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Author Topic: Who else sold out?  (Read 5916 times)
Are-you-a-wizard?
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September 04, 2011, 09:31:10 AM
 #1

This is not a troll thread. I ask a simple question, if you start spewing crap about this being a troll thread then you are the troll. This is a legitimate question and I see no reason why it doesn't have a place on this forum.

How many of you guys have lost faith in Bitcoin and sold almost all of yours?
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September 04, 2011, 10:02:51 AM
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This is not a troll thread. I ask a simple question, if you start spewing crap about this being a troll thread then you are the troll. This is a legitimate question and I see no reason why it doesn't have a place on this forum.

How many of you guys have lost faith in Bitcoin and sold almost all of yours?

Bitcoin technology is so appealing and addicting I can't possibly imagine "loosing faith". In fact, it's not about "faith", it's about understanding the underlying technology and intrinsic advantages.
payb.tc
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September 04, 2011, 10:05:28 AM
 #3

This is not a troll thread. I ask a simple question, if you start spewing crap about this being a troll thread then you are the troll. This is a legitimate question and I see no reason why it doesn't have a place on this forum.

How many of you guys have lost faith in Bitcoin and sold almost all of yours?

Bitcoin technology is so appealing and addicting I can't possibly imagine "loosing faith". In fact, it's not about "faith", it's about understanding the underlying technology and intrinsic advantages.

likewise. i'm selling quite a few at the moment (see market), but i'm as keen as ever on bitcoins. will be buying back in as soon as i can, even if that means doing it at a higher rate.
Alex Zee
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September 04, 2011, 10:09:03 AM
 #4

Bitcoin technology is so appealing...

Yeah, this is where it's a problem for me. As I've posted here already, I have major concerns about scalability of BitCoin, so I don't find the technology so "appealing".
I find the idea appealing, but not the current implementation.

I can't say I lost all faith, but I have a strong feeling that BitCoin is dying (not to spread FUD or anything)...


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September 04, 2011, 10:18:59 AM
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Bitcoin technology is so appealing...
Yeah, this is where it's a problem for me. As I've posted here already, I have major concerns about scalability of BitCoin, so I don't find the technology so "appealing".
I find the idea appealing, but not the current implementation.

Scalability concerns have been very well addressed here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability (AFAIK by google employee).

I can't say I lost all faith, but I have a strong feeling that BitCoin is dying (not to spread FUD or anything)...

What really, fundamentally matters is the infrastructure (exchanges, merchant solutions, businesses accepting Bitcoins, ...). This area is stronger than ever. Just have a look how SilkRoad is flourishing Wink
Alex Zee
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September 04, 2011, 10:41:41 AM
 #6

Scalability concerns have been very well addressed here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability (AFAIK by google employee).
anything)...

Quote
Shifting 60 gigabytes of data in, say, 60 seconds means an average rate of 1 gigabyte per second, or 8 gigabits per second.

Yeah, that's comforting...

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defxor
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September 04, 2011, 10:57:40 AM
 #7

Quote
Shifting 60 gigabytes of data in, say, 60 seconds means an average rate of 1 gigabyte per second, or 8 gigabits per second.
Yeah, that's comforting...

No, but one proposed solution is:

Quote
Bandwidth
The network costs of distributing blocks can be minimized by changing the protocol to send blocks as a header plus a list of hashes. Because nodes are very likely to have already seen a transaction when it was first broadcast, this means the size of a block to download would be trivial (80 bytes + 32 bytes per transaction). If a node didn't see a transaction broadcast, it can ask the connected node to provide it.
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September 04, 2011, 11:20:47 AM
 #8

I can't say I lost all faith, but I have a strong feeling that BitCoin is dying (not to spread FUD or anything)...

Quote
Shifting 60 gigabytes of data in, say, 60 seconds means an average rate of 1 gigabyte per second, or 8 gigabits per second.

So, Bitcoin could have scaling issues in a scenario unlikely to happen within a decade at least, assuming development is being halted today.
Well, that is spreading FUD.
Exonumia
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September 04, 2011, 11:22:33 AM
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How many of you guys have lost faith in Bitcoin and sold almost all of yours?

You can sell em?
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September 04, 2011, 11:26:06 AM
 #10

How many of you guys have lost faith in Bitcoin and sold almost all of yours?

I think, the latter sums it up quite well: "sold almost all of yours"

If you really lost faith in btc, why not sell all? Because you still believe that there might be more coming. And that is the opposite of losing faith.

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
Alex Zee
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September 04, 2011, 11:29:15 AM
 #11

Quote
...Because nodes are very likely to have already seen a transaction when it was first broadcast...

So transactions still need to be distributed from every node to all others. That's not a solution.


Scalability concerns have been very well addressed here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Scalability

Actually, after reading it I think scalability concerns are addressed very poorly there.

They propose all sorts of tactical ways to affect K in the "K*n2" formula, while tip-toeing around the strategic issue of n2.
The K is irrelevant, that's why we have the big-O notation.

It seems to me that so long as there is a single chain of all transactions, the system is not scalable, super-nodes or no super-nodes.
Because workload is not spread between super-nodes, but rather duplicated and in the end every (super)node has to process ALL transactions in the world...


Ok, I don't want to hijack the thread, sorry Smiley
I will shut up now.

