Looks like the Manipulator is back in the market. Buy-hold-SELL SELL SELL

[Xenland]

So your the reason why I get retarded emails like this!?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=42106.0

Becuase people really believe what they read on forums......

The bitcoin speculation board has shifted more towards a conspiracy theory board.

Seems like it for sure..!!


Now its an advertisement board!!!
CheaperinBitcoins.com

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[Edward50]

I bought in earlier today at 6.8. My first bitcoins. This manipulator better stick in there until I can dumb them over $8.00.

[Jixtreme]

I bought in earlier today at 6.8. My first bitcoins.

Somehow I'm skeptical...

[Minsc]

I bought in earlier today at 6.8. My first bitcoins. This manipulator better stick in there until I can dumb them over $8.00.

Why not $2?

[gw4tt]

I bought in earlier today at 6.8. My first bitcoins. This manipulator better stick in there until I can dumb them over $8.00.

Why not $2?

The manipulator is back. This changes everything. 

[Edward50]

Guys, I must admit I decided to sell my bitcoins. It looks like even with the manipulator back in, the downward pressure is so high that we are sure to fall. I sold out all my bitcoins, and made only $2.00 profit, lol.

Things are looking bad. Manipulation can not help the market much now. The negative sentiment is at an all time high. Most people seem to be bearish, while a month ago they were very optimistic

[fcmatt]

Ed's opinion is just as valid as anyone else. Why do people trash on him so much is beyond me. He was not rude to anyone...

[Minsc]

Ed's opinion is just as valid as anyone else. Why do people trash on him so much is beyond me. He was not rude to anyone...

Ed's a genius.  All his predictions have been accurate so far.

[mjcmurfy]

Ed's opinion is just as valid as anyone else. Why do people trash on him so much is beyond me. He was not rude to anyone...

I guess it might have something to do with his paranoid delusions of a subversive, malevolent and seemingly omniscient entity called the manipulator bending the bitcoin markets to it's evil will.

Meh, I guess he could be right for all I know. But I have found that when shit hits the fan, it's more frequently due to ignorance and stupidity than deceit and subterfuge.

Occam's razor: when faced with competing hypotheses that are equal in other respects, the one that makes the fewest new assumptions is probably correct. I.e. the simplest solution is probably the correct one.

I.e human ignorance and stupidity is to blame, not the devious machinations of the manipulator.

[fcmatt]

Ed's opinion is just as valid as anyone else. Why do people trash on him so much is beyond me. He was not rude to anyone...

I guess it might have something to do with his paranoid delusions of a subversive, malevolent and seemingly omniscient entity called the manipulator bending the bitcoin markets to it's evil will.

Meh, I guess he could be right for all I know. But I have found that when shit hits the fan, it's more frequently due to ignorance and stupidity than deceit and subterfuge.

Occam's razor: when faced with competing hypotheses that are equal in other respects, the one that makes the fewest new assumptions is probably correct. I.e. the simplest solution is probably the correct one.

I.e human ignorance and stupidity is to blame, not the devious machinations of the manipulator.

a manipulator is simply someone on an exchange with a lot more money then me. it is really that simple. bitcoin
is their toy to play with anyway they want when they can buy/sell/bid/ask 1000s of BTC on a whim.

can you not imagine having 50-100K on mtgox and just goofing around? watching the peasants think your 25K bid at 6.90 is real?
i can and think these "boogy men/women" exist.

ed is more then likely right. There are a few players playing around.

[mjcmurfy]

a manipulator is simply someone on an exchange with a lot more money then me. it is really that simple. bitcoin
is their toy to play with anyway they want when they can buy/sell/bid/ask 1000s of BTC on a whim.

can you not imagine having 50-100K on mtgox and just goofing around? watching the peasants think your 25K bid at 6.90 is real?
i can and think these "boogy men/women" exist.

ed is more then likely right. There are a few players playing around.

I understand the concept, and fully agree that there are people out there with the capability of drastically affecting the market price. But this is the same in many markets. I don't like the collective labeling of high volume traders as... 'the manipulator'. They are simply people doing their downright best to secure their own interests. I'd be doing it myself if I had the capital.

My point was this. Ed believes these strange market movements to be due to the actions of a single manipulator with some devious plan to alter the price. I believe that it is due to the collective behavior of traders, some with greater influence on the price than others, but all seeking to maximize their own reward.

One is a logical and rational standpoint to take, the other isn't. People can come to their own conclusions on which is which.

[Minsc]

The manipulators have to profit.  They can put a buywall at $10 or a sell wall at $1 but they'll lose money.

[fcmatt]

a manipulator is simply someone on an exchange with a lot more money then me. it is really that simple. bitcoin
is their toy to play with anyway they want when they can buy/sell/bid/ask 1000s of BTC on a whim.

can you not imagine having 50-100K on mtgox and just goofing around? watching the peasants think your 25K bid at 6.90 is real?
i can and think these "boogy men/women" exist.

ed is more then likely right. There are a few players playing around.

I understand the concept, and fully agree that there are people out there with the capability of drastically affecting the market price. But this is the same in many markets. I don't like the collective labeling of high volume traders as... 'the manipulator'. They are simply people doing their downright best to secure their own interests. I'd be doing it myself if I had the capital.

My point was this. Ed believes these strange market movements to be due to the actions of a single manipulator with some devious plan to alter the price. I believe that it is due to the collective behavior of traders, some with greater influence on the price than others, but all seeking to maximize their own reward.

One is a logical and rational standpoint to take, the other isn't. People can come to their own conclusions on which is which.

What other market can you think of that 100K can whip saw it all over the place?

