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Author Topic: Contributors-only forum.  (Read 8900 times)
The_Duke
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September 14, 2011, 01:12:08 PM
 #121

All, whose username is orange, has tangible contributions and usually announced them in the Announcements section.

Ok, so if I set up a PHPBB of SMF on my hosting server, announce that I am opening a forum that is only for coding experts who have written some code for a bitcoin project that I consider well-coded... then I can get an orange name on your forum?

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There are 2 members who didn't have direct contributions.

I've read all their posts to make sure they are not simple trolls or SA spammers. Basic sanity checks, nothing special.

I know that this is controversial and I am sure you will attack it.

Ok, good. You seem to understand some of the issues with what you are trying to do. Saves me some typing.

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In my defense I can say that some pages ago we agreed that at this stage it's a good idea to be more open and invite some people in at my own discretion.

When you say "we agreed" is that the same "we" that you accused me of using earlier? Or are you the only one here who is allowed to speak for others?
You of course realise that it's the whole "my own discretion" that "we" have a problem with, right?

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When such members start causing troubles on the forum we can start dealing with it.

Ah ok. So you open a forum that is only for people who have created something tangible for bitcoin. But not really, because it's also opened to others. When you like them. And then when these others cause trouble, you will moderate it.
So what is wrong with just using bitcointalk and get some more moderation on it to make sure posts stay away from personal attacks, trolling and swearing (such as excessive use of the word fuck for example)?

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So far (besides the small number of members), I optimistically dare to call this project a huge success  Grin

lol, now you sound like Bruce Wink

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Alex Zee
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September 14, 2011, 01:21:35 PM
 #122

You raise valid points (but I see some sprinkles of trolling there too Smiley )

What I don't get is why are you trying to solve non-existing problems? Your points may, or may not, cause troubles in the future.

Why are you still here? Smiley We know you don't like the idea of me doing stuff at my own discretion for whatever reasons. That's fine.

But you're like those guys who stand in front of bars, grab people by their sleeve and ask them not to go in, because evil is happening there.

Don't you think most people here are more than capable of deciding for themselves whether they like the idea or not?


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aq
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September 14, 2011, 01:31:49 PM
 #123

Shoot me your ideas. If they target general public the project won't be tied to the forum, don't worry Wink

And another thing - you don't have to be a member to subscribe to new bounties or reply/claim them.
As you already have a basic bounty thing and http://www.bitcoinstarter.com/ seems to be constantly delayed, maybe you could step up to do something like bitcoinstarter (which as far as we know, wanted to be more like kickstarter and less that of a bounty website anyway). IMO necessarily things:
  • standalone web site (own domain, own user system)
  • open source the whole thing
  • anyone can start a bounty (will be displayed public as soon as it is funded with lets say 1BTC)
  • everyone can anonymously increase a bounty by sending some bitcoins to the public bounty address
  • deadlines - when the bounty target will not be reached, all funds are returned to their respective sending addresses
  • by using public addresses for everything, all displayed funds can be verified using blockexplorer
  • while I like you "in progress" state, it should contain more details
  • maybe add gradual bounties,  100% until some date, 50% until some later date, unpaid funds are returned to the senders
  • a defined mechanism how it is decided if a bounty claim is valid or not
  • funds have to be secured somehow
While partial outdated https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=35905.0 contains some discussion about such a site.

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September 14, 2011, 01:40:18 PM
 #124

This thread is a good example of why people no longer want to bring up ideas to help promote bitcoin.

I think people need to take a good hard look at themselves and ask why they troll new ideas so much.

tl;dr SA forums behaviour is so similar its scary....

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September 14, 2011, 01:45:17 PM
 #125

I was thinking about doing whole freelancing-for-bitcoins site, but it's a rather big project.

Judging by how well my projects have been accepted so far I would wait until investing several months into it Smiley

Another problem is that there are multiple, how to put it, areas involved into such projects.