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.


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September 04, 2011, 11:35:32 AM
 #12

Bitcoin technology is so appealing and addicting I can't possibly imagine "loosing faith". In fact, it's not about "faith", it's about understanding the underlying technology and intrinsic advantages.

+1 As long as developers are still working on improving bitcoin, I see no reason to turn away.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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September 04, 2011, 12:47:49 PM
 #13

How many of you guys have lost faith in Bitcoin and sold almost all of yours?

I wouldn't say I've "lost faith", but I do believe the market is terribly overvalued based on fundamentals, so I keep almost all my money in USD instead of BTC.  My goal from the start was to have a payment network, not a speculative investment asset, so I can't say I'm torn up about it.  To those looking to get rich quick, good luck, but I wouldn't bet my net worth on it.

      War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.  --Ambrose Bierce
Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks economics.  --Revalin 165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
defxor
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September 04, 2011, 12:56:10 PM
 #14

My goal from the start was to have a payment network, not a speculative investment asset

+1

Getting the get-rich speculators out of the spotlight is only good for Bitcoin at the moment. Less focus on whether it's a pyramid/ponzi and more focus on what it actually brings to the table.

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September 04, 2011, 01:04:07 PM
 #15

This is not a troll thread. I ask a simple question, if you start spewing crap about this being a troll thread then you are the troll. This is a legitimate question and I see no reason why it doesn't have a place on this forum.

How many of you guys have lost faith in Bitcoin and sold almost all of yours?

I'm not holding and I've withdrawn my trading funds from the exchanges.

If ever I need bitcoins, I'll buy exactly what I need and spend it immediately.

tips: 14Z1Bwa8bgEWphjD2qqaXMTY9ucutwuTw8
elggawf
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September 04, 2011, 01:44:00 PM
 #16

I've pretty much been spending what I mine/earn as soon as something comes up that I want and can afford lately. I'm much more interested in what it can get me now than how rich it could possibly make me sometime in the future.

^_^
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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September 04, 2011, 01:53:13 PM
 #17

I just consider this an interesting experiment. a bit raw and loose, might make a few bucks, might loose em, but entertaining all the way.

I should add this: I also run folding@home, and that rig draws 650 watts and has no tangible (to me at this moment) reward. just the warm fuzzies that Im helping advance medical research. might help me personally in the future, maybe not.

now, bitcoins have made me a couple hundred bucks (after power costs) but has not quite paid for what Ive put into it.
but I also have to consider Im contributing to an economics  (probably a better term can be used here) and, to a point, social experiment. that in itself is worth taking part of.

so, making money or not Ill be part of this for a while. I try to stash 1/3 of my coins in an offline wallet (just in case it takes off big time), and spread the rest around.
Revalin
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September 04, 2011, 02:10:39 PM
 #18

but I also have to consider Im contributing to an economics  (probably a better term can be used here) and, to a point, social experiment. that in itself is worth taking part of.

+1.  This is why I'm still here.  I want to see where this goes.

I'm still mining, even though it's only roughly breaking even for me, and even though I'm just selling off the proceeds.  I'm not willing to put fiat currency into the system right now (for the reasons I've mentioned before), but I don't withdraw my fiat either, and I trade back to BTC whenever I want to use it.

Even if BC doesn't succeed in the long run, we are pioneering a new economy.  The next system will benefit from what we've learned.

      War is God's way of teaching Americans geography.  --Ambrose Bierce
Bitcoin is the Devil's way of teaching geeks economics.  --Revalin 165YUuQUWhBz3d27iXKxRiazQnjEtJNG9g
wumpus
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September 04, 2011, 02:16:32 PM
 #19

Why would anyone "lose faith"? What has changed, that made you have "faith" months ago, but not now anymore?

Very little has changed technically; if anything, the client code was improved, the block chain is somewhat longer, and a lot of transactions have been successfully handled.

However, it still isn't an investment vehicle. There is a large difference between having faith in bitcoin as technology and faith that the price will increase indefinitely. If the economic crisis taught us anything, it's that the second is certainly not true (for anything) and if that causes you to "sell out" that's a wise choice.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
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September 04, 2011, 02:24:18 PM
 #20

Even if BC doesn't succeed in the long run, we are pioneering a new economy.  The next system will benefit from what we've learned.

My chief objection to your last statement is that much of what we've learned, we only had to re-learn it because we disregarded the learnings of the last few centuries of economics.

Things like banks making loans, with no collateral to mostly-anonymous parties in a currency that has "non recoverable" as one of it's drawing points is fraught with fraud? Whodathunkit?

The really exciting part is the inflation/deflation part of things, which we're not truly going to get to the meat-and-potatoes (zero inflation, ever) of for a long while to come yet. The predictable inflation thing is still there now and is still interesting, but the results are mostly predictable.

So it's not really that interesting from an economics standpoint, I think (except watching the people who are convinced it'll be different this time come to the soul-crushing realization it won't be) but it certainly is from a social standpoint. A currency that exists solely based on voluntary participation and still has a functioning (though tiny) market is kind of cool regardless of what happens.

John Smith: Nothing's changed technically, it's the social aspect surrounding it. Bitcoin's "technically perfect", except in the sense that it's mostly expecting people to be perfect. In that sense, there's still a lot of work to be done.

^_^
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