Regards to Argentinian crisis - why isn't Btc skyrocketing?

[billyjoeallen]

If Argentinians don't see the value of Bitcoin, then the only way to help them is to teach them the value of bitcoin. If they don't learn, they are in for a very hard time. If they do learn, they will trade whatever they have for them. If you want something bad enough, you do whatever you have to do to get it. The poor trade their labor. the rich trade their assets. Many of us here would love to travel to that beautiful country if we could get a favorable exchange rate. And we mostly don't care if the exchange is legal or not. It would be win-win.

I don't think the Argentinians realize how bad off a situation they are in. There will be outright starvation at the margins unless some miracle happens. Think Venezuela without the oil revenues. Zimbabwe. Germany between the world wars. In Argentina under the present regime, wealth isn't just being stolen. It's being destroyed. The bitcoiners here would love to help convert some of that wealth to bitcoin, which is the best and possibly only way for them to keep it.

I find that so condescending. You think Argentinians aren't living this crisis 24/7? Watching their savings disappear and country fall apart. Get real. They are as intelligent as anyone else. Just stuck in a near impossible situation.

Then why aren't they offering to trade for bitcoin? I would be. I'd sell everything I could to buy it. I'd offer to trade anything I owned. I'd be offering any services or labor that people would be willing to pay bitcoin for. That's the whole damn point. It's difficult as hell, but it's not an impossible situation. The Cypriots were in a tough spot themselves. They did what they had to do. These are modern people. They have computers and cell phones. Net Access. The solution is right in front of them.

[zimmah]

Exactly, why aren't we seeing more bitcoin in Argentina? Even if bitcoin is volatile, are you afraid it will be worse then the peso?

[empoweoqwj]

Because there aren't any bitcoin vending / ATM machines in Argentina - that would have solved it

Honestly, I don't know. The currency controls are severe, its not easy getting hold of bitcoins quickly if you can't wire money. People in countries with no restrictions complain about difficult it can be to "get started" getting bitcoins, imagine how hard it is in a country that won't let you wire money out.

Is there any evidence that it was actually Cypriots that bought loads of coins during their crisis? Or it was it just "another banking collapse" that encouraged bitcoiners round the world to purchase more coins?

[zimmah]

ye, like their government would allow bitcoin ATMs.

if i was living there i'd either A) Move (if i had the money and opportunity) or B) get as much bitcoin as i can, no matter what the price is. and no matter how hard it is to get them.

if there's a will, there's a way.

[pungopete468]

If they want bitcoin they can get it.

Even if they have a hard time wiring money they can pool small communities and hire a broker who has access to exchanges. They can get it if they want it; it's not like nobody's allowed outside of the country.

[empoweoqwj]

If they want bitcoin they can get it.

Even if they have a hard time wiring money they can pool small communities and hire a broker who has access to exchanges. They can get it if they want it; it's not like nobody's allowed outside of the country.

True - but  all of this takes time to organize and do - I hope some are doing it as we speak.

[kellrobinson]

I see comments on this thread which don't have much connection to reality.   I've been to Argentina a couple of times and traveled around the country a little, and recently I attended the bitcoin conference in Buenos Aires.  I've exchanged dollars for pesos at "blue" market cuevas in Mendoza and BA, and I've sold bitcoin in Argentina face-to-face.  After I returned to the US, I sent some bitcoin to an Argy friend and he paid me through paypal.  By the way, this is a good way to get btc to people in Argentina.
A theme I notice in this thread is that the Argentinians are somehow self-destructively passing up an obvious opportunity to escape financial disaster.  But think:  how many Argentinians have ever heard about bitcoin, let alone have a clue about it?  I've met people here in the States who never heard the word "bitcoin" until I said it to them.  As for myself, I first noticed news items about bitcoin several years ago, but I never thought much of it.  Because really, why would I?  Why would anyone?  Someone can read a news item about bitcoin or hear it mentioned by a friend, but that doesn't mean they will understand it.  It was not until about eight months ago that I started to see the power of bitcoin.  And I am pretty well informed, I keep up with current events, I have an engineering degree, but it took me a long time to see.  Keep that in mind when you feel like blaming people for not understanding about bitcoin.  Everybody isn't a computer nerd.
If you are immersed in the culture of cryptocurrency, it's possible to develop a parochial mindset.  You may see what others don't, but at the same time you are wearing blinders.

