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Author Topic: Who else sold out?  (Read 5926 times)
wumpus
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September 04, 2011, 02:33:19 PM
 #21

John Smith: Nothing's changed technically, it's the social aspect surrounding it. Bitcoin's "technically perfect", except in the sense that it's mostly expecting people to be perfect. In that sense, there's still a lot of work to be done.
Yeah that was also my point -- the social aspect hasn't changed either in the two years since the beginning of the project.

People are still new to cryptocurrencies, their advantages, disadvantages, dangers, and so on. There isn't even legal precedent for them yet. These are the very early stages. Way too early to "lose faith" unless your expectations were way overblown.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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OmegaNemesis28
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September 04, 2011, 02:36:58 PM
 #22

Bitcoins haven't been doing too good over the past 3 months or so.

Doesn't mean I'm going to stop. These things happen, it's completely normal for a currency. In fact, one should've expected this when you put your feet in the Bitcoin water. It goes with the territory and shouldn't be something not expected to happen.

Also, for those saying you care more about now than profiting in the future, then you are defeating the definition of investing. And that is what bitcoins are about or any other currency related market. Hell, I find Bitcoins to be more in relation to stocks than currency because it's easier to explain. You don't invest in stocks and expect an instant payout unless you know something other people don't.

I plan on continuing to invest and mine even more than ever. Hell, I'm tempted to go on mtgox right now and buy $200 more worth of bitcoin because it's low. Also, winter is coming so mining is going to be popular too. I'd be mining as much as I can right now but I'm stuck in a college dorm room that is a sauna even with just my laptop yet alone my 6990 rig turned out (not mining mind you).

Bitcoin is still considered fairly new. I look at it as if its in the beta stage if anything. Hell, in my eyes, it just came out of alpha. We're not even at a stable release yet to make any concrete judgement. My two cents. Smiley

Quote
However, it still isn't an investment vehicle. There is a large difference between having faith in bitcoin as technology and faith that the price will increase indefinitely. If the economic crisis taught us anything, it's that the second is certainly not true (for anything) and if that causes you to "sell out" that's a wise choice.

How is it not an investment vehicle?
Just because a particular market crashes, ie the economic crisis, doesn't mean that the market in question was never an "investment vehicle." It proves the opposite, it IS an investment. A market that is invested in has the potential of crashing, therefore if a market crashes the market must be an invested one. Every market out there in existence is an investment vehicle as every market out there has the potential of crashing. Just because it does crash doesn't mean it no longer can be considered a market or never was which is what I think you're claiming.

Bitcoin consists of people buying, selling, or mining bitcoin. USD or any other currency consists of people buying, selling, or working for USD. Stocks consist of people buying, selling, or creating stocks. It's all in the same boat. Investment. Whether you invest in the work behind any of the 3, or buying/selling for any of the 3.

I'm not one for donations but if you must go ahead and I will keep you in mind. =)
http://payb.tc/omeganemesis28
elggawf
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September 04, 2011, 02:44:01 PM
 #23

People are still new to cryptocurrencies, their advantages, disadvantages, dangers, and so on. There isn't even legal precedent for them yet. These are the very early stages. Way too early to "lose faith" unless your expectations were way overblown.

I think a lot of people's expectations were overblown. I've seen at least two people put forth the argument that the government and regulations are what's causing people to be ripped off, and if only those two things would piss off then everyone would conduct business amicably.

Bitcoin's proven, emphatically, the opposite: that given anonymity and zero regulation, the scumbags come out of the woodwork.

^_^
wumpus
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September 04, 2011, 02:44:27 PM
 #24

Bitcoins haven't been doing too good over the past 3 months or so.
The price of bitcoins hasn't been doing too good over the past 3 months. The project itself is doing fine.

Know that a lot of coins are being produced at the moment, so taking into account the laws of supply and demand it somehow makes sense that the price is going down.

(then again, the price is back to apr-june prices around $8, which isn't that bad... there just was an unreasonable hype)

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How is it not an investment vehicle?
Because it is a payment system. Of course you can buy them in large numbers hoping the price will increase, but that was never the idea behind it.  Read the wiki if you question this... it nowhere mentions "investment" or "get rich quick".

