96000 BTC - Withdrawing (laundering), not anonymous?

[ajhijaja]

I just read at Wikipedia.org about that guy, who has stolen 96000 BTC.

In late November 2013, as many as 96,000 bitcoins were stolen from the online drug website Sheep Marketplace. Users were able to track and trace the theft although the thief made efforts to launder transactions through a process called "tumbling". Although the coins were successfully traced they have not yet been recovered.

And I was thinking. This guy could be really really really  rich. But is he really? I don't know much about BTC, but it keeps (every server keeps it?) track of all transactions? So if he moves BTC to another account, there should be no problem in tracking him down. And once try to exchange it, he have to reveal his identity (bank account).

So at the end he doesn't own anything and he is in the same situation as before stealing. Am I missing something?

[tsoPANos]

But none will ask him from where he got his coins

[whtchocla7e]

He holds the power to single handedly bring Bitcoin down with a massive DDOS attack. Possibly.

[ajhijaja]

But none will ask him from where he got his coins

That was your BTC > you contact police > they check BTC addresses > they finally find the one, where it was exchanged for real money (there always have to be that bridge BTC account (anonymous) => bank (your name), right?) > they contact bank > they caught him

[keithers]

He holds the power to single handedly bring Bitcoin down with a massive DDOS attack. Possibly.

Doubt it

[franky1]

some people throw large amounts into an exchange and the withdraw small amounts to numberous addresses. and due to the exchanges method of storing coins whilst in the exchange, the deposits never really go to the same person that withdraws. thus most exchanges are also known for being mixers.

some more paranoid users deposit funds into an exchange, swap them for litecoins. withdraw the litecoins and deposit them at another exchange to turn them back into bitcoins again. thus making the funds double mixed and no chance of being the same taint as the theft.

this is a known process that has been around ever since there have been more then 1 exchange that accepts alt coins. so yes laundering funds can be anonymous

imagine it this way if i stole btc and put it into an exchange. the funds i withdraw will not be the same as i deposited. and some one else will eventually be given the tainted coins. so the police will knock on their door.

thus the police/government wont use the blockchain to identify someone. they will use IP searches and username searches to find out information such as email addresses, forum messages which may reveal identifying information. just like how DPR got caught

[Holliday]

He holds the power to single handedly bring Bitcoin down with a massive DDOS attack. Possibly.

LOL!

LOL!
 

Ignoring any technical details, if you owned 96000 bitcoins, would you attempt to "bring Bitcoin down"?

Now, assuming the guy is a nut job who doesn't care about money, perhaps you could explain to us how you "bring Bitcoin down with a massive DDoS attack" using 96000 coins. Please go into detail about all relevant issues such as transaction priority.

[dissident]

upload 25000 coins to every major online exchange that converts to a currency and attempt to withdraw all 25000 coins from each exchange in a local currency all at the same time. Unlikely any of the 4 exchanges could do it.

The generous thing to do would be simply post a giveaway thread here and give away 10 bitcoins to the first 9600 replies to the thread. Gives a person an idea of the scope of just how many bitcoins the very few have in their possession.

[whtchocla7e]

He holds the power to single handedly bring Bitcoin down with a massive DDOS attack. Possibly.

LOL!

LOL!
 

Ignoring any technical details, if you owned 96000 bitcoins, would you attempt to "bring Bitcoin down"?

Now, assuming the guy is a nut job who doesn't care about money, perhaps you could explain to us how you "bring Bitcoin down with a massive DDoS attack" using 96000 coins. Please go into detail about all relevant issues such as transaction priority.

I won't tell you how to do it but it's not really hard to think about... How does 15 days of downtime sound? Enough to make a dent?

[renee25]

in a worse case scenario, if all those, laundered, coins are dump on mtgox it will bring the price down to 100 for a few days but nothing else,
when he tries to withdraw he will have to get in line with everyone else, and wait months or years to get the money out of there as there are withdrawall limits.

[jongameson]

in a worse case scenario, if all those, laundered, coins are dump on mtgox it will bring the price down to 100 for a few days but nothing else,
when he tries to withdraw he will have to get in line with everyone else, and wait months or years to get the money out of there as there are withdrawall limits.

u assume Mt. Gox has a market sell option.  i think it's only Limit order, or else more people would be using it.  i mean who wants to type in a price.  we just want MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!

[profall]

There's a few altcoins working on anonymous transactions. All he'd have to do is trade the BTC into the anonymous altcoin on one of the various multi-coin exchanges and then convert it back to BTC/LTC in random amounts.

[Cryptopher]

some people throw large amounts into an exchange and the withdraw small amounts to numberous addresses. and due to the exchanges method of storing coins whilst in the exchange, the deposits never really go to the same person that withdraws. thus most exchanges are also known for being mixers.

some more paranoid users deposit funds into an exchange, swap them for litecoins. withdraw the litecoins and deposit them at another exchange to turn them back into bitcoins again. thus making the funds double mixed and no chance of being the same taint as the theft.

this is a known process that has been around ever since there have been more then 1 exchange that accepts alt coins. so yes laundering funds can be anonymous

imagine it this way if i stole btc and put it into an exchange. the funds i withdraw will not be the same as i deposited. and some one else will eventually be given the tainted coins. so the police will knock on their door.

thus the police/government wont use the blockchain to identify someone. they will use IP searches and username searches to find out information such as email addresses, forum messages which may reveal identifying information. just like how DPR got caught

Some excellent points made there. Of course you would expect such a thief to cover all tracks, having learned from cases like DPR - though there could be a banana peel somewhere along the way.

[BTCisthefuture]

There are certainly ways you can launder bitcoin and not get caught. Just like the same is true for cash.

I do believe though that the blockchain provides a better opportunity for law enforcement to catch money launders and other type of criminals than whats currently present with cash.

[Treggar]

Is there any evidence that law enforcement would assist with this kind of thing though?

Would they take it seriously?

Could I call the cops if I get scammed out of 96,000 gold in WoW?

[lensgrabber]

I just read at Wikipedia.org about that guy, who has stolen 96000 BTC.

In late November 2013, as many as 96,000 bitcoins were stolen from the online drug website Sheep Marketplace. Users were able to track and trace the theft although the thief made efforts to launder transactions through a process called "tumbling". Although the coins were successfully traced they have not yet been recovered.

And I was thinking. This guy could be really really really  rich. But is he really? I don't know much about BTC, but it keeps (every server keeps it?) track of all transactions? So if he moves BTC to another account, there should be no problem in tracking him down. And once try to exchange it, he have to reveal his identity (bank account).

So at the end he doesn't own anything and he is in the same situation as before stealing. Am I missing something?

He has access to 96,000 bitcoins even if it's by theft and even if there is a price on his head (at 75 mil+ you know there is a contract on this guy).  That amount could easily be tumbled over years and if done properly would be difficult to trace to a specific person. I just hope these coins slowly make it back into circulation and not hoarded. 

[angrynerd88]

he could divide them in many small parts and sell them to private withouth revealing his identity....but it would be hard. If he knows some rich person interested he can sell btc with a good price and that person will deny to know that the guy who sold the btc was a thief, and will refuse to give his identity, or will say not to know it.

[zeetubes]

If you have a big stash, probably the best way to unload bitcoins, without crashing the market, is to spend them. I could make a serious dent in TigerDirect's inventory, or I could rent or buy a few nice properties around the world, stock up on clothes etc. seems to be a win-win situation for all concerned.