[Junko]

I see comments on this thread which don't have much connection to reality.   I've been to Argentina a couple of times and traveled around the country a little, and recently I attended the bitcoin conference in Buenos Aires.  I've exchanged dollars for pesos at "blue" market cuevas in Mendoza and BA, and I've sold bitcoin in Argentina face-to-face.  After I returned to the US, I sent some bitcoin to an Argy friend and he paid me through paypal.  By the way, this is a good way to get btc to people in Argentina.
A theme I notice in this thread is that the Argentinians are somehow self-destructively passing up an obvious opportunity to escape financial disaster.  But think:  how many Argentinians have ever heard about bitcoin, let alone have a clue about it?  I've met people here in the States who never heard the word "bitcoin" until I said it to them.  As for myself, I first noticed news items about bitcoin several years ago, but I never thought much of it.  Because really, why would I?  Why would anyone?  Someone can read a news item about bitcoin or hear it mentioned by a friend, but that doesn't mean they will understand it.  It was not until about eight months ago that I started to see the power of bitcoin.  And I am pretty well informed, I keep up with current events, I have an engineering degree, but it took me a long time to see.  Keep that in mind when you feel like blaming people for not understanding about bitcoin.  Everybody isn't a computer nerd.
If you are immersed in the culture of cryptocurrency, it's possible to develop a parochial mindset.  You may see what others don't, but at the same time you are wearing blinders.

This^+1

[zimmah]

PayPal is too risky because of chargebacks.

[HairyMaclairy]

Zip zap has an office in Buenos Aires.  Wonder what effect that will have.

[kellrobinson]

PayPal is too risky because of chargebacks.

You are right.  I was selling to the same guy I dealt with in person down in Argentina.  I trust the guy. 
Dealing with someone you haven't met would be unwise, unless you go through escrow.

[byronbb]

What is the btc-ars exchange anyways? Localbitcoins is implying the prices are actually pretty high.

[harami]

BTC is not skyrocketing because ordinary Argentinians have no use for them. Argentinians use US Dollar as inflation hedge, store of value and de facto currency for all but smallest transactions since the default/depression of 2000.
Those who have pesos are trying to buy liquid and "safe" USD's or other hard/liquid assets, BTC being impractical/irrelevant to their daily survival routine.

[aminorex]

Argentinians use US Dollar as inflation hedge, store of value and de facto currency

OMG, that is so sad.

[bitcoinlitcoinbtcltc]

OP is a troll. Only a troll would expect a country in a financial crisis to invest the little money they have left into something as unsecure, unstable, unreliable and volatile as bitcoin. Bitcoin = death sentence for them. You really think they are going to buy digital codes which could be worth $0.01 tomorrow, instead of bread, or milk for their children?

[pungopete468]

OP is a troll. Only a troll would expect a country in a financial crisis to invest the little money they have left into something as unsecure, unstable, unreliable and volatile as bitcoin. Bitcoin = death sentence for them. You really think they are going to buy digital codes which could be worth $0.01 tomorrow, instead of bread, or milk for their children?

lol

The centralized currency they already have stands a much greater chance of being worthless than Bitcoin; particularly in the short term. I think your opinion is greatly influenced by your own emotion.

The BTC price is volatile for sure, but it's been volatile in an upward fashion.

Nobody can claim to know the future of Bitcoin and we obviously disagree. I believe if the US was interested in shutting down BTC they would have taken that position after the Silk Road at the Senate hearing... I don't see that changing now.

