU mining means that the best mining should be the best PC I can found on the local store?
3. How and when can I buy shares from the IPO?

[msin]

Since Ethereum needs a re-write, how long with the launch be delayed?  Can't be good for the Conference IPO announcement.

[Level Coin]

Why not implement a captcha code which is required at the start of mining?
This would eliminate Botnets rather quickly and not be much of an issue for normal miners.

[td services]

Captcha solvers are pretty cheap, used by Black Hat SEO to post comment spam with programs like Scrapebox. Something like $.01 per captcha is pretty typical. Some even setup web sites just to have visitors solve captchas to sign in, keeping logs of solved captcha images to reuse for auto registration email address to then autoregister into blogs and forums to post spun (automatically rewritten using thesaurus) content and comment spam with backlinks to their money sites or embedded affiliate links.

[Level Coin]

You are assuming the botnet in question has implemented this capability into their malicious software.
Implementing a captcha code prior to mining would be similar to asking for a serial number during product installation.
Sure there will be dedicated hackers that will bypass it, but if it filters even 1 or 2 botnets, then it is worth it.
If we applied your logic to everything then since some people can bypass serial keys during installation, then companies should never use serial keys.
DRM works to some extent, always has and always will. A captcha code aids in eliminating botnets, has little to no cost to implement, and the effects on legitimate miners is negligible.

[SyRenity]

Since Ethereum needs a re-write, how long with the launch be delayed?

Link?

[flower1024]

You are assuming the botnet in question has implemented this capability into their malicious software.
Implementing a captcha code prior to mining would be similar to asking for a serial number during product installation.
Sure there will be dedicated hackers that will bypass it, but if it filters even 1 or 2 botnets, then it is worth it.
If we applied your logic to everything then since some people can bypass serial keys during installation, then companies should never use serial keys.
DRM works to some extent, always has and always will. A captcha code aids in eliminating botnets, has little to no cost to implement, and the effects on legitimate miners is negligible.

i dont really like that idea for two reasons:

1) i hate to type in captchas. and this just seems not appropiate for a currency (just my opinion)
2) if you make it harder for botnets to join you raise the possibility that only a few botnets are able to mine Ethereum: which would increase the risk for attacks - do the opposit: make it as easy as possible to mine this coin and hope you get many different miners and multiple(!) botnets

[Level Coin]

You are assuming the botnet in question has implemented this capability into their malicious software.
Implementing a captcha code prior to mining would be similar to asking for a serial number during product installation.
Sure there will be dedicated hackers that will bypass it, but if it filters even 1 or 2 botnets, then it is worth it.
If we applied your logic to everything then since some people can bypass serial keys during installation, then companies should never use serial keys.
DRM works to some extent, always has and always will. A captcha code aids in eliminating botnets, has little to no cost to implement, and the effects on legitimate miners is negligible.

i dont really like that idea for two reasons:

1) i hate to type in captchas. and this just seems not appropiate for a currency (just my opinion)
2) if you make it harder for botnets to join you raise the possibility that only a few botnets are able to mine Ethereum: which would increase the risk for attacks - do the opposit: make it as easy as possible to mine this coin and hope you get many different miners and multiple(!) botnets

That's a bad idea. One botnet alone would absolutely destroy the ROI for anyone invested in the IPO.
The amount of tears that would flood this forum would be high in quantity, but it still wouldn't be enough to quench the flames of chaos.
How often do you turn your mining off, then on, then off, then on? The captcha would not phase most miners, but it sure will help in deterring botnets.

[Luckybit]

.0001 is an absolutely insane starting price for a coin that will eventually have 1 trillion in circulation.

I am also wondering about the statement in the paper and the expected fundraising volume.

Original:
"Ether will have a theoretical hard cap of 2^128 units (compare 250.9 in BTC), although not more than 2^100 units will be released in the foreseeable future."

2^100 = 1,26 * 10^30 = 1 260 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000.

The issuance rule is like that: 0.0001 BTC for 1 Ether.
If people invest all in all 1000 BTC there will be 10 000 000 Ether from fundraising and 50% of that goes to founders/org + 50% to miners per year. So after 1 year you have 20 mio Ether.
If they get 10k BTC at fundraising -> 200 Mio Ether;
If they get 100k BTC at fundraising (100 mio USD!) -> 2 000 Mio Ether;
If they get 1000k BTC at fundraising (1000 mio USD!) -> 20 000 Mio Ether; But thats very unrealistic (10% of btc market cap)
In that caseFor mining there would be added 10 000 Mio per year, if you count for 100 years thats 1 000 000 Mio = 1*10^12.
So even in a highly unlikely scenario of 1 Mio Btc fundraising there would be only about 10^12 in circulation. So what does "not more than 2^100 units will be released in the foreseeable future" refer to? Or was it just a relict form an older version of a fundraising model or Ether nomination?

This is very clever.  But my,"12 year old" doesn't get it.

I have 10 Btc, which I invest. That gets converted to ether. Ok, the founders/org take half and miners take half. What do I get?  Then after one year, the mined coins are rising at linear inflation of 50%? Who gets those?

