How to transfer USD from btc-e.com to Indian bank?

[kjaiswal]

Can I use international bank wire, what is SWIFT/ABA?

[subvolatil]

Can I use international bank wire, what is SWIFT/ABA?

Contact you bank to get that detail.

[kjaiswal]

thanks I will try that!

[thenoblebot]

Can I use international bank wire, what is SWIFT/ABA?

Contact you bank to get that detail.

Isn't there a big chance he might get into trouble with FEMA/regulation stuff ? I don't think its a good idea to contact the bank .. instead why not convert it to btc and sell them off locally. That seems much safer.

[subvolatil]

Can I use international bank wire, what is SWIFT/ABA?

Contact you bank to get that detail.

Isn't there a big chance he might get into trouble with FEMA/regulation stuff ? I don't think its a good idea to contact the bank .. instead why not convert it to btc and sell them off locally. That seems much safer.

He is only asking for the details. FEMA/regulation stuff would be applied if he is actually laundering money, as long as he is able to show how he got the BTC and how is is receiving the Fiat there is nothing illegal in that.

money laundering is mostly used to hide earnings and wealth from the authorities. If a person has money to hide and does not want to pay tax on that money he will use elaborate measures to clean that money. At this moment In India Bitcoins are impossible to be used as money laundering system because of the low volumes. (Volumes in india was always low, some where to about a few thousand BTC). Even at high Volume market, money laundering is impossible because of the volatility of the bitcoin. 

[thenoblebot]

Can I use international bank wire, what is SWIFT/ABA?

Contact you bank to get that detail.

Isn't there a big chance he might get into trouble with FEMA/regulation stuff ? I don't think its a good idea to contact the bank .. instead why not convert it to btc and sell them off locally. That seems much safer.

He is only asking for the details. FEMA/regulation stuff would be applied if he is actually laundering money, as long as he is able to show how he got the BTC and how is is receiving the Fiat there is nothing illegal in that.

money laundering is mostly used to hide earnings and wealth from the authorities. If a person has money to hide and does not want to pay tax on that money he will use elaborate measures to clean that money. At this moment In India Bitcoins are impossible to be used as money laundering system because of the low volumes. (Volumes in india was always low, some where to about a few thousand BTC). Even at high Volume market, money laundering is impossible because of the volatility of the bitcoin. 

I don't think so , reason being one is not allowed to have an account like paypal unless one has linked their bank account to it. So in this case when one is selling it is selling for USD and I'm not sure if its legal to already have cash in there without having taken permission from the bank/authorities. Right now the bank might view it as an unauthorised channel/account where his funds are held.

Correct me if I am wrong.

TLDR : Only authorized entities are able to issue foriegn exchange under 4.2 here http://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/bs_viewcontent.aspx?Id=1902 . Also there is a clause which says these institutions have to have an AML/KYC policy in place. BTC-e does not fall into either category.

[subvolatil]

Can I use international bank wire, what is SWIFT/ABA?

Contact you bank to get that detail.

Isn't there a big chance he might get into trouble with FEMA/regulation stuff ? I don't think its a good idea to contact the bank .. instead why not convert it to btc and sell them off locally. That seems much safer.

He is only asking for the details. FEMA/regulation stuff would be applied if he is actually laundering money, as long as he is able to show how he got the BTC and how is is receiving the Fiat there is nothing illegal in that.

money laundering is mostly used to hide earnings and wealth from the authorities. If a person has money to hide and does not want to pay tax on that money he will use elaborate measures to clean that money. At this moment In India Bitcoins are impossible to be used as money laundering system because of the low volumes. (Volumes in india was always low, some where to about a few thousand BTC). Even at high Volume market, money laundering is impossible because of the volatility of the bitcoin. 

I don't think so , reason being one is not allowed to have an account like paypal unless one has linked their bank account to it. So in this case when one is selling it is selling for USD and I'm not sure if its legal to already have cash in there without having taken permission from the bank/authorities. Right now the bank might view it as an unauthorised channel/account where his funds are held.

Correct me if I am wrong.