You have donations, bounties, joint bounties, freelancing, crowd-sourcing, microcredit etc. with various parameters, like whether to use escrow or not, progress track, whether to return funds, like Kiva does, who will have the final say in releasing the funds and so on and so forth.

So it's problematic to create a single and consistent vision of a useful service that is properly positioned.

Trying to implement everything and cater to everybody's needs will create a mess and a sure failure.

At this point I would rather limit myself to roughly 3-day projects and see how it will go.

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Alex Zee
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September 14, 2011, 01:49:32 PM
 #126

And I did my current bounty system intentionally minimalistic, I've tried hard to make it as simple to use as possible and without the need for people to trust me with their money.

Since every member goes through the basic "face control" checks, workers can put more trust into published bounties.



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BitcoinPorn
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September 14, 2011, 01:54:17 PM
 #127

AlexZ, with the forums being open for a little bit now, could you give examples of some of the services or products created by some in your community?  Obviously not stemming from the forums themselves, I know there is still that new forum smell, but some of the users that have contributed, would you mind saying some of their contributions?

I think this may give a little more positive spin on the things that could come from your forums (ie "Some people using the forums include the people behind that bad ass Bitcoin National Radio spot!")

^The above is true any readers btw, I noticed MemoryDealers on the boards.  

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September 14, 2011, 02:00:31 PM
 #128

AlexZ, with the forums being open for a little bit now, could you give examples of some of the services or products created by some in your community?

That's what the Announcements section is for Smiley

I encourage people to post about their services there and some did.

Besides, all the people use the same nicks they use here, so there should be no problems in identifying "the brave ones", who became early adopters (and got themselves nice low-digits user id's Smiley ).


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aq
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September 14, 2011, 02:06:21 PM
 #129

I was thinking about doing whole freelancing-for-bitcoins site, but it's a rather big project.
You could break it down into smaller intermediate steps. Once could argue that you are already at step 1 with the current bounty site.

Judging by how well my projects have been accepted so far I would wait until investing several months into it Smiley
I would say that reception depends on the actual project. Frankly, opening a competing forum, while a great idea, is probably not the easiest task to establish. Just look at Vladimir and https://bitcoin.org.uk/forums/, and he even "pays" people to post there.

Another problem is that there are multiple, how to put it, areas involved into such projects.

You have donations, bounties, joint bounties, freelancing, crowd-sourcing, microcredit etc. with various parameters, like whether to use escrow or not, progress track, whether to return funds, like Kiva does, who will have the final say in releasing the funds and so on and so forth.

So it's problematic to create a single and consistent vision of a useful service that is properly positioned.

Trying to implement everything and cater to everybody's needs will create a mess and a sure failure.
That is why I suggest doing the whole thing in smaller steps. After each step you can adjust your target.

At this point I would rather limit myself to roughly 3-day projects and see how it will go.
Fair enough. However, do you know why MtGox is as huge as it is? Just one reason: it was there before anyone else.
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September 14, 2011, 02:24:58 PM
 #130

You could break it down into smaller intermediate steps. Once could argue that you are already at step 1 with the current bounty site.

That's a good point.

I will go drink my evening tea and think about it Smiley

Thanks for suggesting!

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Alex Zee
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September 14, 2011, 03:16:30 PM
 #131

Ok, here are my thoughts so far:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=44044


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The_Duke
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September 14, 2011, 04:06:44 PM
 #132

You raise valid points (but I see some sprinkles of trolling there too Smiley )

What I don't get is why are you trying to solve non-existing problems? Your points may, or may not, cause troubles in the future.

The ones about your selection criteria is already existing. The other points would be a problem as soon as the forum gets even slightly popular, since you'd be too busy personally screening every applicant's posthistory.

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Why are you still here? Smiley

Because I find it interesting that some guy is trying to set up a restricted forum for something that is a completely open source project which is supposed to liberate us from restrictive organisations like governments and banks. It's an interesting paradox, all the more because the restriction will be completely enforced by one person.

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But you're like those guys who stand in front of bars, grab people by their sleeve and ask them not to go in, because evil is happening there.

