Bitcoin Forum
December 10, 2016, 11:15:28 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.13.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Smart property  (Read 5308 times)
Mike Hearn
Legendary
*
expert
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
September 05, 2011, 08:24:02 AM
 #1

I've written a new article covering smart property, that is, physical items in the real world whose ownership is controlled by the Bitcoin block chain. You can find it here:

  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property

I give cars, phones and house locks as examples of things which can be traded or used as collateral in a cryptographically mediated way. Feedback welcome as always.
1481368528
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481368528

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481368528
Reply with quote  #2

1481368528
Report to moderator
1481368528
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481368528

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481368528
Reply with quote  #2

1481368528
Report to moderator
1481368528
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1481368528

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1481368528
Reply with quote  #2

1481368528
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
indio007
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


View Profile
September 05, 2011, 08:45:04 AM
 #2

How does this address the Statute of fraud? You know, the one that says all conveyances of land or interests in land must be in writing?

That's the problem MERS and all the banks are having. They tried to use the law that govern negotiable instruments and paste it on to the law governing conveyances of real property.
Needless to say EPIC FAIL.
Frozenlock
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 434



View Profile
September 05, 2011, 03:55:09 PM
 #3

Wikipedia: The statute of frauds refers to the requirement that certain kinds of contracts be memorialized in a signed writing with sufficient content to evidence the contract.

In what universe a bitcoin contract doesn't fulfill those?
  • Memorialized: Yes, forever in the blockchain.
  • Signed writing: Yes, by the use of public/private key (way safer than a traditional signature on a piece of paper btw)
  • Evidence the contract: Bitcoin contract... the whole construction is, per se, a contract

Not only is it full of potential, I'm certain it's the future.
Great complement to this https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=39433.0
indio007
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210


View Profile
September 05, 2011, 09:18:24 PM
 #4

Frozenlock , it might be safer , but electronic signatures are not the same as signed writing. None of the E-sign laws either state or national apply to real estate. The law would have to be changed to accommodate it. It's a good idea just difficult to to implement because of politics .

Also Wikipedia is not the law. There isn't a single court case that cites it as authority.

Also I'm talking about the statute of frauds as it relates to the transfer of real property not business contracts
ovidiusoft
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252


View Profile
September 06, 2011, 05:27:29 AM
 #5

Frozenlock , it might be safer , but electronic signatures are not the same as signed writing.

At least here in Romania (so, I guess al of EU), they are. You need to get an key+token from a certified company, but after that, digital signing is the same as signing a paper. I don't personally know any contract signed this way, but, at least in theory, me and another party would be able to save a pdf with a contract, sign it both with our electronic signatures, and it would hold exactly as it would on paper. Most common usage here in Romania is to sign income/etc/etc declarations that need to be filed monthly/trimestrial/yearly by companies.

Quoting from http://digisign.ro/en/services/electronic_signature

Quote
The benefits of the extended electronic signature result from being equal, from a legal point of view, to a holographic signature. Such a signature is difficult to challenge in court, ensuring the subscriber’s sole authentication and the integrity of the signed documents.

The scope of the extended signature includes:

- Submission of on-line statements to ANAF;

- Invoice signing (According to the fiscal code);

- Signing the documents sent by O.N.R.C. for companies settlement (according to the new regulations in force regarding registration with the Trade Registry);

- Reports to CNVM - compulsory for all entities regulated and monitored by CNVM;

- Reports to the health organizations (CNAS, CASMB, OPSNAJ, CASMT);

- Messages signing by other state authorities (SEAP, CSA-CEDAM, BVB);
d'aniel
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 461


View Profile
September 06, 2011, 07:12:54 AM
 #6

Could you use this to make "smart" safe deposit boxes whose keys are transferred via the block chain, that know when they're opened, and support storage fees (that are paid to their storage provider to prevent the automatic transfer of ownership to them)?

One reason you'd want it to know if it's been opened is so that before remotely purchasing ownership of the box, a potential buyer can remotely query it to see if it's been opened since some trusted auditor last closed it.

For example, this could be used to create fully backed digital currencies without trusted issuers.  Well, technically at least.  Not sure of the legalities here.

Also thinking loan collateral could be secured this way with property that won't be used for the duration of the loan.  The box would have to prevent entry to the owner until the loan is paid off, or if it is defaulted on it would transfer ownership to the lender.
Mike Hearn
Legendary
*
expert
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
September 06, 2011, 11:52:55 AM
 #7

Yes, I think that's possible. An interesting product for somebody to explore in future. Safes controlled electronically already exist, I suppose you could adapt them with new software. It'd need very careful security audits of course.
shads
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 224


View Profile WWW
September 06, 2011, 12:11:30 PM
 #8

I predict that Mike Hearn is going to be filthy stinking rich some time in the future...


PoolServerJ Home Page - High performance java mining pool engine

1LezqRatQz7MeNoCVziYwcdwtqeEbvrdAq - http://payb.tc/shads

Quote from: Matthew N. Wright
Stop wasting the internet.
jimbobway
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1380



View Profile
September 07, 2011, 03:34:59 AM
 #9

I can't believe this was thought of years ago.  I wonder how many more years until this becomes a mainstream reality.