TLDR : Only authorized entities are able to issue foriegn exchange under 4.2 here http://www.rbi.org.in/Scripts/bs_viewcontent.aspx?Id=1902 . Also there is a clause which says these institutions have to have an AML/KYC policy in place. BTC-e does not fall into either category.

The rules you are quoting applies to businesses that are running in india. Paypal is also in india and wants to run its business. so they have to follow what ever rules the RBI sets by them. However for a exchange like btc-e it is governed by the rules of the country it is registered in.

When some one sends money via wire transfer there is an electronic trail from the sender to the receiver. so getting money from btc-e can be proven from the money transfer. now on the BTC side, if the government wants to know where he got the btc from the BTC blockchain provides the transfer details.

Remember KYC is some thing companies need to follow. if a Indian company does not follow KYC rules in india they are liable to it, not the customer. If the customer is doing thing all legal he then cannot be charged for doing some thing legal. If the customer engages in illegal activities, the investigating authorities need to investigate it first and collect evidence before charging anyone of a crime. Corpus delicti applies like any other crime.

[thenoblebot]

From the guideline :

2.2 Holder: Individuals/Organizations who acquire prepaid payment instruments for purchase of goods and services.

So its not just businesses. That's the thing with btc and the like .. its quite murky to interpret it legally until there are clarifications from the RBI itself. All the interpretations that have been put forth till now have not been tested in a court of law. That's why I am a bit hesitant about the whole thing.

[subvolatil]

From the guideline :

2.2 Holder: Individuals/Organizations who acquire prepaid payment instruments for purchase of goods and services.

So its not just businesses. That's the thing with btc and the like .. its quite murky to interpret it legally until there are clarifications from the RBI itself. All the interpretations that have been put forth till now have not been tested in a court of law. That's why I am a bit hesitant about the whole thing.

The thing is that BTC is not prepaid.

[thenoblebot]

From the guideline :

2.2 Holder: Individuals/Organizations who acquire prepaid payment instruments for purchase of goods and services.

So its not just businesses. That's the thing with btc and the like .. its quite murky to interpret it legally until there are clarifications from the RBI itself. All the interpretations that have been put forth till now have not been tested in a court of law. That's why I am a bit hesitant about the whole thing.

The thing is that BTC is not prepaid.

Again from the guidelines :

2.3 Prepaid Payment Instruments: Prepaid payment instruments are payment instruments that facilitate purchase of goods and services against the value stored on such instruments. The value stored on such instruments represents the value paid for by the holder, by cash, by debit to a bank account, or by credit card. The Prepaid instruments can be issued as smart cards, magnetic stripe cards, internet accounts, internet wallets, mobile accounts, mobile wallets, paper vouchers and any such instruments which can be used to access the prepaid amount (collectively called Payment Instruments hereafter).

So when you say "The thing is that BTC is not prepaid." (again one could possibly contest that too) .. what you are forgetting is that the amount held at BTC-e might qualify to be so.

Again I am not legal expert but have tried to look into this as closely as possible (not claiming authority over the subject). Maybe this thread might benefit others.

[escrow.ms]

How much you want to transfer? I can buy your USD codes and give you INR in any bank account.

[subvolatil]

How much you want to transfer? I can buy your USD codes and give you INR in any bank account.

+1

[kjaiswal]

How much you want to transfer? I can buy your USD codes and give you INR in any bank account.

+1 works for me, others who want the same can avail these codes; and we can save on fee(s)

[thenoblebot]

How much you want to transfer? I can buy your USD codes and give you INR in any bank account.

+1 works for me, others who want the same can avail these codes; and we can save on fee(s)

Nice work  .... i think such a thing will save many others the effort of doing it through a bank - which sounds not so convincing for now.

Sr trusted members can act escrow perhaps .. so the deals can be smoother.

[Ranjha]

Can I use international bank wire, what is SWIFT/ABA?

If you want to transfer money in your account use paypal

[Benson Samuel]

From the guideline :

2.2 Holder: Individuals/Organizations who acquire prepaid payment instruments for purchase of goods and services.

So its not just businesses. That's the thing with btc and the like .. its quite murky to interpret it legally until there are clarifications from the RBI itself. All the interpretations that have been put forth till now have not been tested in a court of law. That's why I am a bit hesitant about the whole thing.

