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Author Topic: DO NOT ALLOW TAXATION IN BITCOIN  (Read 2231 times)
zerodrama
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January 17, 2014, 01:12:52 AM
 #1

There is no incentive whatsoever for the tax authorities to redistribute coins.

They will own all of them.

Proof: Silk Road coins have not been redistributed.

EASY CALCULATION FOR TRADES: 1 Million is 1x10e6. 1 Satoshi is 1x10e-8. 1 M sat is 1x10e-2. 100 M sat is 1. If 1 herpcoin = 100 derptoshi then
1 M herpcoin @ 001 derptoshi = 0.01 derpcoin, 1 M herpcoin @ 100 derptoshi = 1.00 derpcoin
Post Scarcity Economics thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3773185
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January 17, 2014, 01:53:34 AM
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Being decentralized and anonymous, the first task of course is to figure out how exactly to tax it. 
zerodrama
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January 17, 2014, 03:02:09 AM
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Being decentralized and anonymous, the first task of course is to figure out how exactly to tax it. 

morons love the state.

they will tell them.

EASY CALCULATION FOR TRADES: 1 Million is 1x10e6. 1 Satoshi is 1x10e-8. 1 M sat is 1x10e-2. 100 M sat is 1. If 1 herpcoin = 100 derptoshi then
1 M herpcoin @ 001 derptoshi = 0.01 derpcoin, 1 M herpcoin @ 100 derptoshi = 1.00 derpcoin
Post Scarcity Economics thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3773185
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January 17, 2014, 03:34:29 AM
 #4

It seems unlikely the US government will keep all bitcoins it seizes or collects, assuming they are ever accepted for taxes. I would view any government accepting bitcoins for taxes (or anything else) as positive news.

zerodrama
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January 17, 2014, 05:16:12 AM
 #5

There is no incentive whatsoever for the tax authorities to redistribute coins.

They will own all of them.

Proof: Silk Road coins have not been redistributed.

Ridiculous. You claim that governments have no incentive to spend money? Where are you from?

And your proof is not proof. They have not been redistributed, yet.

They have no incentive to spend OUR money. They have every incentive to make us spend THEIR cocaine dust covered money.

EASY CALCULATION FOR TRADES: 1 Million is 1x10e6. 1 Satoshi is 1x10e-8. 1 M sat is 1x10e-2. 100 M sat is 1. If 1 herpcoin = 100 derptoshi then
1 M herpcoin @ 001 derptoshi = 0.01 derpcoin, 1 M herpcoin @ 100 derptoshi = 1.00 derpcoin
Post Scarcity Economics thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3773185
dissident
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January 17, 2014, 05:20:53 AM
 #6

big retailers like amazon have to add the tax to the transaction... the government automatically takes out taxes from wages and you get a tax 'refund' in most cases... as far as taxing capital gains from the value of bitcoin itself, that's not going to happen... trading the crypto currencies is fairly transparent and you will only get caught if you are stupid (cashing out bitcoins putting them in the bank, etc) ... use the bitcoins to directly purchase a product instead...

It's not like a stock broker where they have to report every transaction to the IRS or anything which is nice as it eliminates a lot of needless paperwork and irritation.   Of course governments in theory could clamp down on the exchanges themselves because everyone 'wants their piece of the pie' in a fractional reserve world where we have more debt than we do money to pay it off.. everyone is always chasing to have their piece.
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January 17, 2014, 05:31:12 AM
 #7

Being decentralized and anonymous, the first task of course is to figure out how exactly to tax it.  

morons love the state.

they will tell them.

Please keep separate what is currency and what is taxation. Whether you can tax gold or not is irrelevant to gold as a natural substance. Same with bitcoins. Taxation is a social construct which applies to transactions, income, gains and assets.

If you own a property the government may tax you 1% of its value per year. It is irrelevant whether the prevailing currency the government uses is dollars, euros, gold, bitcoins or sea-shells.

