Counterparty Assets Thread

[cityglut]

This is a thread to discuss assets within the Counterparty protocol. Users are encouraged to discuss: asset issuance, advertising assets, asset recommendations, the functionality of asset creation, dividends on assets, and anything else related to Counterparty assets.

[SyRenity]

Interesting, watching .

[cityglut]

One possible use of asset issuances is to create a sort of currency peg. Here's one way to do this.

Let's suppose Mt. Gox issues MTGOXUSD and John buys "100 MTGOXUSD" for $100 worth of XCP plus some premium, on the premise that he can redeem his 100 MTGOXUSD for $100 worth of XCP before a certain block, which can be specified either off-chain or in the asset description on-chain. John can redeem his MTGOXUSD either through the distributed exchange or by sending his MTGOXUSD to an address provided by Mt. Gox. John can of course also trade his MTGOXUSD with other users.

Mt. Gox can offer MTGOXUSD1, MTGOXUSD2, etc. each with its own expiration block; presumably the further in the future the expiration block is, the higher the premium the voucher will carry.

The risk that the vouchers will not be redeemed is inversely proportional to the price premium, and to the issuer's reputation.

[Chang Hum]

Might be some security issues to iron out (like getting robbed at gunpoint) but I suppose getting cash in and out locally could be tied to an asset, redeemable in the same way as local bitcoins .

So if bob wants to purchase $100 in exchange for a crypto from issuer cashlondonbitcoin840to1 (or whatever the format is for issuing assets). Than for him the chain not only works as a way to fund/cash out locally and instantly but also as a central medium for advertising traders in his areas.

[cityglut]

Might be some security issues to iron out (like getting robbed at gunpoint) but I suppose getting cash in and out locally could be tied to an asset, redeemable in the same way as local bitcoins .

So if bob wants to purchase $100 in exchange for a crypto from issuer cashlondonbitcoin840to1 (or whatever the format is for issuing assets). Than for him the chain not only works as a way to fund/cash out locally and instantly but also as a central medium for advertising traders in his areas.

Right, but it should be noted that in order effectively to advertise traders in his area, Bob or the trader(s) will need make advertisements off-blockchain, since the asset description will likely not be long enough to specify everything necessary to create an appropriate advertisement. Moreover, the initial risk associated with helping traders gain reputation will probably be much greater on account of meeting in person. On the other hand, such local trades will help decentralize asset sales, since you will not need to (e.g.) connect your bank account to a website.

[Chang Hum]

Is there anyway the asset description could be written in such a way as to pull information from elsewhere, which then in turn could be interpreted by a client or HTML page to show it's full meaning

for example within the asset description using something like a # followed by a letter meaning information's drawn from an external source say www.externalcounterpartysources.com. In this example #i321 could look up image 321 at the above address or #t458 could look up text.

The benefit being you could then use the asset description to create a full listing on a layer above the chain like a client or webpage?

[SyRenity]

Is there anyway the asset description could be written in such a way as to pull information from elsewhere, which then in turn could be interpreted by a client or HTML page to show it's full meaning

for example within the asset description using something like a # followed by a letter meaning information's drawn from an external source say www.externalcounterpartysources.com. In this example #i321 could look up image 321 at the above address or #t458 could look up text.

The benefit being you could then use the asset description to create a full listing on a layer above the chain like a client or webpage?

Perhaps as base64 coded URL, leading to an external page?

[cityglut]

Is there anyway the asset description could be written in such a way as to pull information from elsewhere, which then in turn could be interpreted by a client or HTML page to show it's full meaning

for example within the asset description using something like a # followed by a letter meaning information's drawn from an external source say www.externalcounterpartysources.com. In this example #i321 could look up image 321 at the above address or #t458 could look up text.

The benefit being you could then use the asset description to create a full listing on a layer above the chain like a client or webpage?

The devs and I were of the opinion that asset descriptions should *have to* include a link to an external source; anything else is untenable within the blockchain. Note that this decision has not been implemented, nor is it final.

If Mt. Gox created MTGOXUSD e.g., they would provide a link to an official website where they: a) have a list of all the addresses that are their own - thereby allowing users to verify that it is in fact Mt. Gox which issued MTGOXUSD and b) a description of the assets issued by each address - thereby allowing users to determine whether (e.g.) MTGOXUSD is what they are looking for.

As to the recommendation of purchasing assets from certain addresses, I think this will most effectively be done through forums such as this one.