Thanks.

I think it's a problem if Ether must be mined. Inflation will take place which will devalue the currency as it's being mined. Inflation should be 0%. In my opinion all the coins that should ever exist should be released at once and if that is not possible then go with Proof of Stake for a certain amount of months or years until Ethereum is popular and widely distributed.

The only problem with PoW is the fact it has to inflate and you have to mine it. The security is good but as you see with Bitshares it's better to avoid PoW. That leaves PoS and PoB and in my opinion the best option is a hybrid of the two.

The problem with setting a hard cap but not releasing it all at once is, you have the same problem as with the federal reserve. Inflation decreases the value so there is no real benefit in going into Ethereum early if you know it's going to have a high rate of inflation and inflate into the trillions of coins.

That is just my opinion. There are advantages to larger numbers for marketing but in my opinion those advantages only make sense if the rate of inflation is very low. Peercoin has a low rate of inflation but has no cap. And with PoB the cap does not even matter anymore because you can destroy the coins to accelerate deflation. If we want to reward the early investors then we want a high rate of deflation and high demand. The total cap is irrelevant.

[Level Coin]

.0001 is an absolutely insane starting price for a coin that will eventually have 1 trillion in circulation.

I am also wondering about the statement in the paper and the expected fundraising volume.

Original:
"Ether will have a theoretical hard cap of 2^128 units (compare 250.9 in BTC), although not more than 2^100 units will be released in the foreseeable future."

2^100 = 1,26 * 10^30 = 1 260 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000.

The issuance rule is like that: 0.0001 BTC for 1 Ether.
If people invest all in all 1000 BTC there will be 10 000 000 Ether from fundraising and 50% of that goes to founders/org + 50% to miners per year. So after 1 year you have 20 mio Ether.
If they get 10k BTC at fundraising -> 200 Mio Ether;
If they get 100k BTC at fundraising (100 mio USD!) -> 2 000 Mio Ether;
If they get 1000k BTC at fundraising (1000 mio USD!) -> 20 000 Mio Ether; But thats very unrealistic (10% of btc market cap)
In that caseFor mining there would be added 10 000 Mio per year, if you count for 100 years thats 1 000 000 Mio = 1*10^12.
So even in a highly unlikely scenario of 1 Mio Btc fundraising there would be only about 10^12 in circulation. So what does "not more than 2^100 units will be released in the foreseeable future" refer to? Or was it just a relict form an older version of a fundraising model or Ether nomination?

This is very clever.  But my,"12 year old" doesn't get it.

I have 10 Btc, which I invest. That gets converted to ether. Ok, the founders/org take half and miners take half. What do I get?  Then after one year, the mined coins are rising at linear inflation of 50%? Who gets those?

Thanks.

I think it's a problem if Ether must be mined. Inflation will take place which will devalue the currency as it's being mined. Inflation should be 0%. In my opinion all the coins that should ever exist should be released at once and if that is not possible then go with Proof of Stake for a certain amount of months or years until Ethereum is popular and widely distributed.

The only problem with PoW is the fact it has to inflate and you have to mine it. The security is good but as you see what Bitshares it's better to avoid PoW. That leaves PoS and PoB and in my opinion the best option is a hybrid of the two.

The problem with setting a hard cap but not releasing it all at once is, you have the same problem as with the federal reserve. Inflation decreases the value so there is no real benefit in going into Ethereum early if you know it's going to have a high rate of inflation and inflate into the trillions of coins.

That is just my opinion. There are advantages to larger numbers for marketing but in my opinion those advantages only make sense if the rate of inflation is very low. Peercoin has a low rate of inflation but has no cap. And with PoB the cap does not even matter anymore because you can destroy the coins to accelerate deflation. If we want to reward the early investors then we want a high rate of deflation and high demand. The total cap is irrelevant.

You pretty much summed Levelcoin up.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422309.0

[Luckybit]

Would it be wise to wait until after the IPO to invest?

This depends on the parameters of the coin. Determine the rate of inflation, the total amount of coins, and the amount of demand. If the rate of inflation is low, the total amount of coins is high, and the demand is high, then it's probably a good investment.

But it all depends on the rate of inflation and since we don't know what that will be we cannot know how good or bad of an investment Ethereum will be at IPO.

You pretty much summed Levelcoin up.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=422309.0

Levelcoin is offering an interesting algorithm with interesting ideas. The main idea is that PoS voting can be used to modulate the rate of deflation for a coin which has a fixed supply.

If the supply is inflating then I'm a bit more skeptical it can work. If the supply is fixed such as if you lock the maximum supply in at the start (0% rate of inflation), then you can deflate your currencies as a way to increase demand and as destroy the coins as the block reward (if you destroy the coins as a block reward then the reward is dispersed to all coin holders like PoS).

These days we are discussing inflation like it's a good thing or like we actually need it. Inflation is a symptom of mining and only serves the purpose of distributing the coins. If you can distribute the coins, secure the network, and avoid inflation, why not?