Massive spike to $7 (then $15.9499) sunday 3PM BST at MtGox

[froggy]

Wow, just seen a massive spike up to $7 on Mtgox.  Anyone know what happened?  Gone back to $5.70ish at the time of writing but that was a huge upward move.

[1715673934]

1715673934

[1715673934]

1715673934

[Gabi]

Someone bought a lot of btc

[froggy]

Hee hee - yes, I guess, ask an obvious question....

[johnj]

I saw it too.  It looked like ~$100k.

[MaGNeT]

Someone bought a lot of btc

Must be like some 60,000$ 

[Gabi]

Back to 7

[NamelessOne]

It is the manipulator! Just put up 2000+ BTC wall at 7! Save us manipulator!

[Cluster2k]

My explanation for the completely irrational price activity:

- A faulty bot.  Sunday afternoon/night and someone isn't keeping an eye on their script.
- Someone is doing this for shits and giggles.  It's fun.  They have free money they didn't work for (early bitcoin mining).  Why not do something silly.
- Hacked account.  Maybe Bill Cosby is giving us a free present.  Sell while you can.

[NamelessOne]

10000 BTC wall at 7 now, haha.

[RyNinDaCleM]

Bought every coin up to $70, and has a $75,000 bid wall @$6.77!

[johnj]

My explanation for the completely irrational price activity:

- A faulty bot.  Sunday afternoon/night and someone isn't keeping an eye on their script.
- Someone is doing this for shits and giggles.  It's fun.  They have free money they didn't work for (early bitcoin mining).  Why not do something silly.
- Hacked account.  Maybe Bill Cosby is giving us a free present.  Sell while you can.

Edit:

Nvm.  The movement makes 0 sense.  Going with a bugged bot

[RyNinDaCleM]

oops! I meant $7!

[Cluster2k]

My explanation for the completely irrational price activity:

- A faulty bot.  Sunday afternoon/night and someone isn't keeping an eye on their script.
- Someone is doing this for shits and giggles.  It's fun.  They have free money they didn't work for (early bitcoin mining).  Why not do something silly.
- Hacked account.  Maybe Bill Cosby is giving us a free present.  Sell while you can.

I'm going to go with:

- People buying low, hoping to sell high.

And they all decide to put up bid walls at the exact same price, with 10,000BTC, then instantly remove those walls at the same time to make the price bounce like a yoyo.  It's obvious it's not a natural market.  Anyone can see that.

[johnj]

My explanation for the completely irrational price activity:

- A faulty bot.  Sunday afternoon/night and someone isn't keeping an eye on their script.
- Someone is doing this for shits and giggles.  It's fun.  They have free money they didn't work for (early bitcoin mining).  Why not do something silly.
- Hacked account.  Maybe Bill Cosby is giving us a free present.  Sell while you can.

I'm going to go with:

- People buying low, hoping to sell high.

And they all decide to put up bid walls at the exact same price, with 10,000BTC, then instantly remove those walls at the same time to make the price bounce like a yoyo.  It's obvious it's not a natural market.  Anyone can see that.

I changed it while you were still typing.

[Cluster2k]

My explanation for the completely irrational price activity:

- A faulty bot.  Sunday afternoon/night and someone isn't keeping an eye on their script.
- Someone is doing this for shits and giggles.  It's fun.  They have free money they didn't work for (early bitcoin mining).  Why not do something silly.
- Hacked account.  Maybe Bill Cosby is giving us a free present.  Sell while you can.

I'm going to go with:

- People buying low, hoping to sell high.

And they all decide to put up bid walls at the exact same price, with 10,000BTC, then instantly remove those walls at the same time to make the price bounce like a yoyo.  It's obvious it's not a natural market.  Anyone can see that.

I changed it while you were still typing.

Yeah, I noticed once the page refreshed after I clicked Post 

[Bigpiggy01]

In Bot we trust!!!! 

[RyNinDaCleM]

Aaannd, back to $5.93!

[johnj]

It jumped to 9 when I wasn't looking

[Cluster2k]

Giant swing, Giant Swing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUm85c__Z0g

[johnj]

Holy shit, don't blink

[BCEmporium]

Holy!!!! High:15.9499 

[Cluster2k]

It jumped to 9 when I wasn't looking

This is the reason to have silly Asks way above the market price.  Someone gets access to a mass of bitcoins and it's the only way to profit.  The only other winner out of all of this is MtGox.  Love those transaction fees.

[RandyMarsh]

Somethings wrong here? It did not spike to 16?

[randomguy7]

Must be invalid data, there were no trades up to almost 16 bucks.

[johnj]

Somethings wrong here? It did not spike to 16?

It's bitcoin!  The numbers are madeup!

[Cluster2k]

Holy shit, don't blink

MtGox bug?  That's just silly.  I wonder if these trades will be wound back.  Whoever is doing this has picked a good time.  Late Sunday night in Japan.