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January 17, 2014, 05:43:37 AM
 #8

Being decentralized and anonymous, the first task of course is to figure out how exactly to tax it.  

morons love the state.

they will tell them.
Then they are sheep and you still have your coins. What exactly is the problem? And FYI the Silk road coins are set to be sold en masse in the near future.
zerodrama
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January 17, 2014, 05:49:47 AM
 #9

Being decentralized and anonymous, the first task of course is to figure out how exactly to tax it.  

morons love the state.

they will tell them.
Then they are sheep and you still have your coins. What exactly is the problem? And FYI the Silk road coins are set to be sold en masse in the near future.

I'm not using sheepcoin.

EASY CALCULATION FOR TRADES: 1 Million is 1x10e6. 1 Satoshi is 1x10e-8. 1 M sat is 1x10e-2. 100 M sat is 1. If 1 herpcoin = 100 derptoshi then
1 M herpcoin @ 001 derptoshi = 0.01 derpcoin, 1 M herpcoin @ 100 derptoshi = 1.00 derpcoin
Post Scarcity Economics thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3773185
Jungian
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January 17, 2014, 06:52:44 AM
 #10

Being decentralized and anonymous, the first task of course is to figure out how exactly to tax it.  

morons love the state.

they will tell them.
Then they are sheep and you still have your coins. What exactly is the problem? And FYI the Silk road coins are set to be sold en masse in the near future.

How do you know this?

I think Monero (XMR) is very interesting.
https://moneroeconomy.com/faq/why-monero-matters
RenegadeMind
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January 17, 2014, 06:55:17 AM
 #11

There is no incentive whatsoever for the tax authorities to redistribute coins.

They will own all of them.

Proof: Silk Road coins have not been redistributed.

Ridiculous. You claim that governments have no incentive to spend money? Where are you from?

And your proof is not proof. They have not been redistributed, yet.

The "They will own all of them." part is actually possible. If every bitcoin transaction is taxed, as all are with fiat, it is possible for the state to accumulate most coins. The faster the velocity of money, the faster it happens.

GigaCoin
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January 17, 2014, 09:10:55 AM
 #12

agreed, bitcoin is for free markets commerce not over regulated over taxed hell hole markets.

We don't need regulation and taxation.

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January 17, 2014, 09:23:23 AM
 #13

it will be super hard to tax, and finde who is using the bitcoins.
practicaldreamer
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January 17, 2014, 10:26:34 AM
 #14

As has already been stated, it could (and should) be taxed in the same way as existing fiat currencies. It will be open to abuse/tax fraud - much in the same way as existing fiat.

      Could I ask - if we were not to allow taxation of btc (though I'm not sure how you could achieve this), who would, for example, pay for the National Health Service (in the UK) ? Or would healthcare be left to the free market also ? That would be a shame in my book - I kind of like the idea of healthcare free at the point of delivery  Wink - and not dependant on the level of insurance you could afford.

    FWIW - if it were possible to make Btc immune from taxation I personally believe that over the medium to long term it would slowly sink away into obscurity - it would never be accepted.
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January 17, 2014, 02:28:32 PM
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As has already been stated, it could (and should) be taxed in the same way as existing fiat currencies. It will be open to abuse/tax fraud - much in the same way as existing fiat.

      Could I ask - if we were not to allow taxation of btc (though I'm not sure how you could achieve this), who would, for example, pay for the National Health Service (in the UK) ? Or would healthcare be left to the free market also ? That would be a shame in my book - I kind of like the idea of healthcare free at the point of delivery  Wink - and not dependant on the level of insurance you could afford.

    FWIW - if it were possible to make Btc immune from taxation I personally believe that over the medium to long term it would slowly sink away into obscurity - it would never be accepted.

NHS is collapsing (and has partially collapsed), with elderly mostly affected. It is unsustainable and corrupt healthcare unions made it worse. Countless politicians and health industry experts flat out admit that NHS cannot be sustained there is no other way. The only reason it still survives is due to endless debt/borrowing.

