Using Bitcoin in Burger King...

[TCraver]

I think I've got a fair grasp on the basic theory of Bitcoin.

But so far, it appears to me that Bitcoin is only suitable for use where a vendor can wait for payment to validated - tens of minutes - before delivering the goods that were purchased.

So, per my topic title, you couldn't go into Burger King (or your favorite fast food joint or any other meat-space store), whip out your smartphone, shoot some bitcoin at the cash register, and they let you walk out with your burger and fries.   Or your grocery store, and they let you walk out with $200 worth of groceries.

Is that correct?   Would anyone be interested in discussing a BIP or altcoin that makes that possible?

Thanks

[rednazbtc]

There are many altcoins who are faster.

But it's not important, because it's not profitable to "scam" your local coffeeshop. When you buy/sell something expensive, you should wait for 6 confirms to be sure. For small transactions there should be no problem with accepting 0 confirmations.

[Sportsclips]

You CAN go in Burger King and buy with btc.....I did it today.

Download the Gyft app onto your phone.  You can buy a burger king gift card that is on your phone, in 15 seconds. (no confirms needed).  Works at any burger king.  They also have a ton of other places.

[Euphonious]

Yeah - maybe the number of confirms required could vary based on the value or risk of the transaction. Buy a burger, 0-1 confirms. Buy a house, lots of confirms...

[TCraver]

You CAN go in Burger King and buy with btc.....I did it today.

Download the Gyft app onto your phone.  You can buy a burger king gift card that is on your phone, in 15 seconds. (no confirms needed).  Works at any burger king.  They also have a ton of other places.

Thanks @ Sportsclips!  Useful to know.

But I still wonder if there couldn't be something more "generic" - effectively a digital debit card system for instant purchases anywhere. 

Maybe I would have to sacrifice anonymity (to the vendor) for the sake of convenience in quick daily transactions, since they would effectively be giving me credit for a short period.

[hilariousandco]

I think I've got a fair grasp on the basic theory of Bitcoin.

But so far, it appears to me that Bitcoin is only suitable for use where a vendor can wait for payment to validated - tens of minutes - before delivering the goods that were purchased.

So, per my topic title, you couldn't go into Burger King (or your favorite fast food joint or any other meat-space store), whip out your smartphone, shoot some bitcoin at the cash register, and they let you walk out with your burger and fries.   Or your grocery store, and they let you walk out with $200 worth of groceries.

Is that correct?   Would anyone be interested in discussing a BIP or altcoin that makes that possible?

Thanks

Do they let you walk out of the store after you've used your credit card? You could go home ring your bank and cancel the transaction.

Once you send the Bitcoin the money is as good as received so you don't need to wait for the full confirmations. Retail businesses will use payment processors that will insure against double spending etc anyway so it's a moot point.

[Akka]

There are many altcoins who are faster.

Not really true.

Confirmations are a measurement of security. Simple speaking, when you have 1 confirmation in Bitcoin it means the mining power of 10 minutes says your transaction is confirmed*. If you have a coin with 1 minute Blocktime 1 confirmations means the mining power of 1 minute says your transaction is confirmed

That means if you wait for 6 confirmations in a Bitcoin transaction, you should actually wait for 60 confirmations in the other coin and that only if the same amount of Hash Power would back it.

The only (very small advantage) is the 1. confirmation where it would already have the security of 1/10 of a Bitcoin confirmation.

[TCraver]

Do they let you walk out of the store after you've used your credit card? You could go home ring your bank and cancel the transaction.

Once you send the Bitcoin the money is as good as received so you don't need to wait for the full confirmations. Retail businesses will use payment processors that will insure against double spending etc anyway so it's a moot point.

Sure, because when I use a credit card they have a fair degree of assurance that they know who I am, so they can come after me if I defraud them.

Supposedly that's less the case for Bitcoin, if the vendor doesn't wait for at least one block to be hashed.  I'm sure vendors could set up alternative methods of identifying me and proving that I was the one that used the fake bitcoin - but it'll be more expensive for them and less convenient for me than simply insisting that I use a dollar-based credit card.

[hilariousandco]

Do they let you walk out of the store after you've used your credit card? You could go home ring your bank and cancel the transaction.

Once you send the Bitcoin the money is as good as received so you don't need to wait for the full confirmations. Retail businesses will use payment processors that will insure against double spending etc anyway so it's a moot point.

Sure, because when I use a credit card they have a fair degree of assurance that they know who I am, so they can come after me if I defraud them.

Do they? You could be any fraudster with that card. You could also claim that you never made the transaction. Cards are not foolproof or flawless just like BTC.

[Cryptopher]

I think I've got a fair grasp on the basic theory of Bitcoin.