[RandyMarsh]

Somethings wrong here? It did not spike to 16?

It's bitcoin!  The numbers are madeup!

I guess we're just being goxed again...

also i dont think theres anything to wind back, that high at both 9 and 15 seem like invalid data, theres no volume to show that trades were executed at these prices

[johnj]

That's it.  I'm cancelling netflix.

Mtgoxlive is free.

[froggy]

Holy!!!! High:15.9499 

I thought you were joking but just checked and you're right.  Either someone has a huge amount of money and confidence or something's wrong at MTgox.  

[dserrano5]

Volume doesn't agree with that spike, I think those $15.95 trades didn't happen.

[server]

MTgox is just playing with himself... to put an end at the <$5 ...

[Cluster2k]

MTgox is just playing with himself... to put an end at the <$5 ...

MtGox is a market setter for various other exchanges and services.  If I was running one of those I'd be pulling the plug right now to avoid getting played on arbitrage.

[bitcoinTrader]

What was that? High:15.9499

Did anyone's order got filled at 15.9 or even 12-13?
Did I make mistake by not having orders in that price range

[grod]

Sending my last 2 bits to mtgox now on the hopes that 1. this real glitch and 2. trades won't be wound back.

A little voice tells me a few thousand other people are doing the same thing.

[Cluster2k]

What was that? High:15.9499

Did anyone's order got filled at 15.9 or even 12-13?
Did I make mistake by not having orders in that price range

Bitcoin Monitor is reporting a 46.28BTC trade for $15.94.

Messed up.

[Cluster2k]

Sending my last 2 bits to mtgox now on the hopes that 1. this real glitch and 2. trades won't be wound back.

A little voice tells me a few thousand other people are doing the same thing.

Lol.  I've been trying to get my BTC into MtGox for an hour.  One confirmation so far.  Come on! 

[BCEmporium]

Don't get it also, there're no asks on that range and the market gets restocked really fast! 1 second after there're already <7 asks? Are the bots mad or what went on?!

[RyNinDaCleM]

They'll never be there in time!

[Edward50]

Did anyone notice at one point the LOW on mt.gox was 1.99.

I am surprised nobody mentioned that one.

It must be faulty data because now it shows the low of 4.6001

[bitcoinTrader]

4.60001 is correct

[Cluster2k]

Did anyone notice at one point the LOW on mt.gox was 1.99.

I am surprised nobody mentioned that one.

It must be faulty data because now it shows the low of 4.6001

I didn't see it.  I have buys at $2.90 that didn't get filled.  If MtGox really did show a low of $1.99 I'd be pissed.

[rebuilder]

I had a sell order at around 7 when the spike to 15 showed up. Didn't get filled. Bug.

[Edward50]

This must be the cosby coins hack, they probably got lots of mt.gox passwords and are using people's cash to buy bitcoins. I moved my money out of mt. gox last night because I was worried about this.

[RandyMarsh]

I had a sell order at around 7 when the spike to 15 showed up. Didn't get filled. Bug.

Thank you!

[wobber]

This spike to 6 usd is not good. Same thing happened a few days ago. from 6.4 to 7.8 or so... Then crashed bigtime!

[Edward50]

Did anyone notice at one point the LOW on mt.gox was 1.99.

I am surprised nobody mentioned that one.

It must be faulty data because now it shows the low of 4.6001

I didn't see it.  I have buys at $2.90 that didn't get filled.  If MtGox really did show a low of $1.99 I'd be pissed.

it did show 1.99 on my screen , I couldn't believe it also. Must be Mt. Gox hack then since nobody orders got filled.

[bitcoinTrader]

Even my below order wasnt filled:

Buying 5 4.51235 USD Active 22.56 USD 09/11 06:28

[Elwar]

I had a few sells set up at $10.2 that never got touched.

[rebuilder]

it did show 1.99 on my screen , I couldn't believe it also. Must be Mt. Gox hack then since nobody orders got filled.

It could be a display bug. It wouldn't be the first time.

[RandyMarsh]

WTF? now its showing multiple spikes over 8, the price hasnt gone above 6 in the past few mins, mtgox needs to go down for maintenance now!

[maxll]

Another bad news for bubble named "BTC".

[Cluster2k]

I had a few sells set up at $10.2 that never got touched.

It's hard to trust MtGox if they let trades happen at $15 and not process $10 trades.  It completely distorts the market and is like a lottery win for the lucky guy at $15 and not a market.  If MtGox wants itself to be taken seriously it must address issues like this.

[froggy]

Not really bad news for BTC, just bad for MTgox. 

[rebuilder]

It's hard to trust MtGox if they let trades happen at $15 and not process $10 trades.  It completely distorts the market and is like a lottery win for the lucky guy at $15 and not a market.  If MtGox wants itself to be taken seriously it must address issues like this.

There was probably no trade at 15.

[druid]

hmmmm...smells like there is priority sellers club  on Mtgox...