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January 17, 2014, 08:20:24 PM
 #16

As has already been stated, it could (and should) be taxed in the same way as existing fiat currencies. It will be open to abuse/tax fraud - much in the same way as existing fiat.

      Could I ask - if we were not to allow taxation of btc (though I'm not sure how you could achieve this), who would, for example, pay for the National Health Service (in the UK) ? Or would healthcare be left to the free market also ? That would be a shame in my book - I kind of like the idea of healthcare free at the point of delivery  Wink - and not dependant on the level of insurance you could afford.

    FWIW - if it were possible to make Btc immune from taxation I personally believe that over the medium to long term it would slowly sink away into obscurity - it would never be accepted.

Should? Why? Given how hard it is to steal bitcoins from people, the kleptocrats will have a very difficult time forcing people to hand over their bitcoins.

For things like state controlled health care, it's a disaster. Why would you want it? Doctors that have refused to take state health insurance have dropped their prices by 50%+. (I don't have the references handy - sorry.) The state only makes it more expensive to receive lower quality health care.

If anything, the inability of the state to steal wealth from people because they use bitcoins will only make Bitcoin more attractive. Far from fading into obscurity, it will flourish and help starve the state of its ability to wage endless wars and gate-rape travellers. There's no downside. Well, unless you're a state welfare whore, e.g. politicians, police, bureaucrat, etc.

There is nothing that the state does that can't be done better by people. We have clear evidence of this all around us - the economy is only getting worse as the state gets bigger and wastes more and more.

practicaldreamer
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January 17, 2014, 09:21:52 PM
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Should? Why?

Why ? Because if revenue is not able to be raised by Govt./Councils etc thru taxation then the kind of things that taxation (at least partially) funds today - namely, social services - would not be funded at all by the private sector/wealth. Its not profitable. Welcome to the jungle.

For things like state controlled health care, it's a disaster.

Not in the UK - the NHS is a much loved, albeit underfunded, part of the fabric of British society.

If anything, the inability of the state to steal wealth from people because they use bitcoins will only make Bitcoin more attractive.

It might short term - to a certain type of free market evangelist - but over the medium term it will make it untenable as any kind of a serious alternative to fiat currency.

I can see that BTC is attractive to a certain brand of anarchism and/or free market laissez faire capitalism (though I'd have thought the two were mutually exclusive tbh - ironically)

But for me the decentralised nature of BTC is today attractive via its ability to bypass the wests banking system's Ponzi scheme that only serves to urinate on the shoes of the masses - and then tell them that its raining - and makes them pay for the rain  Huh
   Not because it provides the means by which none of us will have to pay any more tax.

And to be honest, the only people that would back that concept would be the 1% who control 80% of the wealth.




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January 17, 2014, 10:57:33 PM
 #18

Being decentralized and anonymous, the first task of course is to figure out how exactly to tax it. 
^this. It would be way to much work to isolate who uses Bitcoins, determine the tax rate, and then implement it when it's so scattered.
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January 18, 2014, 05:02:31 PM
 #19

Would be difficult, actually quite impossible for it to be used universally and have no taxation. This can only happen when bitcoin becomes money instead of investment.
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January 18, 2014, 05:15:48 PM
 #20

Being decentralized and anonymous, the first task of course is to figure out how exactly to tax it.  

morons love the state.

they will tell them.
Then they are sheep and you still have your coins. What exactly is the problem? And FYI the Silk road coins are set to be sold en masse in the near future.

How do you know this?

This is true and confirmed via a judge in NY.  The FBI will most likely not outright sell them but are negotiating the transfer of them to several buyers around the world.  Most likely they will sell to Second Market BIT Trust or Fortresses new BTC fund.  Easiest buyers of a large amount of coin (~26k).  The remaining 100k+ coin is still be contested of who really owns them so they are not being sold as of yet.
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