No payout ever received with p2pool?

[imrehg]

Hi,

I was experimenting with p2pool to see how does it work. My equipment is not good enough to make any profit, but wanted to try out how set up and run one, to be able get more people on here in the Taipei Hackerspace.

I run into the problem that I never actually got any payout from the p2pools that I participated in. Tried Litecoin a while back (mine-litecoins worked even if miniscule payout, p2pool received nothing). This week tried Dogecoin (much fun, shiny coins), but again nothing.

I'm connecting to this pool: http://nogleg.com:9555/static/graphs.html?Week and my address is DQzhUthpxummUdnCFVcHH7Bw2k5JfuA79H
In the interval in question, the area under the hashrate curve for me is about 1/2000th of the pool hashing power (~1GHash vs ~2THash). Wouldn't that mean that I should have gotten about 1/2000th of the payout? The current payout averages at 5.09kDOGE on the graph, that would mean ~2DOGE. But, as the graphs show as well, my miner received totally zero.

This is pretty much the same experience in the Litecoin pool as well.

Do I misunderstand something? Is my contributed hashing power too small? The graphs show other miner with ~12GHash (only 12x my contribution) for the same interval getting 171DOGE on average. Though also see people with much more power (819GHash) receiving nothing according to the graphs.

What's going on?

[semaster]

p2pool is true proper pool

Wouldn't that mean that I should have gotten about 1/2000th of the payout?

To get payouts, you need to:
    solve at least one hash every 24h hours which is higher than the p2pool share difficulty = gets at least one payout each day.
    solve at least one hash within the window of the current block with a difficulty higher than the p2pool share difficulty = gets at least one payout each block.
    You will be only recieving payments once block is found

so p2pool is not good for small miners but is godd for big

[Buffer Overflow]

p2pool is broken shit.  Go mine on a proper pool.  Simple as that.

No it's not broken in the slightest. P2pool is an extremely clever system.
P2pool is a distributed pool and works a little different in contrast to centralised pools.

Decentalised; the way mining was supposed to be.

[Holliday]

p2pool is broken shit.  Go mine on a proper pool.  Simple as that.

PEBKAC.

OP, perhaps some light reading will help you understand P2Pool better.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=153232.0

[Gator-hex]

You need a decent amount of hashing power to use a P2Pool, because it is an instant payout per block with no share system, so you won't accumulate and receive dust payouts if your hash speed is too low.

Benefits of P2P:
- Payouts in virgin unspent coins with no transaction history.
- No user account required, just connect with your payout address.
- Helps keep Bitcoin decentralized.
- Should be lower pool fees because it's less work/risk for pool managers.
- Should be safer, less chance of a pool stealing your coins, as there's no shares or delayed payout.

www.p2pool.org is not the only P2P, also check out a pool node list like http://p2pool.hostv.pl/ to find one with lower fees.

Of course if you want zero fees, anyone can create their own P2Pool node, the instructions are here... http://p2pool.in/

[imrehg]

Thanks for the notes. It looks like there's a lot of partial information floating around.

I understand the benefits, and understand the general workings of the pool, though the details feel inconsistent. Getting there slowly, though. Thanks!

Some more parts I found to read read up on about p2pool payout system since I've asked this question:

Stackexchange discussion re payouts: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/12850
Pay Per Last N Share (PPLNS): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=39832

[zvs]

Hi,

I was experimenting with p2pool to see how does it work. My equipment is not good enough to make any profit, but wanted to try out how set up and run one, to be able get more people on here in the Taipei Hackerspace.

I run into the problem that I never actually got any payout from the p2pools that I participated in. Tried Litecoin a while back (mine-litecoins worked even if miniscule payout, p2pool received nothing). This week tried Dogecoin (much fun, shiny coins), but again nothing.

I'm connecting to this pool: http://nogleg.com:9555/static/graphs.html?Week and my address is DQzhUthpxummUdnCFVcHH7Bw2k5JfuA79H
In the interval in question, the area under the hashrate curve for me is about 1/2000th of the pool hashing power (~1GHash vs ~2THash). Wouldn't that mean that I should have gotten about 1/2000th of the payout? The current payout averages at 5.09kDOGE on the graph, that would mean ~2DOGE. But, as the graphs show as well, my miner received totally zero.

This is pretty much the same experience in the Litecoin pool as well.

Do I misunderstand something? Is my contributed hashing power too small? The graphs show other miner with ~12GHash (only 12x my contribution) for the same interval getting 171DOGE on average. Though also see people with much more power (819GHash) receiving nothing according to the graphs.

What's going on?

since that's my pool, I went ahead and checked

http://nogleg.com:9555/static/graphs.html?Month

search for DQz

You just never got a share.  It'd be pretty rare at 8-10Khash even over a period of a few days..

and before someone says something about the local rate doa/orphans, compare it to pool rate

on these ultra-fast coins, i've customized p2pool to wait x seconds before penalizing shares after a new block is found

[Gator-hex]

You need to get above the 0.001BTC dust threshold on your mining payments.
42GH was paying me about 0.0038BTC x 4 times a day back in 2013-12-15 on FabulousPanda (P2P, 0.5% pool fee).
So you'll probably need at least 15GH to make P2P pay above 0.001BTC.

