eToro launches Bitcoin trade

[Thom]

Had a very bad experience so far with ETORO.. Although admittedly in some part due to me diving in and not reading anything

I setup an account uploaded $50, attempted to buy some Bitcoin, at which point I realised that ETORO is essentially just a spread-betting CFD platform. I am now trying to withdraw the $50 and close my account but I can't until I've completed the ID verification and Money Laundering checks...This page constantly errors out and I'm stuck now speaking to some drone in their support center who keeps pointing me back to the withdraw funds guide!! Massive waste of time!

Hi

I'm sorry you feel that way, we have no attention to misleading our clients.
Could you please PM you'r user in eToro and i will help?

Amos
eToro

In the interest of balance, I can now confirm that an EToro representative has contacted me and confirmed that they will refund my balance and close my account. I just got very nervous taking this any further for fear that I may end up owing more than I put in...I'm no expert on CFD but I was warned that there are risks you can end up owing more due to margin calls. TBH as soon as I discovered that I will not be holding any BTC I lost interest!

I'm having precisely the same problem with etoro: funds in, account locked, can't withdraw/trade/anything, ID upload nonfunctional.

[Bitcoinpro]

so they are trying to trap you in Fiat and you can never get any coin of them 

[franky1]

so they are trying to trap you in Fiat and you can never get any coin of them 

yep, you cannot withdraw actual bitcoins from them.. you just

follow Bitcoin investors from all around the world

which is

similair to holding bitcoin at any bitcoin exchange.

but without actually holding or owning any actual bitcoin.

untill e-toro actually allow you to withdraw the currencies you "buy" and "sell" it is purely a gambling service based on FIAT use. true bitcoin fans should stick to true bitcoin exchanges until e-toro adds bitcoin withdrawals.

[Cryddit]

As far as I can see, the service on EToro is this:

1) You can sell your fiat currency for bitcoin.  (at some price they get when trading just four times a day)
2) You can sell your bitcoin for the exact same fiat currency. (also at some price they get when trading just four times a day)

And that is the whole of the service.  Additional services that most people on this forum expect and whose absence is threatening or confusing to them (prompting them to yell "SCAM!" when they don't find these services) are:

1) You can send your bitcoins from your EToro account to a merchant address to buy things for Bitcoins.
2) You can send your bitcoins from your EToro account to your own wallet with your own key so EToro is not involved with them any more.
3) You can buy other assets available on EToro directly with Bitcoins instead of paying fees twice for conversion to fiat and then to other asset.
4) You can send your bitcoins to a cryptocurrency exchange where you could use them to buy litecoins etc.
5) You can send bitcoins you've already obtained from elsewhere (for example by selling goods for bitcoins) to your EToro wallet.  
6) You can exchange bitcoins in both directions, at will, for *any* fiat currency from around the world (forex trading).  

So, as far as the community's expectations about services offered, they offer about one-third of the services of a regular Bitcoin account you could get anywhere else. And that's kind of a problem.

On the plus side, they are compliant with financial regs, have a good legal staff, and lots of other assets (including reputation) to protect, so they're unlikely to disappear overnight or have their (your) assets disappear in a government seizure.  Also on the plus side, they are well experienced in network security due to their existing business and aren't very likely to get hacked either.  

[alani123]

Gut

[bitpop]

They are saying they do hold bitcoins so this is good for traders. Very easy, no security risk and a very compliant exchange. As long as they hold the right amount of bitcoins at all times, I approve.

Though they have a great chance at becoming a real exchange this point with timing and their brand bought them this much time.

[FrictionlessCoin]

They are saying they do hold bitcoins so this is good for traders. Very easy, no security risk and a very compliant exchange. As long as they hold the right amount of bitcoins at all times, I approve.

Though they have a great chance at becoming a real exchange this point with timing and their brand bought them this much time.

Do you honestly think that MtGox has all the bitcoins that its customers have deposited?

If eToro wants to fake that they have bitcoin then that means they are equivalently going short on those bitcoins.  That is a massive risk that I am sure any exchange will not take.

