DogeCoin already bigger than Litecoin

[Zzzack]

This seems to assume 100% of new coins mined are sold.

I.e.

 If coin A mines 10,000 coins and 10,000 coins are sold, you have a minimum buy in per day of 10k x price.
 
 If coin B mines 10 million coins and 5 million are sold, you have a minimum of 5 million x price.

So you have to take the trading volume into consideration or else this is a pretty irrelevant stat.

In response to you and the guy above, I would say that this is not an irrelevant stat. This still indicates something. It isn't exactly the 'maintenance cost' because that implies a cost on the currency no matter what. Rather, this is a currency devaluation. Everytime that a coin is mined, its supply grows and it is effectively worth less. These HUGE Doge miners in the pools are getting tons of coins right now, and if you think that they aren't dumping most of them, then get ready for the Doge dump.

[1714048867]

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[toknormal]

This metric is plain bonkers.

The amount of money required to "maintain" the price of anything is a function of the amount of goods supplied **to that market**. Not the amount of goods in existence.

If coins are not reaching the market then their value does not need to be supported by demand, so they can be discounted. You can't just take the number of coins "created" each day and multiply it by the price.

That would be like saying that the "market cap" of Salmon is the price of salmon at my local fish market times the entire amount of salmon on boats, in deepfreezes, etc etc - i.e. "not for sale". If all that extra salmon suddenly arrived at the market and was made available for sale, the price would go down. As far as value is concerned, if it's not for sale it doesn't exist.

Thats why these market cap figures are a bit ridiculous (even the ones on coinmarketcap.com etc). Because the market cap measured in this way goes up even if 1 person buys 1 coin. It suggests that that is the amount of money that's been spent on that coin when that's obviously baloney. Look at Bitcoin - it's got a market cap of 12 billion at the moment which I'm sure suggests to a lot of people that 12 Billion dollars had "gone into" bitcoin.

Whereas in fact, if 2 people bought 2 bitcoins for $1600 each and that was the last traded price, the market cap would suddenly jump to $24 billion ! That's how stupid all these statistics are that are calculated in this way. They are totally misleading toytown doodles that don't tell anyone anything and I really wish folks would take less notice of them.

[wontonforevuh]

This metric is plain bonkers.

The amount of money required to "maintain" the price of anything is a function of the amount of goods supplied **to that market**. Not the amount of goods in existence.

If coins are not reaching the market then their value does not need to be supported by demand, so they can be discounted. You can't just take the number of coins "created" each day and multiply it by the price.

That would be like saying that the "market cap" of Salmon is the price of salmon at my local fish market times the entire amount of salmon on boats, in deepfreezes, etc etc - i.e. "not for sale". If all that extra salmon suddenly arrived at the market and was made available for sale, the price would go down. As far as value is concerned, if it's not for sale it doesn't exist.

Thats why these market cap figures are a bit ridiculous (even the ones on coinmarketcap.com etc). Because the market cap measured in this way goes up even if 1 person buys 1 coin. It suggests that that is the amount of money that's been spent on that coin when that's obviously baloney. Look at Bitcoin - it's got a market cap of 12 billion at the moment which I'm sure suggests to a lot of people that 12 Billion dollars had "gone into" bitcoin.

Whereas in fact, if 2 people bought 2 bitcoins for $1600 each and that was the last traded price, the market cap would suddenly jump to $24 billion ! That's how stupid all these statistics are that are calculated in this way. They are totally misleading toytown doodles that don't tell anyone anything and I really wish folks would take less notice of them.

welcome to how the stockmarket works, genius

[toknormal]

welcome to how the stockmarket works, genius

Stockmarket terms and definitions aren't made up on the "hop" in internet chat forums. They have formal definitions and professional traders know how to interpret them. If a company's marketcap is $50 billion, traders are savy enough to know that people haven't actually "spent" $50 billion on that stock.

