Ethereum: 2nd gen cryptocurrency with contract programming, "dagger" hashing

[td services]

But this means that the valuation they're raising at is NOT fixed. Since the post-money valuation is 1.5X BTC, and the investors put in X BTC, the pre-money valuation must be 0.5X BTC. But that's not a fixed number: the more interest in the IPO, the higher the resulting valuation they raise money at (in direct linear proportion). If 1000 BTC of money wants to get in, then investors are collectively valuing the existing company at 500 BTC. But if 10,000 BTC wants to get in, then it must mean the company was worth 5,000 BTC initially. That's definitely not the way startups typically raise money, but it is not completely absurd, either. The more VCs that are competing to put money into a startup, the higher the valuation is going to be. The difference here, though, is that all the money doesn't go in at once. Only the people who invest BTC at the very end of the 60-day window will know approximately the actual valuation at which they're investing. The people who invest early on, might think they're getting 1% of the resulting company, but end up only getting 0.1% of the company.

If they chose to, the founders could address this in two ways. One way is to have an explicit pre-money valuation cap, of, say, 5,000 BTC. Then, the founders would receive min (0.5X, 5000) BTC worth of Ether, but they could end up owning less than 1/3 of the company. The other way would be to put a cap on the amount they're willing to raise in the IPO. If they committed to raise no more than 10,000 BTC, then the pre-money valuation is capped at 5,000 BTC, but the founders also guarantee they will still own 1/3 of the resulting company. This would be easy to do: simply return investments once 10,000 BTC had been reached. The benefit of both these approaches is that ALL investors, early and late, know the maximum they are paying for the company.

I do think it would be wise for the founders to do something of this nature, since it strains the imagination that a company which hasn't actually yet launched a product should be worth more than about $10 million (and even by Silicon Valley standards, that's a stretch). There's also a limit to how much and how quickly a large amount of capital could actually be effectively used. If they somehow raise $100M of BTC, it'd be awfully tempting just to split it up and go sit on a beach in a non-extradition country somewhere...  So, just spare yourselves the temptation, guys. :-)

Good points, but the lower cost per share at the beginning of the funding compensates for the additional risk of not knowing the final dilution. It also allows investment at any level. Raising more capital is good as long as it can be put to use by accelerating development with concurrent engineering, so the increased rate of ROI offsets the increased dilution. If there is to be a maximum total investment, a Google style IPO with Dutch Auction makes sense, but it does favor large investors over small ones.

I'm glad this is not a typical SV start-up, since with Ethereum, everyone has a change to enter at the initial seed round in very sall tranches instead of just Angels and VCs in large tranches.

nobody read this massive wall of text

Confirmed.

I did. That's why I use a desktop computer - to READ and LEARN things. Go back to your mobile device, watch Youtube, watch the Tweets come in for the attention-span challenged, and keep up with your Facebook page.

[msin]

crowd funding starts in seven days according to new countdown on website, so I guess some selected people will get 2x coins this week, rest got to wait.

Well that sounds unfair, so I guess it isn't technically an IPO if only a few people can buy

It was my understanding that anyone could take advantage of the 2000 per BTC rate, is that not the case?

AFAIK the minimum investment is 0.1 BTC and anybody with at least that much BTC is free to invest. I haven't seen any restrictions at all, other than a) the deadline is March 31, and b) no more than 30,000 BTC may be invested. So I guess if a few huge whales invest in the first hour of the IPO they could shut it down early by fulfilling the capital requirements, but otherwise the opportunity is open to anybody who wants to take advantage of it.

So how is anyone able to invest and take advantage of the 2000ETH - 1BTC?  I don't see that info posted anywhere.

[Chris180Z]

So, this coin can not be mined? Or this is not a coin at all? Lol, I have read it and still have absolutely no clue what it is. It requires people to invest it in first with a minimum of 0.1 btc? That makes me uneasy, but that's probably just because I do not understand it.

[ddink7]

crowd funding starts in seven days according to new countdown on website, so I guess some selected people will get 2x coins this week, rest got to wait.