[Chang Hum]

Is there anyway the asset description could be written in such a way as to pull information from elsewhere, which then in turn could be interpreted by a client or HTML page to show it's full meaning

for example within the asset description using something like a # followed by a letter meaning information's drawn from an external source say www.externalcounterpartysources.com. In this example #i321 could look up image 321 at the above address or #t458 could look up text.

The benefit being you could then use the asset description to create a full listing on a layer above the chain like a client or webpage?

The devs and I were of the opinion that asset descriptions should *have to* include a link to an external source; anything else is untenable within the blockchain. Note that this decision has not been implemented, nor is it final.

If Mt. Gox created MTGOXUSD e.g., they would provide a link to an official website where they: a) have a list of all the addresses that are their own - thereby allowing users to verify that it is in fact Mt. Gox which issued MTGOXUSD and b) a description of the assets issued by each address - thereby allowing users to determine whether (e.g.) MTGOXUSD is what they are looking for.

As to the recommendation of purchasing assets from certain addresses, I think this will most effectively be done through forums such as this one.

And what about the description being interpreted by an external source to summarize the asset description including the information linked to

[cityglut]

Is there anyway the asset description could be written in such a way as to pull information from elsewhere, which then in turn could be interpreted by a client or HTML page to show it's full meaning

for example within the asset description using something like a # followed by a letter meaning information's drawn from an external source say www.externalcounterpartysources.com. In this example #i321 could look up image 321 at the above address or #t458 could look up text.

The benefit being you could then use the asset description to create a full listing on a layer above the chain like a client or webpage?

The devs and I were of the opinion that asset descriptions should *have to* include a link to an external source; anything else is untenable within the blockchain. Note that this decision has not been implemented, nor is it final.

If Mt. Gox created MTGOXUSD e.g., they would provide a link to an official website where they: a) have a list of all the addresses that are their own - thereby allowing users to verify that it is in fact Mt. Gox which issued MTGOXUSD and b) a description of the assets issued by each address - thereby allowing users to determine whether (e.g.) MTGOXUSD is what they are looking for.

As to the recommendation of purchasing assets from certain addresses, I think this will most effectively be done through forums such as this one.

And what about the description being interpreted by an external source to summarize the asset description including the information linked to

In other words, you would like both a link to an official website for the asset and an official summary by an external source of the asset?

What are the criteria for choosing the external source which summarizes the asset description? It would be out of line with the spirit of Counterparty to centralize summaries, and I don't see how to circumvent that problem. Did you have something in mind?

[Chang Hum]

If the data could be interpreted externally then any webpage built on top of that wouldn't be centralized it would just be a layer on top of the exchange for a nice interface/presentation of the data.

Counterparty could have a site that works as a back end for asset issuers i.e. to upload images into a library of a certain size or to add any other sort of information to add to their listing/bet.

If it's a possibility this could be achieved then it would be a case of working out how you'd like the information to presented at the top level and working backwards. I.e. would it be nice to have a site with the current bets separated from current assets, would it be nicer to then have those bets and assets broken down into different categories. What's the best way for the information at the top level to be presented?

It would be cool if you could build something at a higher level that's erring towards ebayish or betfairish fed from the chain.

[cityglut]

If the data could be interpreted externally then any webpage built on top of that wouldn't be centralized it would just be a layer on top of the exchange for a nice interface/presentation of the data.

Counterparty could have a site that works as a back end for asset issuers i.e. to upload images into a library of a certain size or to add any other sort of information to add to their listing/bet.

If it's a possibility this could be achieved then it would be a case of working out how you'd like the information to presented at the top level and working backwards. I.e. would it be nice to have a site with the current bets separated from current assets, would it be nicer to then have those bets and assets broken down into different categories. What's the best way for the information at the top level to be presented?

It would be cool if you could build something at a higher level that's erring towards ebayish or betfairish fed from the chain.

Right now there is no way to encode such data in the blockchain, and as a result it would need to be hosted on a particular server, so there would still need to be some centralization. We may look into ding something similar in the future, but for now now putting links in asset descriptions is, in our view, the simplest and most decentralized way to describe assets.

[markm]

Links are nor authoritative.

Put a hash of the entire asset contract. Even then anyone who can manage to fabricate a document that turns out to have that exact hash can pass it off as being the real contract, but that should be hard - computer-science hard, math hard - to do.

It also means here you get hold of a copy of the document is irrelevant, either it is the right document as it hashes to the hash recorded in the blockchain, or it is not.

