Raw transaction - forgot to include tx costs - now money in limbo

[doolittle]

Hi all,
I was redoing the multisig-transaction example of Gavin Andresen.
https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/3966071/raw/1f6cfa4208bc82ee5039876b4f065a705ce64df7/TwoOfThree.sh
I did not include any transaction costs when I entered the commands which define the "funding"-transaction, i.e. the transaction that "loads" the multi-signature address. Yet sendrawtransaction went through. I created, signed and sent the transaction hours ago (there was a complete: true)
Now my money is somehow in the limbo. My QTwallet tells me that the BTC have left, but since the transaction is unconfirmed the BTC have not entered the multisig-address yet. Do you think that the money will still arrive? Or is it lost?
It is "just" BTC 0.05. No drama, but still pretty annoying.

[doolittle]

The thing is, I thought sending 0.05 BTC would be such a large amount that I do not have to spend Tx fees.
But it seems that not only spending but also sending to a multi-sig wallet increases the transaction size and makes tx fees necessary.

[gweedo]

The thing is, I thought sending 0.05 BTC would be such a large amount that I do not have to spend Tx fees.
But it seems that not only spending but also sending to a multi-sig wallet increases the transaction size and makes tx fees necessary.

Why are you trying to get out of paying fees? Do you believe miners should not be compensated for the time and cpu to verify and find blocks to include your transaction?

Raw transactions can really screw up your bitcoins if you have no clue what you are doing. You can try to recover the tx by doing -reindex on startup of the bitcoin-qt. You should have done this in the testnet where it is safe you can experiment I use the testnet all the time!

[empoweoqwj]

Hi all,
I was redoing the multisig-transaction example of Gavin Andresen.
https://gist.github.com/gavinandresen/3966071/raw/1f6cfa4208bc82ee5039876b4f065a705ce64df7/TwoOfThree.sh
I did not include any transaction costs when I entered the commands which define the "funding"-transaction, i.e. the transaction that "loads" the multi-signature address. Yet sendrawtransaction went through. I created, signed and sent the transaction hours ago (there was a complete: true)
Now my money is somehow in the limbo. My QTwallet tells me that the BTC have left, but since the transaction is unconfirmed the BTC have not entered the multisig-address yet. Do you think that the money will still arrive? Or is it lost?
It is "just" BTC 0.05. No drama, but still pretty annoying.

its a bit early to panic about the coinage  disappearing - give it some time. Its only been a few hours right?

[doolittle]

The thing is, I thought sending 0.05 BTC would be such a large amount that I do not have to spend Tx fees.
But it seems that not only spending but also sending to a multi-sig wallet increases the transaction size and makes tx fees necessary.

Why are you trying to get out of paying fees? Do you believe miners should not be compensated for the time and cpu to verify and find blocks to include your transaction?

Raw transactions can really screw up your bitcoins if you have no clue what you are doing. You can try to recover the tx by doing -reindex on startup of the bitcoin-qt. You should have done this in the testnet where it is safe you can experiment I use the testnet all the time!

to be honest I dislike the fees because I like round numbers. Just aestetics you know. Maybe stupid, but I am sure a lot of people feel this way. Also it is always annoying to count the decimal points to make sure I am sending not too much but also not too few coins. The old discussion about mBTC vs. BTC.

[doolittle]

By the way, it is this transaction.
b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c

I do not understand why there is a problem.
In the wiki it says.
A transaction may be safely sent without fees if these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10,000 bytes.
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger.
    Its priority is large enough (see the Technical Info section below)


All the criteria are met.

[empoweoqwj]

The thing is, I thought sending 0.05 BTC would be such a large amount that I do not have to spend Tx fees.
But it seems that not only spending but also sending to a multi-sig wallet increases the transaction size and makes tx fees necessary.

Why are you trying to get out of paying fees? Do you believe miners should not be compensated for the time and cpu to verify and find blocks to include your transaction?