But so far, it appears to me that Bitcoin is only suitable for use where a vendor can wait for payment to validated - tens of minutes - before delivering the goods that were purchased.

So, per my topic title, you couldn't go into Burger King (or your favorite fast food joint or any other meat-space store), whip out your smartphone, shoot some bitcoin at the cash register, and they let you walk out with your burger and fries.   Or your grocery store, and they let you walk out with $200 worth of groceries.

Is that correct?   Would anyone be interested in discussing a BIP or altcoin that makes that possible?

Thanks

Small transactions would need zero confirmations.

It reminds me of buying a cheap item on eBay, it arrives, it sucks, but you only spent a few quid on it. Do you return it? Hell no, it would cost more and isn't worth the hassle.

What is a few quid for burger, fries and a drink on the off-chance that somebody has the ability to cheat you out of those millibits. Nah. Convenience over breakage.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Sure, because when I use a credit card they have a fair degree of assurance that they know who I am, so they can come after me if I defraud them.

No they have a fair assurance who the cardholder is, which for millions of transactions totalling billions of dollars a year isn't the "purchaser".

Say a given merchant has a loss rate (due to CC fraud both third party fraud and so called friendly fraud) of 1% and pays 2% in CC fees.  If the merchant loses money to Bitcoin fraud but the loss rate is <3% the merchant's bottom line has improved.   Chasing a goal of zero fraud no matter how intrusive it is for the consumer isn't something merchants do with credit cards, why would they for Bitcoin?

[scottii]

Franko has 30 second, on average, transaction times.  =)

[dmpotter]

Hurry make a McFatty coin just for fast food chains.

[NUFCrichard]

As someone mentioned, zero confirmation trades will have to be accepted.  maybe for small volumes that will be allowed, for larger volumes at least x number of confirmations.

Online there is no issue, in a shop/bar it could be.

[mindfulmojo]

You CAN go in Burger King and buy with btc.....I did it today.

Download the Gyft app onto your phone.  You can buy a burger king gift card that is on your phone, in 15 seconds. (no confirms needed).  Works at any burger king.  They also have a ton of other places.

Thanks @ Sportsclips!  Useful to know.

But I still wonder if there couldn't be something more "generic" - effectively a digital debit card system for instant purchases anywhere. 

Maybe I would have to sacrifice anonymity (to the vendor) for the sake of convenience in quick daily transactions, since they would effectively be giving me credit for a short period.

There is this: https://bitplastic.com/

I think the start up cost is very high, like 0.25 btc, it doesn't need any personal information though, if I remember correctly.

[hilariousandco]

You CAN go in Burger King and buy with btc.....I did it today.

Download the Gyft app onto your phone.  You can buy a burger king gift card that is on your phone, in 15 seconds. (no confirms needed).  Works at any burger king.  They also have a ton of other places.

Thanks @ Sportsclips!  Useful to know.

But I still wonder if there couldn't be something more "generic" - effectively a digital debit card system for instant purchases anywhere. 

Maybe I would have to sacrifice anonymity (to the vendor) for the sake of convenience in quick daily transactions, since they would effectively be giving me credit for a short period.

There is this: https://bitplastic.com/

I think the start up cost is very high, like 0.25 btc, it doesn't need any personal information though, if I remember correctly.

Wouldn’t it be easier/cheaper to just have some sort of password protected paper/card wallet or whatever? One of the main selling points about Bitcoin is we don't need banks for stuff like this anymore.

[HASHRA]

Exactly... people are working on this. It won't be an issue for small amounts when the risk is low for the seller, bit like how you can now just swipe your card without a pin or signature, in those cases the seller is taking a risk, but the risk is worth it for them... like a herd of people behind you wanting to order a coffee.
BTC will work just like that.

Buying a house or car?.... expect to have to wait for those confirmations.

[hilariousandco]

I think I've got a fair grasp on the basic theory of Bitcoin.

But so far, it appears to me that Bitcoin is only suitable for use where a vendor can wait for payment to validated - tens of minutes - before delivering the goods that were purchased.

So, per my topic title, you couldn't go into Burger King (or your favorite fast food joint or any other meat-space store), whip out your smartphone, shoot some bitcoin at the cash register, and they let you walk out with your burger and fries.   Or your grocery store, and they let you walk out with $200 worth of groceries.

Is that correct?   Would anyone be interested in discussing a BIP or altcoin that makes that possible?

Thanks

Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2nRDFoeQHo Somebody buys a coffee with BTC in less than 30 seconds. Probably faster than paying with card.

[JoeTheBitcoin]

I think this is a great idea.  It would be awesome if we could get Five Guys to accept bitcoin.  Five Guys seems like a small and innovative enough burger joint to get on board with this.  I wouldn't be surprised if Five Guys is an early adopter in the burger segment.