[bitcoinTrader]

It's hard to trust MtGox if they let trades happen at $15 and not process $10 trades.  It completely distorts the market and is like a lottery win for the lucky guy at $15 and not a market.  If MtGox wants itself to be taken seriously it must address issues like this.

There was probably no trade at 15.

Yeah... just a display bug I guess

[Cluster2k]

Not really bad news for BTC, just bad for MTgox. 

The biggest and most important exchange by far has serious instability issues.  It's not directly a BTC bad news story, but that's not the way it'll be read by most lay people.

[Cluster2k]

It's hard to trust MtGox if they let trades happen at $15 and not process $10 trades.  It completely distorts the market and is like a lottery win for the lucky guy at $15 and not a market.  If MtGox wants itself to be taken seriously it must address issues like this.

There was probably no trade at 15.

Yeah... just a display bug I guess

Display bug on MtGox Live and Bitcoin Monitor?  I saw the trade on both.  MtGox is displaying the trade as valid. 

Last Price: 5.53 High:15.9499

[johnj]

Yep, bitcoin monitor has the 43BTC @ 15



Edit: hard to screencap and hover over the trade at the same time, just look.

Edit2:  Looking back, they're so scrunched up now (due to scale), I can't locate it again.  But it was there.

[druid]

we all hope that its a bug, but I hope mtgox make a statement addressing the situation, or Im off to bitmarket

[Elwar]

Placed my $10 trades on the 25th (unfortunately the high went up to 10.19 and I missed the fall on those)

[memvola]

It's hard to trust MtGox if they let trades happen at $15 and not process $10 trades.  It completely distorts the market and is like a lottery win for the lucky guy at $15 and not a market.  If MtGox wants itself to be taken seriously it must address issues like this.

There was probably no trade at 15.

Don't think so. I'm sure we'll hear an explanation shortly. What about dark pools? Haven't been trading at MtGox for some time, looks like any mention of them have disappeared. AFAIK they allowed you to trade exclusively in dark pools, so that would explain trades at $15 before executing trades at $10.

[hugolp]

It's hard to trust MtGox if ...

Its hard to trust bitcointalk as well. Its very hard what to believe.

[froggy]

Yep, bitcoin monitor has the 43BTC @ 15

Where does bitcoin monitor get its data from?  If it's just a feed from mtgox then they're just using the same (apparently wrong) data.

[Cluster2k]

Bitcoin Monitor has lost its feed from MtGox.  Lots of Gox trades happening but they're not showing up now.

[dserrano5]

Yep, bitcoin monitor has the 43BTC @ 15

Where does bitcoin monitor get its data from?  If it's just a feed from mtgox then they're just using the same (apparently wrong) data.

You beat me to this.

[johnj]

Bitcoin Monitor has lost its feed from MtGox.  Lots of Gox trades happening but they're not showing up now.

Oooh oooh, I wasn't around to say it last time, so...

"Gox got goxxed!"

[julz]

Bitcoin Monitor has lost its feed from MtGox.  Lots of Gox trades happening but they're not showing up now.

Oooh oooh, I wasn't around to say it last time, so...

"Gox got goxxed!"

That implies an external agent doing the goxing..  I think it's more likely:  "Gox goxxed itself!"

[Vandroiy]

Mtgox more or less admitted long ago that the feeds get wrong data. I don't know what this is trying to accomplish, but it has been there for ages. The error is always a small trade showing absurd price.

The large spike? Someone bought. Maybe he's just crazy, maybe a faulty bot, maybe a try to start a rally. Who knows? I've seen much more insane movements on Bitcoin than that, so I don't know why people talk about rollbacks and stuff.

[johnj]

Bitcoin Monitor has lost its feed from MtGox.  Lots of Gox trades happening but they're not showing up now.

Oooh oooh, I wasn't around to say it last time, so...

"Gox got goxxed!"

That implies an external agent doing the goxing..  I think it's more likely:  "Gox goxxed itself!"

Gox on gox action?

[Cluster2k]

Okay, bitcoins have arrived at MtGox.  Hacker, please do your worst.  A spike up to $7 would be nice  

[grod]

Mtgox more or less admitted long ago that the feeds get wrong data. I don't know what this is trying to accomplish, but it has been there for ages. The error is always a small trade showing absurd price.

The large spike? Someone bought. Maybe he's just crazy, maybe a faulty bot, maybe a try to start a rally. Who knows? I've seen much more insane movements on Bitcoin than that, so I don't know why people talk about rollbacks and stuff.

Bots rely on pricing data to make their decisions.

Guess what happens when they get fed a bunch of bogus data?

[memvola]

Bots rely on pricing data to make their decisions.

Guess what happens when they get fed a bunch of bogus data?

Bot explanation doesn't fit, since orders didn't execute.

[Cluster2k]

Mtgox more or less admitted long ago that the feeds get wrong data. I don't know what this is trying to accomplish, but it has been there for ages. The error is always a small trade showing absurd price.