I guess the term "manipulator" was just more fun to throw around as a label for people with more money then me trading in bitcoins.
When a single person can drop the price by 10% in seconds.. i would say they have the ability to manipulate the market for bitcoins
a lot more then any other market i can come up with right now.

But i do understand your point and concede.

[Xenland]

As for easily being able to move the market quickly I literally moved the prices on www.bitcoin7.com from 7.25 to 6.80 from just 70 BTC's. I can only imagine how the other markets are easy to move.

[mjcmurfy]

What other market can you think of that 100K can whip saw it all over the place?

I guess the term "manipulator" was just more fun to throw around as a label for people with more money then me trading in bitcoins.
When a single person can drop the price by 10% in seconds.. i would say they have the ability to manipulate the market for bitcoins
a lot more then any other market i can come up with right now.

But i do understand your point and concede.

Maybe if all the exchanges got together and pooled all of their bid and ask prices, then medium/large-ish transactions wouldn't affect the overall price so much. It's because they are all so fragmented and diffuse, each with relatively small volume individually, that the price can be affected so easily. 100k on a single bitcoin exchange might as well be trillions on any other market.

Most other markets are bigger, so require larger volumes to affect price but they also have bigger players (banks, hedge funds, pension funds, governments) who can affect their particular markets to the same degree. But I desist, I'm being pedantic. I know what you meant.

It seems to be an inescapable fact of life that people will use and abuse economic hegemony time and time again for their own individual gain. It appalls me that this is the way our global economic system works.

[jwzguy]

What other market can you think of that 100K can whip saw it all over the place?

I guess the term "manipulator" was just more fun to throw around as a label for people with more money then me trading in bitcoins.
When a single person can drop the price by 10% in seconds.. i would say they have the ability to manipulate the market for bitcoins
a lot more then any other market i can come up with right now.

But i do understand your point and concede.

Maybe if all the exchanges got together and pooled all of their bid and ask prices, then medium/large-ish transactions wouldn't affect the overall price so much. It's because they are all so fragmented and diffuse, each with relatively small volume individually, that the price can be affected so easily. 100k on a single bitcoin exchange might as well be trillions on any other market.

Most other markets are bigger, so require larger volumes to affect price but they also have bigger players (banks, hedge funds, pension funds, governments) who can affect their particular markets to the same degree. But I desist, I'm being pedantic. I know what you meant.

It seems to be an inescapable fact of life that people will use and abuse economic hegemony time and time again for their own individual gain. It appalls me that this is the way our global economic system works.

What you suggest is already being accomplished indirectly through arbitrage. We just need more overall volume to keep the market prices stable. That will come when there is a higher demand for actually using BTC.

[The_Duke]

What you suggest is already being accomplished indirectly through arbitrage. We just need more overall volume to keep the market prices stable. That will come when there is a higher demand for actually using BTC.

Why do you think a market price for something that is inherently deflationary will EVER become stable?

[Edward50]

I do not understand how anyone can deny that there is probably a manipulator int he market, and most likely a single individual.

I hope you guys are looking at the market depth on mt. gox. trade data.

When you see something like this that happens within an hour or so, and has happened multiple times with both adding and removing those bid orders, then there is no doubt that its a manipulator. Also it is proven that fake bid walls have always been put up and removed.

So look at the before and after, how can you explain those changes in numbers happening at ever .05 cents range. This all happens all so quickly. This is so obvious that someone is manipulating the market, trying to hold the prices stable. I wonder now if this individual was the reason why prices skyrockted up to $30 dollars.


BEFORE:
Bid   5.8   364.84
Bid   5.85   478
Bid   5.9   537.58
Bid   5.95   673.46
Bid   6   1020.74
Bid   6.05   722.89
Bid   6.1   585.42
Bid   6.15   170.63
Bid   6.2   2909.72
Bid   6.25   252.23
Bid   6.3   1084.7
Bid   6.35   722.51
Bid   6.4   427.88
Bid   6.45   677.62
Bid   6.5   0746.27
Bid   6.55   691.65

AFTER:

Bid   5.8   1864.84
Bid   5.85   378
Bid   5.9   2137.58
Bid   5.95   3273.46
Bid   6   7020.74
Bid   6.05   3122.89
Bid   6.1   3585.42
Bid   6.15   170.63
Bid   6.2   6909.72
Bid   6.25   1252.23
Bid   6.3   1084.7
Bid   6.35   1722.51
Bid   6.4   2827.88
Bid   6.45   1677.62
Bid   6.5   1746.27
Bid   6.55   4791.65

[jwzguy]

What you suggest is already being accomplished indirectly through arbitrage. We just need more overall volume to keep the market prices stable. That will come when there is a higher demand for actually using BTC.

Why do you think a market price for something that is inherently deflationary will EVER become stable?

Because I don't buy into disproven Keynesian nonsense...which is why I'm here. Why are YOU here? (That's rhetorical, it's obvious.)

[Jixtreme]

a manipulator is simply someone on an exchange with a lot more money then me. it is really that simple. bitcoin
is their toy to play with anyway they want when they can buy/sell/bid/ask 1000s of BTC on a whim.

can you not imagine having 50-100K on mtgox and just goofing around? watching the peasants think your 25K bid at 6.90 is real?
i can and think these "boogy men/women" exist.

ed is more then likely right. There are a few players playing around.

I understand the concept, and fully agree that there are people out there with the capability of drastically affecting the market price. But this is the same in many markets. I don't like the collective labeling of high volume traders as... 'the manipulator'. They are simply people doing their downright best to secure their own interests. I'd be doing it myself if I had the capital.

My point was this. Ed believes these strange market movements to be due to the actions of a single manipulator with some devious plan to alter the price. I believe that it is due to the collective behavior of traders, some with greater influence on the price than others, but all seeking to maximize their own reward.

THIS.