[imrehg]

since that's my pool, I went ahead and checked

http://nogleg.com:9555/static/graphs.html?Month

search for DQz

You just never got a share.  It'd be pretty rare at 8-10Khash even over a period of a few days..

and before someone says something about the local rate doa/orphans, compare it to pool rate

on these ultra-fast coins, i've customized p2pool to wait x seconds before penalizing shares after a new block is found

Cheers! No worries, I'm not whining that "mommy I didn't get paid", it's more like I would like to understand how things actually work. I will move up on the hardware I'm trying, thought it would be easier on just some low level CPU first to have the experience. Apparently wrong

[Synchronicity]

imrehg,

You are right about no payouts. I began mining Dogecoin two days ago. The first day, I received 4,000 doge,
but the next 24 hours received nothing. Restarted my miner and switched between p2pools with no result.
Mining at 240/KHashes.

I would like someone to explain that away.

http://dogechain.info/address/D6aDwpFjbsHW8At5VHFifAHXkSiFKvPzcs

Something strange is going on.

[Sonny]

If your hashrate is small, the variance for mining in p2pool would be huge...
You need to find a block in the P2Pool block chain to get paid (PPLNS).

[belgarath]

      I have made a small FAQ on my p2pool site. With a schema it is more simple to understand...
      Just have a look at  http://dogecoin.p2pool-mining.org/stats/200
  
      Hopes it can help you to figure out.

[HellDiverUK]

     I have made a small FAQ on my p2pool site. With a schema it is more simple to understand...
      Just have a look at  http://dogecoin.p2pool-mining.org/stats/200
  
      Hopes it can help you to figure out.

Thanks for dragging a thread back from the dead 2 months later.  You also need to proof read and fix all the spelling and grammar mistakes on your FAQ. 

[compumine]

I've tried p2p doge and I like it.  But my biggest problem is deadhash rate is high.  I have over 10% dead hash rate.  out of 7 mh/s, 1mh is dead.  I've seen people mine with 9MH/s and have almost 0 dead.

I've tried adding my own difficulties at the end of the address as some suggested.  address+0.01 and different numbers, but nothing works. Always the same.

I'm using gridseeds, 20 of them.  Each 10 on a PI.  And using Hashra Controla, so other than just adding difficulty, I have not other control.

Anyone can suggest something to do??

I would really appreciate it.

[zvs]

     I have made a small FAQ on my p2pool site. With a schema it is more simple to understand...
      Just have a look at  http://dogecoin.p2pool-mining.org/stats/200
  
      Hopes it can help you to figure out.

Thanks for dragging a thread back from the dead 2 months later.  You also need to proof read and fix all the spelling and grammar mistakes on your FAQ.  

Think I'll drag it back up after several weeks of being dead as well........

because I'm getting tired of all these guides saying that latency is the most important factor.  Use simple logic to discover how many interrupts you should expect per minute, i.e. 8 interrupts per hour w/ 100ms difference (say, 150ms latency vs 50ms) = 8x200 (round trip because share->server and new work from server->peer)  = 1600ms.    That's 2.667% more DOA.  Comparing pools, if pool X has an absolute value of 3% more orphans than Pool Y and is 50ms, vs the 150ms of Pool Y, pool Y is still better.  Your cgminer stats might not look as great, though.

There are also lots of pools that will get lots of DOA regardless of latency (like p2pool.org).

I don't know anything about gridseeds..

[roy7]

You need to get above the 0.001BTC dust threshold on your mining payments.
42GH was paying me about 0.0038BTC x 4 times a day back in 2013-12-15 on FabulousPanda (P2P, 0.5% pool fee).
So you'll probably need at least 15GH to make P2P pay above 0.001BTC.

This is possibly misleading for people new to p2pool, so I'll clarify. There is a dust theashold in the settings for coins in the config file, which the basic idea is "don't have miners work on share targets that will result in a payment below this amount". So what happens is your share target will be set, at a minimum, to pay you the dust threshold. If this target is higher than you'd normally get for your speed, then this means you'll find shares less often but the shares you find are worth more. To illustrate with totally made up numbers:

Vardiff wants to set your miner to submit shares with difficulty 1000. This results in a payment of 5 coins.
However, the dust threshold for this coin is set to 20 coins.
Therefore, your target difficulty will be set to 4000. You'll find shares 1/4 as often, but the shares will pay 20 coins.

This way a tiny miner never get payments that are "too small". They will only receive payments at the dust threshold amount, but they will get paid less often. It does not effect long term average earnings.

[Meuh6879]

I think that nobody have indicate the "pre-timing" control before receive pay with every block is found by P2Pool (like 1 per day).


like this line ...

Local rate: 11.7GH/s (5.1% DOA) Expected time to share: 5.2 days

so, with this line, i must wait 5,2 days with 100% of mining power ... and after this, i receive every block, my paid.
it's simple but not simply explain in the p2pool wiki.