[zimmah]

OP is a troll. Only a troll would expect a country in a financial crisis to invest the little money they have left into something as unsecure, unstable, unreliable and volatile as bitcoin. Bitcoin = death sentence for them. You really think they are going to buy digital codes which could be worth $0.01 tomorrow, instead of bread, or milk for their children?

sure, bitcoin has been really unstable the past few months, tell me more about how +12% (Bitcoin) in the past 30 days is better then -10% in the past 30 days (Argentine Peso)

For your information, the peso has dropped by 10% every month since like, i don't know 2000 or so, at least for 2 years, probably longer

Bitcoin on the other hand, has an average of about +23% a month, and it rarely EVER decreases in value over a 30 day period.

Volitility =/= unsecure

Argentine peso aren't 'volitile' per se, they're on a 'steady' exponential decline. But i'd trade a volatile asset like bitcoin, that is bound to go up in value in the long term over a 'stable' asset that is known to go down in the long term any day.

Because i'm not in for the short time, i'm in for the long term.


Also, while USD may not be AS bad as the peso (at least not right now) it's still pretty bad.

[ampere9765]

Argentinians use US Dollar as inflation hedge, store of value and de facto currency

OMG, that is so sad.

not entirely unreasonable, though, when taking a good, hard look at the Argentinian peso.

[DieJohnny]

This is a great post because it proves that failing world economies are not going to necessarily drive Bitcoin into the billions upon billions.

There are other factors and those factors keep bitcoin price down. While everyone on this forum thinks bitcoin is sitting like a crouched tiger ready to pounce on fiscal collapse it is simply not true.

1) the mechanics of buying bitcoin are simply too difficult. Don't give me all the reasons it is easy. This simple difficulty problem with technology has been 20+ years in the problem solving era. Periodically we have iPhones that come along and tear down the difficulty barriers, but only partially. Bitcoin as technology is inaccessible to 99% of the population.

Think of it this way, training on money happens from the age of 4 when teeth start coming out. You could argue you need no training on money. But getting my non-smartphone, college drop out, mcdonalds working neighbor's kid to ever be in a comfortable situation to buy bitcoin is simply a mountain that this technology currently cannot climb.

Unless bitcoin develops a universally simple delivery mechanism that my grandma on the internet could do after reading one bitcoin article, bitcoin will be a niche investment. Which is why we still need time to develop more technology to support the willing buyers.

2) the penetration of bitcoin owners into society has only just begun. I talk to people EVERY day that have never heard of bitcoin. If I ask someone on the street if the know about bitcoin, some might give me a sideways look like "don't think i am stupid but i really haven't looked into it nor do I care"

[empoweoqwj]

This is a great post because it proves that failing world economies are not going to necessarily drive Bitcoin into the billions upon billions.

There are other factors and those factors keep bitcoin price down. While everyone on this forum thinks bitcoin is sitting like a crouched tiger ready to pounce on fiscal collapse it is simply not true.

1) the mechanics of buying bitcoin are simply too difficult. Don't give me all the reasons it is easy. This simple difficulty problem with technology has been 20+ years in the problem solving era. Periodically we have iPhones that come along and tear down the difficulty barriers, but only partially. Bitcoin as technology is inaccessible to 99% of the population.

Think of it this way, training on money happens from the age of 4 when teeth start coming out. You could argue you need no training on money. But getting my non-smartphone, college drop out, mcdonalds working neighbor's kid to ever be in a comfortable situation to buy bitcoin is simply a mountain that this technology currently cannot climb.

Unless bitcoin develops a universally simple delivery mechanism that my grandma on the internet could do after reading one bitcoin article, bitcoin will be a niche investment. Which is why we still need time to develop more technology to support the willing buyers.

2) the penetration of bitcoin owners into society has only just begun. I talk to people EVERY day that have never heard of bitcoin. If I ask someone on the street if the know about bitcoin, some might give me a sideways look like "don't think i am stupid but i really haven't looked into it nor do I care"

Thankfully the age of "bitcoins being hard to buy" will die in most countries in 2014. Bitcoin vending machines, ATMS, zipzap outlets, the list will get longer and longer. Not every country of course, but most. By end of 2014 it will be as easy to buy bitcoins as beer