The large spike? Someone bought. Maybe he's just crazy, maybe a faulty bot, maybe a try to start a rally. Who knows? I've seen much more insane movements on Bitcoin than that, so I don't know why people talk about rollbacks and stuff.

Again, it's not feed data that's wrong.  MtGox itself is reporting today's high price as $15.94.  It's right there on their web site.  Are you suggesting MtGox reports incorrect data about its own trades?  If that is the case and it's a known issue, it's time to pull all money out of MtGox and close it down for good.

[grod]

Okay, bitcoins have arrived at MtGox.  Hacker, please do your worst.  A spike up to $7 would be nice  

I'm willing to sell at $6.  If I'm wrong, my cost to mine them is $3.50.  Seeing as I shut down but most of deepbit did not looks like 90% of miners get their coins for even less (3c/kwhr power or free?).  I have no worries about them being available much cheaper eventually -- like the bulls, I can think long term as well.

[johnj]

Gox trades on bitcoinmonitor are back up.

[Cluster2k]

Bitcoin Monitor is reporting multiple BTC movements of 50000 to 52500 in quick succession.  Looks like the fun is ending.

[Vandroiy]

Bots rely on pricing data to make their decisions.

Guess what happens when they get fed a bunch of bogus data?

Right, I didn't think of that. But the bot writers should know this problem, as it has been there for a while already. Still, it is a possible explanation.

I'm not so sure whether Mtgox gives warranty of their feeds being correct 100% of the time. I agree that this is very questionable, but might still be the case.

[nibor]

The spikes to $16 look very similar to the price BTC/PLN is trading at.

I wonder if there is a bit of a bug at mtgox that is getting confused about the pln vs usd traded prices?

[grod]

BTC sold: [tid:1315755389779696] 2.00000000 BTC at $6.00000

Thank you mr. hacker!  At least I covered the power to make those coins, even after paying Dwolla 25 cents to move those 12 bucks. =)

[Gabi]

Oh well we are at 6$ now

[Cluster2k]

Bots rely on pricing data to make their decisions.

Guess what happens when they get fed a bunch of bogus data?

Right, I didn't think of that. But the bot writers should know this problem, as it has been there for a while already. Still, it is a possible explanation.

I'm not so sure whether Mtgox gives warranty of their feeds being correct 100% of the time. I agree that this is very questionable, but might still be the case.

Imagine the NASDAQ reporting AAPL spiking to $900 a share and back again with no order executed in between.  There would be questions asked, to say teh least.

[memvola]

Bitcoin Monitor is reporting multiple BTC movements of 50000 to 52500 in quick succession.  Looks like the fun is ending.

I guess we'll see in about an hour. There's more than 600K there.

[wobber]

You mean large BTC sales?

[memvola]

You mean large BTC sales?

No, transfers. See the blockchain & bitcoinmonitor.

[Cluster2k]

You mean large BTC sales?

The dots are blue not red, so it suggests someone is moving a LOT of bitcoins.

The last time I saw this kind of thing was just after MtGox was hacked.  Price fell to $0.01 and there was a transfer of hundreds of thousands of bitcoins.  Turned out it was MtGox's admins moving bitcoins for fear of hackers stealing the lot.

[wobber]

You mean large BTC sales?

No, transfers. See the blockchain & bitcoinmonitor.

I mean, moving bitcoins to mtgox in order to sell?

[johnj]

You mean large BTC sales?

No, transfers. See the blockchain & bitcoinmonitor.

[grod]

Now showing a high in the 13 instead of the 15 trade.  I'm now convinced the trade data has never been accurate.  Glad I have just pennies at mtgox, these guys are either complete amateur hour or outright fraudsters.

Anyone trusting that operation with hundreds of thousands of dollars at once deserves to be robbed blind.

[memvola]

You mean large BTC sales?

No, transfers. See the blockchain & bitcoinmonitor.

I mean, moving bitcoins to mtgox in order to sell?

Don't think so. What Cluster2k said makes more sense. Though I don't think there's something wrong with MtGox, it might be just a precaution. Looks like it's 700K, they appeared in the blockchain.

[grod]

That would make sense.   Last time mtgox's account was 500k coins, so 200k more were sent to be sold since then.   

[arsenische]

I have a sell order at mtgox for 9.36 USD. It is there from august. But it was never executed. So those price movements are not real?

[Cluster2k]

I have a sell order at mtgox for 9.36 USD. It is there from august. But it was never executed. So those price movements are not real?

$15.94 order was wound back but $12.50 remains.  I wonder how many orders MtGox will cancel as being erroneous.  Is $12.50 sensible when the price was sitting at $4.75 before the mini madness?  Was $7 rational?

Now down to $4.82 as I type this.  And back to $6.30.  MtGox is f*cked 

[johnj]

I have a sell order at mtgox for 9.36 USD. It is there from august. But it was never executed. So those price movements are not real?

