BTC Value is Irrelevant

[Richard Rahl]

BTC Value is irrelevant, the only thing that needs to stimulate growth of BTC is some sort of market stabilization. Dropping BTC prices are a bad thing for miners, simply due to the hardware, electricity, and of course the current difficulty.

However, the value of each BTC does not really play a factor into how well BTC is going to do in the future and whether or not it's going to be adopted wildly outside of this community. The only thing that is going to be a factor for being adopted by more businesses and especially bigger corporations for online transactions, is stabilization.

If a BTC was worth $2, it wouldn't be any different than if a BTC was worth $200, so long that Mom & Pop Global Conglomerate could feel safe for charging X amount of BTC for Y Product. Equally as important is if John Q. Public hasn't checked up on the current price of a BTC in the last 6 mo, he can feel safe at assuming it's round or about worth the same as it was 6months ago.

Currently, neither the Corporations nor the Public can even get an accurate amount to charge/pay for products in the course of a single weekend, much less over the course of months or years.

IF the markets became stabilized, then you will see a steady grown of the value of BTC on the long term, simply due to it being a deflationary currency.

[Richard Rahl]

Who cares what big corporations adopt bitcoins?  I don't.  How is this personally relevant to you?

Because, until it is widely accepted and used by corporations who deal mainly in E-Commerce, then it's really no more valuable than World of Warcraft Gold.

Not true.  I would be in a sailboat in any number of West Indies islands.

That's you, since you were an early adopter. That's not everyone.

Don't be fooled into thinking that if you didn't get in on the $0.05/BTC you're not an early adopter. BTC is still an infant. Compared to the world's currency, it less than a day old.

Why does everyone care so much about stabilizing bitcoins market price??  It has nothing to do with the utility or value of bitcoins at all.  

As a matter of fact, the stability of BTC has everything to do with it's utility and value as I explained in the OP and like I said in this post, it's currently no more valuable in the real world as WoW Gold. WoW Gold has a ton of value and is a multi-billion dollar a year industry, but you can't directly trade it in for a new computer on NewEgg.

As it sits currently, you are no more likely to see this:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2ilnhh4.gif

As you are to see this:
http://i53.tinypic.com/2qscqdz.gif

At least until the BTC market becomes stabilized to a point where a company could safely charge X amount of Bitcoins for an extended period of time.

And if Corporations don't adopt BTC in the future, it's nothing more than a collaborative experiment between geeks and business minded people. Relatively short term and if you haven't already made the money you've invested back, you're not going to get it back.

[bitcon]

if sold a $2000 TV for 200 Bitcoins,  then the price of bitcoins dropped to .10 per bitcoin before i could cash out, then i've sold my nice TV for only $20. 

[rebuilder]

Stability is not likely to be seen any time soon. For that to happen, either someone needs to set a fixed exchange rate, taking huge losses doing so, or the market needs to grow until individual players can no longer cause huge fluctuations. Even then, it's not going to be *that* stable.

This is still a very experimental system. The time for mainstream acceptance is not here. Slow growth provides a much better change to iron out the kinks and eventually, if all goes well, will provide Bitcoin with a track record that will give merchants looking into using it more peace of mind.

Anyway, this is all pointless jabber. We lack the means to control the market, so we just have to see what happens.

[bitcon]

i'm currently holding.  i'm taking a huge loss if BTC dont go back up to at least 10$/btc

[Technomage]

i'm currently holding.  i'm taking a huge loss if BTC dont go back up to at least 10$/btc

Doesn't sound very healthy. I'm holding as well and obviously losing money if it never rises but I haven't invested what I can't afford to lose. It's a significant investment but still only a minor portion of my money.

It's not smart to put all of your eggs in one basket. In any basket. Of course I don't know what your situation is but taking a "huge loss" sounds bad.

But no worries, I have it as a 90% event that the price will eventually rise at least beyond $10. If it doesn't, then Bitcoin doesn't succeed, not even as a niche currency. But that's unlikely, Bitcoin is just getting started and the potential for at least a larger niche economy is very good.

[mizike29]

Ive been saying this for months and non one wants to listen, its all about how cool bitcoin is, or thats not what bitcoin needs.  YES BITCOIN NEEDS TO STABILIZE FOR IT TO HAVE ANY FREAKING FUTURE AT ALL PERIOD.  Its pretty simple, no one is going to sell goods and services for something that could be worth 50 cent next week.  Until that changes then this is just a small trading, market, nerdy currency that has some features of a stock, and will be toyed with for a year or two until it fizzles out to nothingness.

[Minsc]

i'm currently holding.  i'm taking a huge loss if BTC dont go back up to at least 10$/btc

I held for $14 all August.  It did not go back up.