I'm not sure where you come from, but where I have been, I've never seen any guys like that :O

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Don't you think most people here are more than capable of deciding for themselves whether they like the idea or not?

I do. Which seems to be confirmed by the numbers on your forum. Wink
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss and debate the topic here.

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DiaperedDynamo
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September 14, 2011, 04:12:18 PM
 #133

I think voting, both up and down, should be implemented, allow us to silence the spammers. And as an added plus, people won't spam topics with posts that are just quotes with +1 attached.

d times?
Alex Zee
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September 14, 2011, 04:16:35 PM
 #134

...Because I find it interesting that some guy is trying to set up a restricted forum for something that is a completely open source project which is supposed to liberate us from restrictive organisations like governments and banks. It's an interesting paradox, all the more because the restriction will be completely enforced by one person.

...

But that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss and debate the topic here.

I, on the contrary, see no point discussing it the way you do.

If people think the same way you think about that "paradox", they won't join. Problem solved.
No need to cram your philosophy down their throats.

If people do like it and will vote in favor by joining then, maybe, there is some flaw in your reasoning.

So I am not sure what are you trying to achieve here.

The easiest thing for you is just sit back, watch and gloat about "my forum numbers".

You, on the contrary, are trying to grab people by their sleeve and tell them not to go in.


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Alex Zee
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September 14, 2011, 04:18:08 PM
 #135

I think voting, both up and down, should be implemented, allow us to silence the spammers. And as an added plus, people won't spam topics with posts that are just quotes with +1 attached.

I have no preferences on that, but somebody here mentioned that it wouldn't be a good idea.

Maybe he could post here some more info about it.

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Alex Zee
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September 14, 2011, 04:21:11 PM
 #136

jippieh! looking forward to that or something similar. I would consider it best to only have the possibility to upvote but not to downvote, at least to start with. Downvotes only create bad atmo = noise.

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HolodeckJizzmopper
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September 14, 2011, 06:43:28 PM
 #137

Not supporting/having-a-lesser-opinion-of miners is a little bit myopic, and you're somehow failing to recognize a fundamental backbone of the network.

Opportunity lost as far as I'm concerned.
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September 14, 2011, 06:58:33 PM
 #138

Not supporting/having-a-lesser-opinion-of miners is a little bit myopic, and you're somehow failing to recognize a fundamental backbone of the network.

Opportunity lost as far as I'm concerned.

This was discussed before. Since anybody can easily become a miner there is no reason to expect any correlation between simply being a miner and providing more meaningful posts or creating a better discussion atmosphere.

We could impose some "power limit" in terms of megahashes, but there are no practical ways for me to check it, short of asking to perform some complex cryptographic task Smiley

That said, operating a big mining pool is certainly a contribution.

If you feel that you have made valuable contributions to Bitcoin besides having lots of GPUs - contact me and let's talk.
Instead, you've just said "never mind", asked me to delete your account and came here to complain.

On a side note, I think it would be best for miners to have their own forum, but they may be comfortable here.

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HolodeckJizzmopper
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September 14, 2011, 07:07:43 PM
 #139

Instead, you've just said "never mind", asked me to delete your account and came here to complain.

 Yeah, silly me remembered after-the-fact that you didn't have a high regard for miners, so I didn't feel like justifying my piddly 4ghash.

 As for verifying hashing capability, it should be simple to ask someone to link you their pool stats at the various pools; not difficult to verify at all.
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September 14, 2011, 07:35:33 PM
 #140

As for verifying hashing capability, it should be simple to ask someone to link you their pool stats at the various pools; not difficult to verify at all.

How can I check that the account somebody points to actually belongs to the email they are trying to register with?
I.e., how can I prevent identity theft?

Also, the "power limit" is not a very reliable measurement. Difficulty changes all the time. And since I am not a miner, I can't define what limit should be appropriate to be considered a valuable contribution.

It would be nice to hear ideas about that from others.


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