I'd guess either error or as someone else suggested, dark pools (if mtgox has that)

[ElectricMucus]

I have a sell order at mtgox for 9.36 USD. It is there from august. But it was never executed. So those price movements are not real?

Well either you or gox is lying....

[grod]

I have a sell order at mtgox for 9.36 USD. It is there from august. But it was never executed. So those price movements are not real?

No, they are utterly bogus.  Not only are they bogus but they're disappearing.  Day high has now been moved to 12.5, and by the time most people get a gander at the chart they'll wonder what kind of crack everyone in this thread was smoking.

I think this was an experiment by the mtgox guys to see how traders and bots would react when given bogus trade data.  Expect more of the same in the future since the reaction was hugely positive -- 20% jump in bitcoin prices after being stable for about a day.

[wobber]

I had a buy order at 5.1 and never filled. 4.85 never happen

[Cluster2k]

I think this was an experiment by the mtgox guys to see how traders and bots would react when given bogus trade data.  Expect more of the same in the future since the reaction was hugely positive -- 20% jump in bitcoin prices after being stable for about a day.

Interesting theory, but I think it would be highly unethical (to say the least) for MtGox to do that.  People are making trades and moving money in and out of MtGox (btc or otherwise).  Imagine the NYSE turning around after a volatile day of trading and saying "HA! Just testing you, now we roll back everything".

I'm betting on another MtGox bug.  They've just opened 15 new currencies.  Chances are something went wrong.  Bots reacted accordingly.  Bots are dangerous in the playpen of MtGox and the real world of the NYSE/FTSE/etc.  There they can do real damage.

[Drifter]

The 50,000 exchanges are all from one person (obviously). To be more specific, if you check the top 100 list, http://bitcoinreport.appspot.com/, all those 50,000 BTC addresses are the ones that moved. Couldn't tell you what they are doing with it though.

[memvola]

In Gox We Trust

[BCEmporium]

Actually, another spike-alike happened yesterday at Virwox:



A jump to near 3000 SLL (1 USD +/-= 257 SLL so it means about 11,5 USD/BTC)

EDIT: And this chart isn't goxed, I'd a long time "wiring trap" of 1 BTC there at 3000 to warn me when btc come back from the dead and it got hit.

[RandyMarsh]

Trading seems to have come to a halt. Quick response by Mt.Gox there.

[wobber]

What do you mean?

[memvola]

Trading seems to have come to a halt. Quick response by Mt.Gox there.

I don't see that.

[RandyMarsh]

What do you mean?

Yeah trading seemed to completly stop there for about 2 minutes. Thought it might have been Mt.Gox intervening

[Cluster2k]

Trading seems to have come to a halt. Quick response by Mt.Gox there.

Trade still going from what I can see.  Not as vigorous as before, but it's still happening.  The massive volatility started 2 hours ago.  Not exactly a quick response to something that should have halted the market within minutes.

What we do now know is that MtGox has no self protections against massive price swings that can indicate processing of erroneous data.  An automatic trading halt would have been prudent.  After the June hack I would have thought that would be an obvious thing to implement.

[RandyMarsh]

Not exactly a quick response to something that should have halted the market within minutes.

Yup, i was being sarcastic. I agree completely with everything you said.

[johnj]

Another HUGE spike.  Just had an order fill to buy at 4.80

[RandyMarsh]

Another HUGE spike.  Just had an order fill to buy at 4.80

Didn't happen, LIES?!

[LobsterMan]

I think a lot of the recent mtgox activity has been very shady, and I grow more and more distrustful of mtgox as time goes on...

For example, often it will look as if someone buys up lots of ask orders in an attempt to pump the price of bitcoins up, but I think mtgox could be just doing that on their own. They could just, for example, cancel all ask orders below $7 or so, gladly take the bitcoins from the users and deposit these in mtgox's own wallets. Meanwhile they can just credit everyone who had one of the cancelled orders with mtgusd in their account that mtgox can create out of nowhere. This will then net mtgox quite a few bitcoins as well as bump price of bitcoins up too while giving the sellers the illusion of a legitimately completed sale.

This is just kind of raw speculation but some recent market trends have me very confused and slightly concerned. When the mtgox price goes up rapidly after a large purchase, a whole lot of very low volume orders (like .05 btc or less) will rapidly be filled and the price will gradually go up as these ask orders are filled (it almost seems like the sum of all the sold coins would not be adequate to change the market price as much as it gets changed?). And then what?...this price increase is only temporary and whoever is buying up all these btc surely isn't hoarding them all only to buy high and then sell low once the price starts to slowly go back down? Maybe there is some arbitrage taking place here


This is all really just (mostly; somewhat) unfounded speculation on my part....but lots of the stuff going on with mtgox lately doesn't make sense to me...so either I'm being very naive, mtgox is being very incompetent, or mtgox is doing something to manipulate market prices (or some combination of all three?)