[yoniassia]

As far as I can see, the service on EToro is this:

1) You can sell your fiat currency for bitcoin.  (at some price they get when trading just four times a day)
2) You can sell your bitcoin for the exact same fiat currency. (also at some price they get when trading just four times a day)

And that is the whole of the service.  Additional services that most people on this forum expect and whose absence is threatening or confusing to them (prompting them to yell "SCAM!" when they don't find these services) are:

1) You can send your bitcoins from your EToro account to a merchant address to buy things for Bitcoins.
2) You can send your bitcoins from your EToro account to your own wallet with your own key so EToro is not involved with them any more.
3) You can buy other assets available on EToro directly with Bitcoins instead of paying fees twice for conversion to fiat and then to other asset.
4) You can send your bitcoins to a cryptocurrency exchange where you could use them to buy litecoins etc.
5) You can send bitcoins you've already obtained from elsewhere (for example by selling goods for bitcoins) to your EToro wallet.  
6) You can exchange bitcoins in both directions, at will, for *any* fiat currency from around the world (forex trading).  

So, as far as the community's expectations about services offered, they offer about one-third of the services of a regular Bitcoin account you could get anywhere else. And that's kind of a problem.

On the plus side, they are compliant with financial regs, have a good legal staff, and lots of other assets (including reputation) to protect, so they're unlikely to disappear overnight or have their (your) assets disappear in a government seizure.  Also on the plus side, they are well experienced in network security due to their existing business and aren't very likely to get hacked either.  

Thank you for the comment, we are currently looking into adding these features in the future and will update people here once we do. We have decided that the ability to invest in bitcoin in a simple and transparent way with a regulated entity which enables you to also purchase with credit cards is sufficient for an initial launch.
The main gaps offering the majority of 1-6 are regulation and credit risk, the reason that currently exchanges do not support credit cards is that CC are reversible by nature and bitcoin is not, which is a significant risk for any company who wants to enable people to both invest with a credit card and withdraw the bitcoins.

[bitpop]

You have the ability to allow withdraws after 6 months to mitigate risk.

[Avalaxy]

Thank you for the comment, we are currently looking into adding these features in the future and will update people here once we do.

Sweet

[Cryddit]

The main gaps offering the majority of 1-6 are regulation and credit risk, the reason that currently exchanges do not support credit cards is that CC are reversible by nature and bitcoin is not, which is a significant risk for any company who wants to enable people to both invest with a credit card and withdraw the bitcoins.

Oh, absolutely!  NOBODY allows withdrawing bitcoins while the payment made for them is still reversible.  That's just ordinary sense and nobody sensible would have a problem with that.  In fact if someone offered to do something that silly, I'd immediately re-evaluate their service for its potential as being a scam or for the risk of being an honest-but-incompetent player unlikely to continue for long.  It's a nonissue most places because they don't take reversible payments such as credit cards in the first place.  Most bitcoins purchased for money, are purchased with money orders or cashier's checks.

[Thom]

MY etoro experience:

• etoro account opened, money deposited by paypal. "Bought" some netflix stock.

• after a few days the account locked down and demanded i upload ID. wouldn't let me trade/withdraw/anything.

• Site's ID upload didn't work, nor did help section.

• Contacted etoro help. They didn't help much over email, and though i stated not to use my phone,they called my phone.

• Customer services person over phone suggested i insecurely email scans of government-issued ID, which I wasn't gonna do. I remind them that they're legally prohibited from trading on behalf of anyone who they can't prove to be over 18 in the UK, so they can't lawfully take a deposit before seeing a user's ID. More to the point, my passport is out of date so I didn't have enough ID at the time.

• This meant my account was stuck holding netflix and I couldn't change that before renewing my passport or generating some other form of ID. If i was holding some less successful stock, that might have wiped out my money. I explained this, and how it meant I wanted my account cancelled and my money withdrawn.

• I posted about this experience on these boards in etoro's bitcoin announce thread, and was messaged that they'd look into it.

• They tried to call me 8 more times while I was working but I wanted to use email, not phone (so I had logs, perhaps to paste here). I let it ring, but they didn't try my email.

• They DID cancel my account and informed me, but rather than paying me the account balance, they only paypalled me the amount I first deposited, minus 5$ for fees.

In short: I paid 5 bucks to let them borrow my money for a month.

And to be slightly dissed by an american over the phone who seemingly didn't believe that a brit can exist without a current passport or driving license.

...and to be told this:

Hi Thom

we are cashing out your funds.
Sorry it took some time, we were trying to reach you over the phone.

Would be happy if can post all was solved once you receive the funds.

Thanks and i am here for anything you need.

Amos

Sorry, etoro. Your service may be legit and real to moneyed users with ID who don't mind risking it in insecure transmissions, but from my experience being locked out of my account, for all I can tell no trading occurs there and it may just be a big operation to sucker folks into that $5 processing fee.

I mean, that referral $$ that etoro is giving people to spam links around has got to come from somewhere. Some of it is mine.