[mizike29]

If you believe in bitcoin, you have no choice but to hold on to them at this point unless you bought them for 2 bux a coin.  Anyone who got in at the 10 dollar mark, might as well sit and wait it out.  Never play with a free market with more money then your willing to lose.  I put 1000 bux into MTGOX and it is a 1000 bux I am willing to lose. Now with that 1000, I have bought and sold many bitcoins on ebay, forums, paypal, my website etc, but have lost money overall.  Im down to about 800 bux worth of bitcoins now.  So I am holding, selling, trading still until they die.  I just sold 5 to an economics major for 55 bux for his senior thesis.  Last week I sold 10 bitcoins total at .5 bitcoins each auction around 6.50 a bitcoin, so avg 13 dollars a bitcoin.  Now I cant sell them on ebay at all becauses the price is way to low.  Now its sit and hope it gets back up to 10, that is a nice round stable number.

[rebuilder]

Ive been saying this for months and non one wants to listen, its all about how cool bitcoin is, or thats not what bitcoin needs.  YES BITCOIN NEEDS TO STABILIZE FOR IT TO HAVE ANY FREAKING FUTURE AT ALL PERIOD. 

Good for you. I've been saying for ages now these intermittent periods of rain need to go away if we're ever going to be able to have great outdoor parties whenever we want. No-one wants to listen, though.

[molecular]

BTC Value is irrelevant, the only thing that needs to stimulate growth of BTC is some sort of market stabilization. Dropping BTC prices are a bad thing for miners, simply due to the hardware, electricity, and of course the current difficulty.

Dropping prices are good for FPGA-miners. Not all miners are the same. Some also don't care about current BTC value. Rigs payed off, no selling at such low prices.

[molecular]

BTC is rock-steady. That friggin USD fluctuates like hell lately, though.

[Cluster2k]

BTC is rock-steady. That friggin USD fluctuates like hell lately, though.

You sir, made my day.

[molecular]

Dropping prices are good for FPGA-miners

What?  Why?

Because FPGA-mining is a lot more power-efficient.

My 100MHash/s FPGA uses 6.8W. my 800MHash/s GPU uses 375W

If the xchange-rate drops to, say, 1 USD, a lot of GPU miners will stop mining, difficulty will drop, FPGA-mining might even become profitable (still unlikely, though).

[Grinder]

If the xchange-rate drops to, say, 1 USD, a lot of GPU miners will stop mining, difficulty will drop, FPGA-mining might even become profitable (still unlikely, though).

That's not how it works. If it becomes more profitable for FPGA miners again, it becomes more profitable for GPU miners too. Falling prices and constant difficulty is not good for anyone, it's just less bad for those with lower variable costs. On the other hand the fixed costs are the same, so it takes even longer to pay for the hardware.

[Shinobi]

I usually dont bother posting anymore as its clear that the zealotry will remain no matter the warnings. For what its worth, here is my prediction. Bitcoin's will fall to whatever value is deemed useful enough for Bitcoin to continue to serve as an intermediary for (2) transactions requiring some level of anonymity and (2) monetary transfer over channels where transaction fees would be prohibitive.

Bitcoin will NEVER be held for its own sake - despite all the proclamations otherwise, the market bears the truth - and as such, the "value" as long as it is above zero, is meaningless. Due to psychological reasons, the price will probably come to rest at a figure higher than $0.01 - perhaps $1 - but that's it. And that's all that it needs to be. There is no other utility provided by Bitcoins that warrant holding it for long periods of time, especially given the ease of its theft or inadvertent loss.

For those new to this "scene", carefully read posts by Synaptic. He is the only one telling the truth around here.

[Elwar]

Bitcoin has to be widespread enough to stabilize.

You cannot have a stable price when the value of all of the BTC is so low.

Currently all BTC are worth about $50 million.  If someone with $50 million were to come into the market today the price would double.

The same cannot be said about the Euro. That is why it is considered stable.

There are currently 855 trillion Euro worth $1.2 quadrillion. Nobody will be coming in with $1.2 quadrillion and send the Euro through the roof.

Each BTC would need to be worth $166,000 for the price to be as stable against the dollar as the Euro.

[Jixtreme]

Currently all BTC are worth about $50 million.  If someone with $50 million were to come into the market today the price would double.

You wanna check that math there, sir?

As scarcity increases, so too does price.

Nevertheless, yes, Bitcoin is volatile.

Even still, someone buying up bitcoins is not going to change volitility. It's a matter of the number of bitcoins for sale versus the total number of bitcoins available. Increase the denominator and you will see much less propensity for wiggle.

Time and time alone will make bitcoin more stable.

-Jix

[mizike29]

I dont ever see bitcoin being stable until all 21 million are out there, then it should have a value and stay around that value if it is still proven useful. Until then, the speculation, day trading, panicing, no businesses taking bitcoin, is going to just keep the price jumping low, lower, lowest, maybe back up and down for a while.

[Ekaros]

BTC value to fiat curency can be irrelevant, once the whole chains can operate in it.

Meaning:
You buy TV with BTC
Seller has bought it with BTC, also paid shipping with with BTC
TV manufacturer has bought coponents and labor with BTC
and so on


Currently BTC can't work as there isn't stability, which wouldn't matter if it wasn't traded for fiat-currency by parties. Pretty much chiken and egg issue. Not going to be solved soon I belive, certain products can be handled this way I'm sure, but these are likely mainly services and then we must forget the equivalency to fiat-currencies...