[ElectricMucus]

check sig

[johnj]

Another HUGE spike.  Just had an order fill to buy at 4.80

Didn't happen, LIES?!

[smoothie]

Now MT. GOX says the high for today was $12.50. So wtf is is it? $15? or $12.5?

Something fishy is going on....

[Gabi]

and bitcoin charts is still down

[smoothie]

and bitcoin charts is still down

I know what the fuck is that all about. Watch when volatility subsides they will be operational.

What a joke.

[johnj]

Now MT. GOX says the high for today was $12.50. So wtf is is it? $15? or $12.5?

Something fishy is going on....

I have screen caps on page 1 or 2 of it being 15.  Now its back to 12ish.

Play those bots while you can.

[fluxlite]

Yeah there are massive amounts of a low volume orders being filled, and I know it's the automatic option to be cynical and distrustful, but I can't help but shake suspicions...

Most activity I've seen in a while, though...pretty interesting to watch.

[arnoldrimmer]

how does it work anyway? how is it calculatet what a BTC is worth?

[RandyMarsh]

Another HUGE spike.  Just had an order fill to buy at 4.80

Didn't happen, LIES?!

I have a trade at over 6, exceuted 30 seconds after that, there was deffinetly no drop, I however had a buy order in at 4.89 similtaniously which did not get filled. So gox is up to its old tricks of selectively filling random orders, so the data is correct, trades are being executed at these ridiculous prices randomly, thus defeating the point of the exchange.

Mark Karpeles, Take responsibility.

[Gabi]

Easy, it just check the last price at wich a transaction happened.

If i sell you bitcoins at 6$ each then bitcoin price is 6$ because people buy and sell them at that price.

[Villem Anton]

...

I have a trade at over 6, exceuted 30 seconds after that, there was deffinetly no drop, I however had a buy order in at 4.89 similtaniously which did not get filled. So gox is up to its old tricks of selectively filling random orders, so the data is correct, trades are being executed at these ridiculous prices randomly, thus defeating the point of the exchange.

Mark Karpeles, Take responsibility.

Well someone should call these amatures at mtgox and have them close trading for now. They most likely have a bug and someone is taking advantage of it at this very moment!

[Nagle]

I'm betting on another MtGox bug.  They've just opened 15 new currencies.  Chances are something went wrong.

That's what I suspect.

Now that Mt. Gox offers trading in multiple currencies, they're effectively a FOREX market. That may draw the attention of people who aren't interested in Bitcoins, but can take advantage of Mt. Gox's general ineptitude. If Mt. Gox gets a currency conversion rate even slightly wrong, they can be clobbered.

Mt. Gox isn't saying what their FOREX fees and spreads are.  If they're buying and selling currencies with no spread and no fee other than their Bitcoin trading fee, they're exploitable.

[anu]

Mt. Gox isn't saying what their FOREX fees and spreads are.  If they're buying and selling currencies with no spread and no fee other than their Bitcoin trading fee, they're exploitable.

I am under the impression that you always have to go through Bitcoin on MtGox. That makes 2 fees for each currency conversion.

[BCEmporium]

TradeHill already has it, and it doesn't mean you can trade USD for EUR there, for an instance, it just means you can buy or sell BTC from and to USD or EUR. If you want to convert USD to EUR you would need to go through BTC first.

[Nagle]

Mt. Gox isn't saying what their FOREX fees and spreads are.  If they're buying and selling currencies with no spread and no fee other than their Bitcoin trading fee, they're exploitable.

I am under the impression that you always have to go through Bitcoin on MtGox. That makes 2 fees for each currency conversion.

Currently the only withdrawal options on their site are USD and EUR. It's not clear that they fully support transactions in other currencies.

[Nagle]

With Mt. Gox having a flaky period again, I'd suggest pulling all assets out of Mt. Gox. If you're not going to trade it in the next 24 hours, get your money out. You can always put it back in later if you want to trade.

(This can't cause a "run" on Mt. Gox, since they supposedly have 100% of the customer's assets. And if they don't, it's better to know sooner than later.)

[dserrano5]

If you're not going to trade it in the next 24 hours, get your money out.

24 hours is more than enough to see the price reach that $2 some people is talking about. Now *that* is a serious buying opportunity in the short term.

[fcmatt]

well whatever happened.. i was glad to sell a few more BTC above 6 dollars today.

edited to add: hurry up transfer.. i want to shortly sell a couple more above 7 if things go right ;-)

[rebuilder]

With Mt. Gox having a flaky period again, I'd suggest pulling all assets out of Mt. Gox. If you're not going to trade it in the next 24

I considered this. Unfortunately, withdrawing EUR ( in my case) is too much of a hassle, and converting my USD assets to Bitcoin to withdraw seems very risky at this point.