Well that sounds unfair, so I guess it isn't technically an IPO if only a few people can buy

It was my understanding that anyone could take advantage of the 2000 per BTC rate, is that not the case?

AFAIK the minimum investment is 0.1 BTC and anybody with at least that much BTC is free to invest. I haven't seen any restrictions at all, other than a) the deadline is March 31, and b) no more than 30,000 BTC may be invested. So I guess if a few huge whales invest in the first hour of the IPO they could shut it down early by fulfilling the capital requirements, but otherwise the opportunity is open to anybody who wants to take advantage of it.

So how is anyone able to invest and take advantage of the 2000ETH - 1BTC?  I don't see that info posted anywhere.

I'm assuming that once the clock reaches zero, there will be a link on their website? I really don't know anything beyond what I've read here and there.

[superresistant]

the second issue is the same  I raised for mastercoin and no one has given an answer
say everything about etherium is true, what is the advantages of owning 1 or 100 if what I am getting is access to a bundle of programable switches.
A clone will just come out with all the switches available for any fraction of a coin, or is near free. For example I don't pay much for the bundle of switches that is javascript to make my gmail function

Yes ! that's what I meant earlier !
What is all that IPO money for if other altcoins do the same services for cheap or even free ??

What are we paying for ? Devs good time ? Drugs & Prostitutes ?

[CoinHeavy]

Vitalik himself has started a post here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428589

[msin]

Vitalik himself has started a post here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428589

Thanks for posting, clears up a lot of things.

[ZeroTheGreat]

What deadlines were broken?

I saw earlier "3 days" in countdown. Btw, I don't have screen, so take it easy. Things like countdown on OP's site look like deadline presented.

[zooitje]

I absolutely trust V Buterin. I've met him once (wich doesn't say anything because it was meaningless). But i trust him as a person. Of course we all do not know if buying ETH is a good thing or smart to do at all. All i know: this is the way he and the team chose to do it. And if i analyse what the offer is... it's pretty damn good if you ask me...

It is always hard to tell, still.... at least i'm holding some BTC ready for the transfer. I've never exchanged BTC to fiat. I've only bought stuff or was holding for the longest time.. But this is the first time i consider exchanging my BTC.

Please help out: Should I?

[MaxOnBit]

is that true ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=431128.0

[Ursium]

is that true ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=431128.0

MaxOnBit, the thread you linked to as been confirmed as a scam.
Do not send money and please report it to the bitcointalk forum by clicking the 'report' button.

[GigaCoin]

huh, i've been trying to get my "Activation email" from the Ethereum official forum since the past 2 weeks, then i forgot about it. Tried today still no luck, anybody got a workaround ?

[Keyser]

huh, i've been trying to get my "Activation email" from the Ethereum official forum since the past 2 weeks, then i forgot about it. Tried today still no luck, anybody got a workaround ?

It took a day but my activation email did arrive.  It looks like the forum is down again and may be closed to new members again.  My guess is it will remain down until after the Miami conference.

[mah87]

ETHEREUM IS A VAPOWARE STEALING IDEAS FROM REAL INNOVATORS LIKE RIPPLE !

[_ingsoc]

This is a x-post from the [ANN]:

I don't normally make these kinds of posts, or even bother with an account, but Bitcointalk has really deteriorated since I first saw it. Half the people on here can't even construct a proper sentence, but for some reason think we should all hear what they have to say, no matter how asinine the crap they shout over and over.

I've got a couple of points, if you care enough to read:

(1) These guys are trying to build something interesting here. They've put thought into it and a lot of energy. You need to learn how to respect someone else's work, even if you disagree with it. If the whole world operated like the people posting on Bitcointalk, we would live in a real-life idiocracy. Take a step back and realise you're just smearing crap on the walls someone else built through hard work - what have you done?

(2) If you do come to the conclusion that you don't like the project, that's fine. Try and make a statement that's rational and move on. People are shouting about devs demanding millions of dollars when nobody is demanding anything, how young Vitalik is when that has zero impact on anything (can't imagine what you were like at 19 - Lord help us), or this totally irrational obsession with premine = bad when the roads you drive on and the water you drink got premined and delivered to your tires and orifices through some type of social organisation.