You can get it by offering a reward on television or by finding it in a garbage bin or by searching for it on google or by making it up yourself by trying all posible documents that can be made for a few billion trillion lifetimes-of-the-universe, who cares how you got it as long as it is correct aka hashes to the right hash.

anyone who cares could pirate a copy and put it on a file-sharing site or DHS or whatever, it just doesn't matter. It could be a deep secret, an asset very few people have found the contract for. Or it could be a full page printed in all major global newspapers. Just hash it to see if it is the one you are looking for.

-MarkM-

[Chang Hum]

For interest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COLLADA

The current kingpin of digital asset exchange, relating to graphic design/3d modelling and gaming.

[cityglut]

Links are nor authoritative.

Put a hash of the entire asset contract. Even then anyone who can manage to fabricate a document that turns out to have that exact hash can pass it off as being the real contract, but that should be hard - computer-science hard, math hard - to do.

It also means here you get hold of a copy of the document is irrelevant, either it is the right document as it hashes to the hash recorded in the blockchain, or it is not.

You can get it by offering a reward on television or by finding it in a garbage bin or by searching for it on google or by making it up yourself by trying all posible documents that can be made for a few billion trillion lifetimes-of-the-universe, who cares how you got it as long as it is correct aka hashes to the right hash.

anyone who cares could pirate a copy and put it on a file-sharing site or DHS or whatever, it just doesn't matter. It could be a deep secret, an asset very few people have found the contract for. Or it could be a full page printed in all major global newspapers. Just hash it to see if it is the one you are looking for.

-MarkM-

We are talking about two different things: asset descriptions and asset contracts.  Any hash of an asset contract that is put in the blockchain would be for a contract that is itself off-chain, and so we are still left with the problem: How does a user actually know what he is buying? Moreover, since we still need a reference an off-chain source in order to provide a satisfactory description of the asset, there is no reason why the hash of any contract involved in the purchase of the asset would need to be on-chain.

[lonsharim]

I joined and decided to mine alt-coins in Dec 2013 by which time it was too late for me to use my modest rigs for BTC. Now I simply alt-mine and convert it to BTC.

Before I set up my rig I researched my best options and I found that people were community mining BTC by pooling their monies and buying shares of ASIC rigs that produced terra hashes.

I think for something as simple as this
1. Asset can be created in Counter Party
2. No of shares issued with a set price in XCP
3. Dividend paid out once the rig is set up by the asset creator.
4. Shares of the asset can be transferred at market rate (potentially higher than original sale) without involving the guy running the rig.

[cityglut]

I joined and decided to mine alt-coins in Dec 2013 by which time it was too late for me to use my modest rigs for BTC. Now I simply alt-mine and convert it to BTC.

Before I set up my rig I researched my best options and I found that people were community mining BTC by pooling their monies and buying shares of ASIC rigs that produced terra hashes.

I think for something as simple as this
1. Asset can be created in Counter Party
2. No of shares issued with a set price in XCP
3. Dividend paid out once the rig is set up by the asset creator.
4. Shares of the asset can be transferred at market rate (potentially higher than original sale) without involving the guy running the rig.

Yes, I think this is an excellent example. It should be noted, however, that the 'order' function is completely general, and so whoever is selling asset shares can ask for any other asset in exchange.

Do you have a particular way in mind for users to validate that the asset issuer is legitimate?

[lonsharim]

Do you have a particular way in mind for users to validate that the asset issuer is legitimate?

I was thinking about this and I couldn't figure out any trustless way to accomplish this. The issuer's reputation on and/or off the platform will be a factor.

The plus side of someone with a reputation issuing an asset like this is that it will do its bit to increase adoption of the platform among actual users as opposed to hoarders and speculators. Any type of co-operative venture both virtual and physical can easily be managed and distributed if a targeted GUI software is built for it.

[cityglut]

Do you have a particular way in mind for users to validate that the asset issuer is legitimate?

I was thinking about this and I couldn't figure out any trustless way to accomplish this. The issuer's reputation on and/or off the platform will be a factor.

The plus side of someone with a reputation issuing an asset like this is that it will do its bit to increase adoption of the platform among actual users as opposed to hoarders and speculators. Any type of co-operative venture both virtual and physical can easily be managed and distributed if a targeted GUI software is built for it.

The devs and I have thought about the problem a lot, and we too see no way to absolutely mollify the trust issue; ultimately, it comes down to reputation.

The 'solution' then is to create on/off platform environments that make a reputation-based system as effective as possible. The Counterparty Team has thought of a way that it believes is a significant step towards this, and will be announcing it soon. Stay tuned.

[hoolio]

How do I create an asset and check if it's valid?