Cryptocurrency world is a whole lot different. You can see from this thread that people are making literal interpretations of term "market capitalisation". i.e. as if the coin had been "capitalised" to that value which is clearly hasn't. That misunderstanding isn't necessarily a problem in itself, but as you can see, people then go on to create all sorts of derivative metrics based on those wrong assumptions which then get totally out of hand.

[jballs]

This metric is plain bonkers.

The amount of money required to "maintain" the price of anything is a function of the amount of goods supplied **to that market**. Not the amount of goods in existence.

If coins are not reaching the market then their value does not need to be supported by demand, so they can be discounted. You can't just take the number of coins "created" each day and multiply it by the price.

That would be like saying that the "market cap" of Salmon is the price of salmon at my local fish market times the entire amount of salmon on boats, in deepfreezes, etc etc - i.e. "not for sale". If all that extra salmon suddenly arrived at the market and was made available for sale, the price would go down. As far as value is concerned, if it's not for sale it doesn't exist.

Thats why these market cap figures are a bit ridiculous (even the ones on coinmarketcap.com etc). Because the market cap measured in this way goes up even if 1 person buys 1 coin. It suggests that that is the amount of money that's been spent on that coin when that's obviously baloney. Look at Bitcoin - it's got a market cap of 12 billion at the moment which I'm sure suggests to a lot of people that 12 Billion dollars had "gone into" bitcoin.

Whereas in fact, if 2 people bought 2 bitcoins for $1600 each and that was the last traded price, the market cap would suddenly jump to $24 billion ! That's how stupid all these statistics are that are calculated in this way. They are totally misleading toytown doodles that don't tell anyone anything and I really wish folks would take less notice of them.

welcome to how the stockmarket works, genius

Yes the above is a fairly correct description of market cap (i.e. market capitalization, the total valuation of all outstanding issue at current price). Agreeable to the dumbness of it but it works. As for the OP though this is not applicable either, there are really all kinds of things wrong with it, mostly covered now.

Here is a better formula.

BTC Price / All clone coins outstanding x Growth rate in new clone coins per week

Probably need a gradient for the exponential growth curve but I dropped calculus to take French because of a cute blonde so no help here.

Probably why I went with Vertcoin though.

Point being every altcoin clones will essentially devalue every other as they saturate investment/spec money through exponential growth. Some marketing with perfection may survive at a baseline.

Think... the bottled water section of the grocery store, except if nobody needed water.

[jballs]

welcome to how the stockmarket works, genius

Stockmarket terms and definitions aren't made up on the "hop" in internet chat forums. They have formal definitions and professional traders know how to interpret them. If a company's marketcap is $50 billion, traders are savy enough to know that people haven't actually "spent" $50 billion on that stock.

Cryptocurrency world is a whole lot different. You can see from this thread that people are making literal interpretations of term "market capitalisation". i.e. as if the coin had been "capitalised" to that value which is clearly hasn't. That misunderstanding isn't necessarily a problem in itself, but as you can see, people then go on to create all sorts of derivative metrics based on those wrong assumptions which then get totally out of hand.

No, the average stock trader is as ignorant as the average altcoin trader. Bell curve distribution... and sadly I would have to bet the altcoin traders are actually a much smarter lot considering how much you have to know to even buy them.

[toknormal]

No, the average stock trader is as ignorant as the average altcoin trader. Bell curve distribution... and sadly I would have to bet the altcoin traders are actually a much smarter lot considering how much you have to know to even buy them.

That probably explains the current mad level of the stockmarket then    (Notwithstanding current correction in progress).

Your formula looks interesting. Will have to digest that.

[jballs]

No, the average stock trader is as ignorant as the average altcoin trader. Bell curve distribution... and sadly I would have to bet the altcoin traders are actually a much smarter lot considering how much you have to know to even buy them.

That probably explains the current mad level of the stockmarket then    (Notwithstanding current correction in progress).

Your formula looks interesting. Will have to digest that.

I wish... Stock market currently is perfect correlation with Quantitative Easing, rigged game. I rather prefer dumb money rallies over galactic scale theft by the oligarchy. But that is off topic.

My calculation above was on the fly and missing a few things but to simplify, say i take

$1,000

And today i want me some coinye.