(3) We don't live in a fantasy world where devs are free. People need to eat and can't develop something as significant as this project over many years without getting paid. The BTC raised will be completely transparent and go to actually making this happen (and that'll be transparent as well). If you knew anything about project development, let alone cryptocurrency development, you would know how incredibly hard it is to find competent developers. They have those and the contacts to get more. In fact, if you did a little bit of research, you would know there's constant activity of totally open code being written on a near daily basis already.

(4) The founders need to have a vested interest, just like developers. They are the ones who will champion this project harder than anyone else. If there's no incentive for them to do so, what's the point? The founders are going to dedicate years of their lives to growing this project and creating value through building something that's novel. Most projects to date have been amateur hour, and the bar is being set pretty high with Ethereum - maybe that explains all the butthurt some people have about it. How about you look into what each of the founders have contributed to this community? I think you'll get a pretty good understanding of how significant this project is for the larger and future ecosystem if you do.

tl;dr Respect someone's hard work, learn to move on if you disagree, understand that making cool things costs money, and look at the bigger picture.

[mah87]

There is no hardwork on stolen ideas. By the way this IPO is probably NOT LEGAL.

THE ONLY THING TRUE IS THAT IT'S UP TO ANYONE TO FUND THIS ILLEGAL SHIT.

[Newmine]

If everything is built and mapped out, why are you asking for funding? Prove and let your ideas work and then ask for money.

[_ingsoc]

There is no hardwork on stolen ideas. By the way this IPO is probably NOT LEGAL.

THE ONLY THING TRUE IS THAT IT'S UP TO ANYONE TO FUND THIS ILLEGAL SHIT.

I'm not involved in this project, so don't interpret my words as support, but can you tell me how someone steals an idea?

If everything is built and mapped out, why are you asking for funding? Prove and let your ideas work and then ask for money.

From what I understand, everything isn't mapped out. They've just done their homework and are pretty good at actually having a plan (a new concept to a lot of projects on Bitcointalk). There is an incredible amount of development to do, and that costs money. You can look at code that's been written, however, on their Github.

[mah87]

There is no hardwork on stolen ideas. By the way this IPO is probably NOT LEGAL.

THE ONLY THING TRUE IS THAT IT'S UP TO ANYONE TO FUND THIS ILLEGAL SHIT.

I'm not involved in this project, so don't interpret my words as support, but can you tell me how someone steals an idea?

If everything is built and mapped out, why are you asking for funding? Prove and let your ideas work and then ask for money.

From what I understand, everything isn't mapped out. They've just done their homework and are pretty good at actually having a plan (a new concept to a lot of projects on Bitcointalk). There is an incredible amount of development to do, and that costs money. You can look at code that's been written, however, on their Github.

RIPPLE is implementing so "new" ideas since more than a year already. But good luck with that illegal "ipo"

[superresistant]

There is no hardwork on stolen ideas. By the way this IPO is probably NOT LEGAL.
THE ONLY THING TRUE IS THAT IT'S UP TO ANYONE TO FUND THIS ILLEGAL SHIT.

I'm not involved in this project, so don't interpret my words as support, but can you tell me how someone steals an idea?

If everything is built and mapped out, why are you asking for funding? Prove and let your ideas work and then ask for money.

From what I understand, everything isn't mapped out. They've just done their homework and are pretty good at actually having a plan (a new concept to a lot of projects on Bitcointalk). There is an incredible amount of development to do, and that costs money. You can look at code that's been written, however, on their Github.

RIPPLE is implementing so "new" ideas since more than a year already. But good luck with that illegal "ipo"

Haha ! Even mah87 opened his eyes on this IPO and understood that it's total bulshit.

You really have no brain if you send any satoshis to Vitalik.

Ethereum is a copy paste of Bitcoin except that you'll be provided a tool that allow you do easily develop on top of the blockchain.

These guys are not going to develop any application. You will have to do it yourself with their tool.

This tool will be for free after the IPO.