░░░░░░░░░██████░░░░░░░░░░░░▄▄▄
░░███░░██████░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄░░██
░░███░░█████████████
░░░░░░░░██████▀▀██████████
░░░░░░░░██████░░░░░██████████
░░░░░░▄▄▄▄▄▄░░░▄▄▄░░░░███████
░░░░░██████░░░███░░░░███████
░░░░░██████░░░███
░░░░░███████▄▄▄▄▄████████
░░░░░████████████████████
░░▄▄▄▄▄░░█████░░░░█████████
█████░░█████░░░░█████████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░█████████
█████░░░░░░░░░░░░░█████████

START GETTING PAID FOR YOUR ATTENTION!
███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
JUSTICE IN THE WORLD OF ONLINE ADVERTISING!

BUY MASS COIN 】【 ICO PROSPECTUS
VISIT OUR WEBSITE
TWITTER 】【 FACEBOOK 】【 TELEGRAM

wumpus
Hero Member
*****
qt
Offline Offline

Activity: 798

No Maps for These Territories


View Profile
September 11, 2011, 08:48:32 AM
 #10

Interesting idea.

Though a bit scary too. I wouldn't want my house lock dynamically reprogramming itself because someone else claimed to be 'owner'.

Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through FileBackup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.
paulie_w
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420


View Profile
September 20, 2012, 04:51:01 PM
 #11

holy fucking shit to this, which i am just seeing and necroing.

more attention please?
molecular
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142



View Profile
September 21, 2012, 10:29:32 AM
 #12

I've written a new article covering smart property, that is, physical items in the real world whose ownership is controlled by the Bitcoin block chain. You can find it here:

  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property

I give cars, phones and house locks as examples of things which can be traded or used as collateral in a cryptographically mediated way. Feedback welcome as always.

After my London stay, hotel room locks come to mind also Wink

EDIT: I'm trying to come up with more "immediate" (not that Mikes examples are unrealistic, they are just a bit far away for now) examples, something we can do now, rather than after having the automobile industry embrace bitcoin, which might take another year or 1.5 ;->.

Maybe access to gaming platforms is feasable, or access to servers? Could we make a pam module?

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
Mike Hearn
Legendary
*
expert
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526


View Profile
September 21, 2012, 12:51:29 PM
 #13

Yes, a PAM module or OpenSSH extension is possible. Access to remote computers is mentioned on the smart property wiki page as a possible use case. It ties together with the idea of agents quite nicely.
n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588



View Profile
September 21, 2012, 12:56:25 PM
 #14

I've written a new article covering smart property, that is, physical items in the real world whose ownership is controlled by the Bitcoin block chain. You can find it here:

  https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property

I give cars, phones and house locks as examples of things which can be traded or used as collateral in a cryptographically mediated way. Feedback welcome as always.

After my London stay, hotel room locks come to mind also Wink

EDIT: I'm trying to come up with more "immediate" (not that Mikes examples are unrealistic, they are just a bit far away for now) examples, something we can do now, rather than after having the automobile industry embrace bitcoin, which might take another year or 1.5 ;->.

Maybe access to gaming platforms is feasable, or access to servers? Could we make a pam module?


Also seen in London: unattended public bike rentals, similar to the car situation.  Like your hotel lock example, once internet connectivity becomes cheap and widespread enough to embed anywhere, you could potentially "smartify" all kinds of miniobjects like parking spaces or stadium seats whereby they'd restrict or allow occupancy through blockchain address ownership, instead of using meters or physical tickets.

Also, DRM on music/movies/content/ppv (physical disc, or digital download) could potentially be implemented as a smart property, this seems more likely in the near term than the car scenario.
Saturn7
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 146



View Profile
September 21, 2012, 01:07:50 PM
 #15

wouldn't namecoin be better suited for that purpose?

First there was Fire, then Electricity, and now Bitcoins Wink
World
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 746



View Profile
September 22, 2012, 04:08:14 PM
 #16

Also, DRM on music/movies/content/ppv (physical disc, or digital download) could potentially be implemented as a smart property, this seems more likely in the near term than the car scenario.
Don't tell to Hollywood  Grin

Supporting people with beautiful creative ideas. Bitcoin is because of the developers,exchanges,merchants,miners,investors,users,machines and blockchain technologies work together.
FactoredPrimes
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 14


View Profile
September 22, 2012, 05:48:54 PM
 #17

This would work well for anything that cannot be picked up and hidden. Land, intellectual property(patents, copyrights, trademarks etc) and other such items would be transferable without the need for a central authority.
World
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 746



View Profile
September 22, 2012, 06:04:51 PM
 #18

bingo,this is big
Mike do patents, copyrights, trademarks for "Smart property protocol" only for Bitcoin blockchain,this should be under the control of the core team

Supporting people with beautiful creative ideas. Bitcoin is because of the developers,exchanges,merchants,miners,investors,users,machines and blockchain technologies work together.
blakdawg
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 113


View Profile
September 22, 2012, 07:08:41 PM
 #19

A guy named Nick Szabo has been writing about similar ideas since the mid-to-late 1990s.

Without intending to disparage the intellectual effort involved in the creation/maintenance of the idea, I hate it for the same reasons and in the same way I hate DRM and "copy protection". It's the same thing, but applied to physical items, and I believe it will fail in similar ways.
molecular
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2142



View Profile
September 22, 2012, 09:42:51 PM
 #20

A guy named Nick Szabo has been writing about similar ideas since the mid-to-late 1990s.

Without intending to disparage the intellectual effort involved in the creation/maintenance of the idea, I hate it for the same reasons and in the same way I hate DRM and "copy protection". It's the same thing, but applied to physical items, and I believe it will fail in similar ways.

No, it's not the same thing: you can't just copy a car... wait!

PGP key molecular F9B70769 fingerprint 9CDD C0D3 20F8 279F 6BE0  3F39 FC49 2362 F9B7 0769
Pages: [1] 2 3 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!