Really only practical way of buying it is swap for


0.8 btc

And .8 btc will buy me like what, 12 billion coinye? Doesn't matter really.

First rake is exchange $/btc

X number of btc will be bought and then sold for altcoins

So X/ 1 million altcoins bought vs

 X/ 1 billion altcoins bought vs

X/ 1 trillion altcoins bought.

Assuming all altcoins have the same intrinsic value then btc value of all coins approaches zero as altcoin production reaches infinity.

Pretty simple really.

Edit- if you wanted to actually ballpark this you could just take 100% of-daily bitcoin trading volume and use that for x. Would not be literally accurate but you could watch the devaluation of clone coins accordingly. Its kind of self predictive though so im not sure it is worth the effort. 

[anderl]

[illpoet]

i think even if doge goes totally mainstream and fourteen year old girls use it to buy their clothing with at major department stores it will still push btc/ltc prices higher and higher since they are essentially backed by those two coins at the moment.

[stompix]

An interesting question for all coins is -

How much does it cost to maintain the coin at its current price level?

It gives you an idea of how much money is currently flowing into the coin, and resources being used to secure a coin's network. It's easy to work out - you take the current price and multiply it by the number of new coins created each day. I've compiled a list and it currently has some interesting coins at the top, and some interesting coins at the bottom - here it is

Top Coins
Bitcoin -     800x25x6x24 =           2.880M
DogeCoin -    0.0018x500000x60x24 =   1.296M
Litecoin -    20.57x50x24x24 =        0.592M
Mooncoin -    0.00019x1000000x40x24 = 182,400
Peercoin -    4.53x114.44x6x24 =       74,651
ProtoShares - 10.20x16.177x12x24 =     47,521
WorldCoin -   0.29x53x120x24 =        45,792
Primecoin -   2.65x10x60x24 =          38,160
Namecoin -    4.88x50x6x24 =           35,136
Feathercoin - 0.27x200x24x24 =         31,104
Novacoin -    12.72x9.3x6x24 =         17,034
MemoryCoin -  0.20x216x10x24 =         10,368
Megacoin - 0.57 - 25x24x24 =              8,200
DigitalCoin - 0.2510x15x90x24 =         8,100
Devcoin  - 0.00059 - 50000x6x24 =   4240

Bottom 3 'Big' Coins
IFC      - 8.3e-05 - 4096x120x24 = 979
Quark    - 0.074 - 4x120x24 =      852
Zetacoin - 0.02 = 4x120x24 =       230

*Let me know if I've missed any - just looked at the top20 and the ones i'm interested in.

How about you start computing the resources spent on securing the network. ))
For scrypt coins , the cost with hardware electricity might be easier to figure but in btc case... is one of the 12 labors.

It would be nice to see the daily cost of miners who support these coins and with this we'll have an idea how much they might need to dump to cover bills.

[TheCloser]

This metric is plain bonkers.

The amount of money required to "maintain" the price of anything is a function of the amount of goods supplied **to that market**. Not the amount of goods in existence.

If coins are not reaching the market then their value does not need to be supported by demand, so they can be discounted. You can't just take the number of coins "created" each day and multiply it by the price.

That would be like saying that the "market cap" of Salmon is the price of salmon at my local fish market times the entire amount of salmon on boats, in deepfreezes, etc etc - i.e. "not for sale". If all that extra salmon suddenly arrived at the market and was made available for sale, the price would go down. As far as value is concerned, if it's not for sale it doesn't exist.

Thats why these market cap figures are a bit ridiculous (even the ones on coinmarketcap.com etc). Because the market cap measured in this way goes up even if 1 person buys 1 coin. It suggests that that is the amount of money that's been spent on that coin when that's obviously baloney. Look at Bitcoin - it's got a market cap of 12 billion at the moment which I'm sure suggests to a lot of people that 12 Billion dollars had "gone into" bitcoin.