The thing is that BTC is not prepaid.

Again from the guidelines :

2.3 Prepaid Payment Instruments: Prepaid payment instruments are payment instruments that facilitate purchase of goods and services against the value stored on such instruments. The value stored on such instruments represents the value paid for by the holder, by cash, by debit to a bank account, or by credit card. The Prepaid instruments can be issued as smart cards, magnetic stripe cards, internet accounts, internet wallets, mobile accounts, mobile wallets, paper vouchers and any such instruments which can be used to access the prepaid amount (collectively called Payment Instruments hereafter).

So when you say "The thing is that BTC is not prepaid." (again one could possibly contest that too) .. what you are forgetting is that the amount held at BTC-e might qualify to be so.

Again I am not legal expert but have tried to look into this as closely as possible (not claiming authority over the subject). Maybe this thread might benefit others.

It does not come under prepaid regulations as prepaid solutions are defined with a fixed value on the device/ Card.

[thenoblebot]

It does not come under prepaid regulations as prepaid solutions are defined with a fixed value on the device/ Card.

Doesn't the USD held in a BTC-e account come under that ? Isn't that fixed value. Also can you point me to where it does say that its fixed value because look below.

Also what does this line mean then in this context ?

The value stored on such instruments represents the value paid for by the holder, by cash, by debit to a bank account, or by credit card

PS: Do we have a legality thread for BTC ? I mean besides the 2 interpretations of Vijayshanker and CIS ... if not then maybe we should have one and all of us can be devil's advocate and try to find faults in such situation from a legal perspective. Maybe it will just be a good excercise in giving clarity. Or maybe I just don't understand law

[subvolatil]

Doesn't the USD held in a BTC-e account come under that ? Isn't that fixed value. Also can you point me to where it does say that its fixed value because look below.

Also what does this line mean then in this context ?

No because BTC-e is not a Indian company. the laws apply to India only.

PS: Do we have a legality thread for BTC ? I mean besides the 2 interpretations of Vijayshanker and CIS ... if not then maybe we should have one and all of us can be devil's advocate and try to find faults in such situation from a legal perspective. Maybe it will just be a good excercise in giving clarity. Or maybe I just don't understand law Cheesy

This  has been  extensively discussed in the early days of the Indian subforum,

[thenoblebot]

Doesn't the USD held in a BTC-e account come under that ? Isn't that fixed value. Also can you point me to where it does say that its fixed value because look below.

Also what does this line mean then in this context ?

No because BTC-e is not a Indian company. the laws apply to India only.

PS: Do we have a legality thread for BTC ? I mean besides the 2 interpretations of Vijayshanker and CIS ... if not then maybe we should have one and all of us can be devil's advocate and try to find faults in such situation from a legal perspective. Maybe it will just be a good excercise in giving clarity. Or maybe I just don't understand law Cheesy

This  has been  extensively discussed in the early days of the Indian subforum,

So why do you think payment systems like payoneer and paxum don't work in India ? if your allowed to have funds in them then what stops those companies ? RBI

[subvolatil]

Doesn't the USD held in a BTC-e account come under that ? Isn't that fixed value. Also can you point me to where it does say that its fixed value because look below.

Also what does this line mean then in this context ?

No because BTC-e is not a Indian company. the laws apply to India only.

PS: Do we have a legality thread for BTC ? I mean besides the 2 interpretations of Vijayshanker and CIS ... if not then maybe we should have one and all of us can be devil's advocate and try to find faults in such situation from a legal perspective. Maybe it will just be a good excercise in giving clarity. Or maybe I just don't understand law Cheesy

This  has been  extensively discussed in the early days of the Indian subforum,

So why do you think payment systems like payoneer and paxum don't work in India ? if your allowed to have funds in them then what stops those companies ? RBI

Payment systems overall dont work in india except Credit Cards. (Talking on a global scale).

dont know the answer to the second part of the question, but it could be a company policy they have to operate in those countries where they are allowed to work according to their business policies.