[mb300sd]

With Mt. Gox having a flaky period again, I'd suggest pulling all assets out of Mt. Gox. If you're not going to trade it in the next 24

I considered this. Unfortunately, withdrawing EUR ( in my case) is too much of a hassle, and converting my USD assets to Bitcoin to withdraw seems very risky at this point.

I think you can open a Dwolla without a bank account and just transfer usd between it and mtgox.

[dooglus]

Mt. Gox isn't saying what their FOREX fees and spreads are.  If they're buying and selling currencies with no spread and no fee other than their Bitcoin trading fee, they're exploitable.

They don't say, but if you look any non-USD orderbook you can see by the gap between bid and ask prices that they're charging 2.5% on all non-USD trades in addition to the 0.6% or so commission.  So they're fine so long as they're within 3% of the correct price.

[dooglus]

Here's the part of http://mtgox.com/api/0/data/getTrades.php where the price spiked.  Note the isolated trades over $10.  Looks like it must be a bug in the order matching:

Code:

{"date":1315753350,"price":"8.56343","amount":"0.1","price_int":"856343","amount_int":"10000000","tid":"1315753350781803","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"8.51303","amount":"36.81","price_int":"851303","amount_int":"3681000000","tid":"1315753350846659","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"5.51206","amount":"0.51","price_int":"551206","amount_int":"51000000","tid":"1315753350870615","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"5.51205","amount":"9.51","price_int":"551205","amount_int":"951000000","tid":"1315753350900809","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"8.51105","amount":"4.05","price_int":"851105","amount_int":"405000000","tid":"1315753350960337","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"8.51103","amount":"28.5702","price_int":"851103","amount_int":"2857020000","tid":"1315753350982440","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753351,"price":"8.51102","amount":"3.05","price_int":"851102","amount_int":"305000000","tid":"1315753351004599","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753351,"price":"10.50328","amount":"5","price_int":"1050328","amount_int":"500000000","tid":"1315753351032421","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753352,"price":"8.50227","amount":"33.99","price_int":"850227","amount_int":"3399000000","tid":"1315753352779862","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753352,"price":"8.50227","amount":"10.6","price_int":"850227","amount_int":"1060000000","tid":"1315753352983925","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753353,"price":"8.50227","amount":"6.885","price_int":"850227","amount_int":"688500000","tid":"1315753353111261","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753353,"price":"5.50227","amount":"2.84442602","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"284442602","tid":"1315753353208319","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753362,"price":"5.50227","amount":"35","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"3500000000","tid":"1315753362025600","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753374,"price":"5.50217","amount":"1.1","price_int":"550217","amount_int":"110000000","tid":"1315753374882708","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753407,"price":"5.50217","amount":"19","price_int":"550217","amount_int":"1900000000","tid":"1315753407440568","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753408,"price":"12.50028","amount":"50.56934435","price_int":"1250028","amount_int":"5056934435","tid":"1315753408850547","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753420,"price":"5.50207","amount":"21","price_int":"550207","amount_int":"2100000000","tid":"1315753420123491","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753420,"price":"5.50227","amount":"9","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"900000000","tid":"1315753420149017","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753445,"price":"5.50227","amount":"8.51","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"851000000","tid":"1315753445862485","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},

edit (Sun Sep 11 19:39:05 PDT 2011) : fixed URL - getTrades,php, not getDepth.php

[johnj]

Here's the part of http://mtgox.com/api/0/data/getDepth.php where the price spiked.  Note the isolated trades over $10.  Looks like it must be a bug in the order matching:

Ruh roh

[dooglus]

Here's the part of http://mtgox.com/api/0/data/getDepth.php where the price spiked.  Note the isolated trades over $10.  Looks like it must be a bug in the order matching:

Code:

{"date":1315753350,"price":"8.56343","amount":"0.1","price_int":"856343","amount_int":"10000000","tid":"1315753350781803","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"8.51303","amount":"36.81","price_int":"851303","amount_int":"3681000000","tid":"1315753350846659","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"5.51206","amount":"0.51","price_int":"551206","amount_int":"51000000","tid":"1315753350870615","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"5.51205","amount":"9.51","price_int":"551205","amount_int":"951000000","tid":"1315753350900809","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"8.51105","amount":"4.05","price_int":"851105","amount_int":"405000000","tid":"1315753350960337","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"8.51103","amount":"28.5702","price_int":"851103","amount_int":"2857020000","tid":"1315753350982440","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753351,"price":"8.51102","amount":"3.05","price_int":"851102","amount_int":"305000000","tid":"1315753351004599","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753351,"price":"10.50328","amount":"5","price_int":"1050328","amount_int":"500000000","tid":"1315753351032421","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753352,"price":"8.50227","amount":"33.99","price_int":"850227","amount_int":"3399000000","tid":"1315753352779862","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753352,"price":"8.50227","amount":"10.6","price_int":"850227","amount_int":"1060000000","tid":"1315753352983925","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753353,"price":"8.50227","amount":"6.885","price_int":"850227","amount_int":"688500000","tid":"1315753353111261","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753353,"price":"5.50227","amount":"2.84442602","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"284442602","tid":"1315753353208319","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753362,"price":"5.50227","amount":"35","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"3500000000","tid":"1315753362025600","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753374,"price":"5.50217","amount":"1.1","price_int":"550217","amount_int":"110000000","tid":"1315753374882708","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753407,"price":"5.50217","amount":"19","price_int":"550217","amount_int":"1900000000","tid":"1315753407440568","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753408,"price":"12.50028","amount":"50.56934435","price_int":"1250028","amount_int":"5056934435","tid":"1315753408850547","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753420,"price":"5.50207","amount":"21","price_int":"550207","amount_int":"2100000000","tid":"1315753420123491","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753420,"price":"5.50227","amount":"9","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"900000000","tid":"1315753420149017","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753445,"price":"5.50227","amount":"8.51","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"851000000","tid":"1315753445862485","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},