I've seen at least two people put forth the argument that the government and regulations are what's causing people to be ripped off
There are people saying that in any community. Yes, the number of anarcho-capitalists, libertarians and conservative-right here is more than average, but there is nothing in the bitcoin source itself that hates governments and regulations. If you know who you do business with, you can sue them if they wrong you, whatever currency you use.

Trust is a very fickle issue, both on and off the internet, nothing will magically solve that.



Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
OmegaNemesis28
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September 04, 2011, 02:50:47 PM
 #25

Bitcoins haven't been doing too good over the past 3 months or so.
The price of bitcoins hasn't been doing too good over the past 3 months. The project itself is doing fine.

Know that a lot of coins are being produced at the moment, so taking into account the laws of supply and demand it somehow makes sense that the price is going down.

(then again, the price is back to apr-june prices around $8, which isn't that bad... there just was an unreasonable hype)

Excuse me, that is what I meant. My apologies.

Quote
Quote
How is it not an investment vehicle?
Because it is a payment system. Of course you can buy them in large numbers hoping the price will increase, but that was never the idea behind it.  Read the wiki if you question this... it nowhere mentions "investment" or "get rich quick".

Investment =/= get rich quick.
Investment is the EXACT opposite. It's putting money into something, in hopes of getting a profit in the FUTURE.

in·vest·mentNoun/inˈves(t)mənt/
1. The action or process of investing money for profit or material result.
2. A thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future.

What do you mean "it is a payment system"? How is that an argument against BTC being an investment vehicle? Any currency that is currently being used as a "payment system" has investments behind it. People invest in USD and EUR for example every day as much as people invest in stocks. Both USD and EUR are payment systems and always have been considered that.

Just because BTC was created as an anonymous currency system does not change the fact that it is a currency and that people invest in currency. You cannot ignore it, especially when people are doing good with it.

I'm not one for donations but if you must go ahead and I will keep you in mind. =)
http://payb.tc/omeganemesis28
elggawf
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September 04, 2011, 02:59:11 PM
 #26

There are people saying that in any community. Yes, the number of anarcho-capitalists, libertarians and conservative-right here is more than average, but there is nothing in the bitcoin source itself that hates governments and regulations. If you know who you do business with, you can sue them if they wrong you, whatever currency you use.

Trust is a very fickle issue, both on and off the internet, nothing will magically solve that.

Yup, I'm agreeing with you there... my point was that I think a lot of people just thought that Bitcoin would prevent the government/regulations from sticking it's filthy hands in the pot, and that that would magically fix everything. I think that's where a lot of the desperation is coming from at the moment, and I'm personally feeling that that's probably playing a part in the price.

I still wholeheartedly believe in it to the extent I ever did - a novel payments system whose participation is entirely voluntary. I suppose I did to an extent get caught up in the investment thing when it looked like it was going skyward - it was awful tough to actually part with any at that time. When I saw the top around $32, I came to my senses - played the market a bit while it was fun, then went back to buying things with it.

Now I don't particularly pay too much attention to the price - if I'm trying to decide if I want to buy something, I look at the price in Bitcoins, and I figure out how long it will take my GPU to mine that much, and work out if it's worth it in my head. The only way I pay attention to price when I'm working out if I'm losing money on electricity by mining them. In no way is Bitcoin disappointing to me when I look at it that way.

^_^
wumpus
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September 04, 2011, 03:00:58 PM
 #27

Investment =/= get rich quick.
Investment is the EXACT opposite. It's putting money into something, in hopes of getting a profit in the FUTURE.
I know.  But it isn't that either. Speculation is the word.

It's more like buying up lots of pork bellies in the hope they will increase in price because the world population is rising and there are a lot of hungry people.

Quote
Just because BTC was created as an anonymous currency system does not change the fact that it is a currency and that people invest in currency. You cannot ignore it, especially when people are doing good with it.
I'm not ignoring it. I'm just sick and tired of people crying wolf every time the price drops, as if the project is dying. This is not like a company stock. More like a commodity that is mass-produced in large quantities.

The only difference with traditional commodities such as metals is that bitcoins are produced at a fixed rate (of 300 per hour), independent of the number of producers.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
Meatpile
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September 04, 2011, 03:22:20 PM
 #28

I'm not ignoring it. I'm just sick and tired of people crying wolf every time the price drops, as if the project is dying. This is not like a company stock. More like a commodity that is mass-produced in large quantities.