Raw transactions can really screw up your bitcoins if you have no clue what you are doing. You can try to recover the tx by doing -reindex on startup of the bitcoin-qt. You should have done this in the testnet where it is safe you can experiment I use the testnet all the time!

to be honest I dislike the fees because I like round numbers. Just aestetics you know. Maybe stupid, but I am sure a lot of people feel this way. Also it is always annoying to count the decimal points to make sure I am sending not too much but also not too few coins. The old discussion about mBTC vs. BTC.

"I dislike fees because I like round numbers" That's one of the weirdest statements I've ever read on this forum 

[empoweoqwj]

By the way, it is this transaction.
b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c

I do not understand why there is a problem.
In the wiki it says.
A transaction may be safely sent without fees if these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10,000 bytes.
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger.
    Its priority is large enough (see the Technical Info section below)


All the criteria are met.

But it doesn't tell you when it will arrive does it ....

[e4xit]

http://bitcoinfees.com/

This site will explain fees to you a bit better. Some info may be slightly outdated and also Bitcoin-QT 0.9 when released will throw it right off, but you will get a better general understanding.

[Altoidnerd]

By the way, it is this transaction.
b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c

I do not understand why there is a problem.
In the wiki it says.
A transaction may be safely sent without fees if these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10,000 bytes.
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger.
    Its priority is large enough (see the Technical Info section below)


All the criteria are met.

It will eventually be included in a block.  You can see its cue position by searching for the txid b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c
 at blockchain.info.

https://blockchain.info/tx/b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c

[jl2012]

By the way, it is this transaction.
b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c

I do not understand why there is a problem.
In the wiki it says.
A transaction may be safely sent without fees if these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10,000 bytes.
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger.
    Its priority is large enough (see the Technical Info section below)


All the criteria are met.

No, the priority is very very low

[Altoidnerd]

Just pay off Ghash.io

[doolittle]

Just pay off Ghash.io

What do you mean?

[cr1776]

Just pay off Ghash.io

What do you mean?

I believe he was joking about getting them to do a double spend.

And the priority - the last thing on your list - was low, fyi.

[Altoidnerd]

I believe he was joking about getting them to do a double spend.

The comment was satirical, but if you get them to mine it...it'll be mined.  So call Ghash.io and offer 45 goats, 3 pounds of sugar, and your first born child to mine the TX...they have a bit of hash power, I understand.

[empoweoqwj]

Just pay off Ghash.io

What do you mean?

I believe he was joking about getting them to do a double spend.

And the priority - the last thing on your list - was low, fyi.

Yes indeed. Zero fee transactions don't tend to have large priority

[escrow.ms]

By the way, it is this transaction.
b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c

I do not understand why there is a problem.
In the wiki it says.
A transaction may be safely sent without fees if these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10,000 bytes.
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger.
    Its priority is large enough (see the Technical Info section below)


All the criteria are met.

No, the priority is very very low

This^

Your transaction's priority is

(5000000 * 123)/223 =2757847.53363
5000000 is 0.05 BTC
123 is total confirmations of input transaction.
223 is your transaction size


As per wiki

Transactions need to have a priority above 57,600,000 to avoid the enforced limit

Just wait for some time, it will get confirmed.

[cr1776]

By the way, it is this transaction.
b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c

I do not understand why there is a problem.
In the wiki it says.
A transaction may be safely sent without fees if these conditions are met:

    It is smaller than 10,000 bytes.
    All outputs are 0.01 BTC or larger.
    Its priority is large enough (see the Technical Info section below)


All the criteria are met.

And as others have said, definitely use the testnet that way if you make a mistake it doesn't really matter.  But do give it some time, it shows it in the queue here:

https://blockchain.info/tx/b4f02e34a2c5349930f92474e57a83670dec05b497ba08c09f982f511a96ab9c

:-)

[empoweoqwj]

Its not like 0.05 BTC is not a significant amount. Its right it should be delayed. If miners don't get rewarded "something" for $50 transactions, bitcoin won't work as intended going forward.

[Altoidnerd]

It's funny.  This performance is still far higher than that of banks, yet the bitching.