If you ignore the dollar price and just look at the cents, it's a very smooth price movement.  (.50227 to (5).50227 to (12).50028.  I wonder what kind of a programming error could cause this.

[old_engineer]

If you ignore the dollar price and just look at the cents, it's a very smooth price movement.  (.50227 to (5).50227 to (12).50028.  I wonder what kind of a programming error could cause this.

Ding ding ding we have a winner!  At least we know that they're doing integer matching.  And we can also conclude that either they have no regression testing in place, or it's grossly insufficient, 'cause this is just a stupid programming error that should be caught by automated regression testing.

[opticbit]

Bots rely on pricing data to make their decisions.

Guess what happens when they get fed a bunch of bogus data?

Right, I didn't think of that. But the bot writers should know this problem, as it has been there for a while already. Still, it is a possible explanation.

I'm not so sure whether Mtgox gives warranty of their feeds being correct 100% of the time. I agree that this is very questionable, but might still be the case.

Imagine the NASDAQ reporting AAPL spiking to $900 a share and back again with no order executed in between.  There would be questions asked, to say teh least.

Scottrade did this with NWA around the time of the Delta merger announcement.  Went from $~4 to ~$400 for a minute and back to normal.

[skull88]

With Mt. Gox having a flaky period again, I'd suggest pulling all assets out of Mt. Gox. If you're not going to trade it in the next 24

I considered this. Unfortunately, withdrawing EUR ( in my case) is too much of a hassle, and converting my USD assets to Bitcoin to withdraw seems very risky at this point.

US Dollar to Euro currency (SEPA zone)

Why don't use this option? 

[Cluster2k]

Well, I wake up this morning and the massive volatility returned.  It let me get rid of some bitcoins in the low $7 range but even those Asks were too low.  These massive and on the surface irrational looking trades are very interesting, to say the least.

[dooglus]

Checking the same getTrades.php API now shows that the trades at 8.5, 10.5, 12.5 have disappeared from the trade history:

This is the same time period as I pasted a couple of posts up from here, and now only the nine 5.5 trades still exist in that time range:

Code:

{"date":1315753350,"price":"5.51206","amount":"0.51","price_int":"551206","amount_int":"51000000","tid":"1315753350870615","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753350,"price":"5.51205","amount":"9.51","price_int":"551205","amount_int":"951000000","tid":"1315753350900809","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"ask"},
{"date":1315753353,"price":"5.50227","amount":"2.84442602","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"284442602","tid":"1315753353208319","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753362,"price":"5.50227","amount":"35","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"3500000000","tid":"1315753362025600","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753374,"price":"5.50217","amount":"1.1","price_int":"550217","amount_int":"110000000","tid":"1315753374882708","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753407,"price":"5.50217","amount":"19","price_int":"550217","amount_int":"1900000000","tid":"1315753407440568","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753420,"price":"5.50207","amount":"21","price_int":"550207","amount_int":"2100000000","tid":"1315753420123491","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753420,"price":"5.50227","amount":"9","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"900000000","tid":"1315753420149017","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},
{"date":1315753445,"price":"5.50227","amount":"8.51","price_int":"550227","amount_int":"851000000","tid":"1315753445862485","price_currency":"USD","item":"BTC","trade_type":"bid"},

Did an explanation from MtGox appear anywhere, whether official or unofficial?

[Edward50]

Well, I wake up this morning and the massive volatility returned.  It let me get rid of some bitcoins in the low $7 range but even those Asks were too low.  These massive and on the surface irrational looking trades are very interesting, to say the least.

What is Odd is that it somehow got the price to go higher and currently stay higher. Makes me wonder what is going on. Now it looks like the Bid orders are getting bloated again.

I seriously doubt that the average person is going to buy bitcoins at this range, when they just got beaten pretty badly lately and most likely the price will probably go back down.

This is why I think its someone or some kind of cartel working here on the pricing. Maybe its just bots also. But it is definitely not a rational person doing this.