Then again... if the price is dropping by 50% because of someone offloading thousands of stolen bitcoins then yeah people should be crying foul and getting the fuck out, no matter how cool the idea is.


Littleshop
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September 04, 2011, 03:32:06 PM
 #29

I'm not ignoring it. I'm just sick and tired of people crying wolf every time the price drops, as if the project is dying. This is not like a company stock. More like a commodity that is mass-produced in large quantities.



Then again... if the price is dropping by 50% because of someone offloading thousands of stolen bitcoins then yeah people should be crying foul and getting the fuck out, no matter how cool the idea is.

Why?  Using that analogy you should dump your dollars and get out of them too.  Cash can be stolen.  Bad people can use it.  Same with bitcoins. 


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September 04, 2011, 03:41:44 PM
 #30

Price is still up significantly compared to where it was in the months before June.

I haven't sold anything and I won't sell anything until prices look good for me. I'm still long. (Years instead of weeks or months) If it doesn't increase in price that's fine, I don't have a whole lot invested, but I'd rather see it through than sell out now.
hugolp
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September 04, 2011, 03:47:17 PM
 #31

Bitcoin's proven, emphatically, the opposite: that given anonymity and zero regulation, the scumbags come out of the woodwork.

Not exactly.

With anoymity and zero regulation the scumbags that did not manage to get into the government try to attack you.

With regulations you have institunialized scams and theft.

At least without regulation you can defend yourself.
Cryptoman
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September 04, 2011, 04:07:17 PM
 #32

Bitcoin's proven, emphatically, the opposite: that given anonymity and zero regulation, the scumbags come out of the woodwork.

Not exactly.

With anoymity and zero regulation the scumbags that did not manage to get into the government try to attack you.

With regulations you have institunialized scams and theft.

At least without regulation you can defend yourself.

I think it's helpful to remember that Bitcoin is an entirely new form of "money" or whatever you want to call it.  We are pioneers conducting a grand experiment to see if a viable economy can be sustained with a pseudo-anonymous, peer-to-peer currency.  I for one think what we are doing is very important, and I'm more than willing to risk the time and money in order to potentially have an economy free of centralized interference. 

In response to the OP's question, I continue to hold onto 50% of all Bitcoins that I mine and exchange the other 50% at the prevailing market rate.  I've recovered the cost of my mining equipment, and I have no need to cash out the remaining coins I hold. 

"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history." --Gandhi
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September 04, 2011, 04:42:58 PM
 #33

I've sold most of my BTC.  I still have a few.  I'm also considering taking any mention of BTC off my websites...soon...
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September 04, 2011, 05:55:52 PM
 #34

Bitcoin isn't going anywhere it's just taken a beating recently but everything has to go through these type of phases!

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September 04, 2011, 06:03:48 PM
 #35

My buy orders look like:
x at $8
2x at $4
4x at $2
8x at $1

That way I can take advantage of the price drop, no matter how low it goes.

madpay.com · btckink.com
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September 04, 2011, 07:59:35 PM
 #36

My buy orders look like:
x at $8
2x at $4
4x at $2
8x at $1

That way I can take advantage of the price drop, no matter how low it goes.

How much will you sell those for when exchanges trade @ 0.00xxx?

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September 04, 2011, 08:03:40 PM
 #37

My buy orders look like:
x at $8
2x at $4
4x at $2
8x at $1

That way I can take advantage of the price drop, no matter how low it goes.

How much will you sell those for when exchanges trade @ 0.00xxx?

What do you mean? Obviously when I want to sell, I'll sell at whatever the exchange rate is. If your point is that Bitcoin might not work out, I agree, but after a lot of consideration it's a risk I'm willing to take.

madpay.com · btckink.com
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September 04, 2011, 09:03:10 PM
 #38

I sold out my dollars to buy Bitcoins. I was sick of this...

aq
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September 04, 2011, 09:21:18 PM
 #39

I've pretty much been spending what I mine/earn as soon as something comes up that I want and can afford lately. I'm much more interested in what it can get me now than how rich it could possibly make me sometime in the future.

It is great to have people like you, because you guys produce some cool stories.
One of the best example is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=137.0
dayfall
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September 04, 2011, 09:46:20 PM
 #40

Lost faith? No.
Sold? yes.

Actually, I want to buy some things with the Bitcoins I mine, but I would rather keep the USD so I can buy back in later.
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