Whereas in fact, if 2 people bought 2 bitcoins for $1600 each and that was the last traded price, the market cap would suddenly jump to $24 billion ! That's how stupid all these statistics are that are calculated in this way. They are totally misleading toytown doodles that don't tell anyone anything and I really wish folks would take less notice of them.

And this is why that article that determines coin investment strategies based on daily "maintenance" was garbage. You can't buy what's not for sale

[MakeBelieve]

Dogecoin will never be as successful as litcoin is litecoin is valued a lot higher than doge.

[anderl]

This metric is plain bonkers.

The amount of money required to "maintain" the price of anything is a function of the amount of goods supplied **to that market**. Not the amount of goods in existence.

If coins are not reaching the market then their value does not need to be supported by demand, so they can be discounted. You can't just take the number of coins "created" each day and multiply it by the price.

That would be like saying that the "market cap" of Salmon is the price of salmon at my local fish market times the entire amount of salmon on boats, in deepfreezes, etc etc - i.e. "not for sale". If all that extra salmon suddenly arrived at the market and was made available for sale, the price would go down. As far as value is concerned, if it's not for sale it doesn't exist.

Thats why these market cap figures are a bit ridiculous (even the ones on coinmarketcap.com etc). Because the market cap measured in this way goes up even if 1 person buys 1 coin. It suggests that that is the amount of money that's been spent on that coin when that's obviously baloney. Look at Bitcoin - it's got a market cap of 12 billion at the moment which I'm sure suggests to a lot of people that 12 Billion dollars had "gone into" bitcoin.

Whereas in fact, if 2 people bought 2 bitcoins for $1600 each and that was the last traded price, the market cap would suddenly jump to $24 billion ! That's how stupid all these statistics are that are calculated in this way. They are totally misleading toytown doodles that don't tell anyone anything and I really wish folks would take less notice of them.

And this is why that article that determines coin investment strategies based on daily "maintenance" was garbage. You can't buy what's not for sale

Right its all about the total liquidity of the currency.  The easier the currency is able to transact the more accurate the value.  If only cryptsy support DOGE then it is harder to trade which makes price appreciate.  Hence why coins tend to be sold at higher prices on google spreadsheets in forums before they get to an exchange.

[BrewCrewFan]

LOL @ people claiming doge is God when its only a few months old.

They said the same thing about feathercoin.

[anderl]

LOL @ people claiming doge is God when its only a few months old.

They said the same thing about feathercoin.

I remember feathercoin I got rich off that and chinacoin when they were first released and put on btc-e.com.  I dumped every last dime of it and they never reached the price they started at.  I think at the open 1 FTC = 1 BTC.  LOL!!!

[bitwho]

LOL @ people claiming doge is God when its only a few months old.

They said the same thing about feathercoin.

I remember feathercoin I got rich off that and chinacoin when they were first released and put on btc-e.com.  I dumped every last dime of it and they never reached the price they started at.  I think at the open 1 FTC = 1 BTC.  LOL!!!

genuine question:

Was any of the these coin you mention, or any of previous coins as popular as dogecoin?

Meaning in volume? Seems like doge has some huge numbers in individual buys/sell, and a lot more people are holding. There seem to be a lot of doge wallets have gotten downloaded. Scary numbers.

Have there been an equal in popular awareness?

[jballs]

LOL @ people claiming doge is God when its only a few months old.

They said the same thing about feathercoin.

I remember feathercoin I got rich off that and chinacoin when they were first released and put on btc-e.com.  I dumped every last dime of it and they never reached the price they started at.  I think at the open 1 FTC = 1 BTC.  LOL!!!

genuine question:

Was any of the these coin you mention, or any of previous coins as popular as dogecoin?

Meaning in volume? Seems like doge has some huge numbers in individual buys/sell, and a lot more people are holding. There seem to be a lot of doge wallets have gotten downloaded. Scary numbers.

Have there been an equal in popular awareness?

If by popular awareness you mean /b/ probably not.  But i spent ten minutes this week trying to explain doge memes to 67 year old, wow. Much not getting it.

And for the record it took me an hour to understand what the hell it was when i first heard about it.

You buy doge coin because you are too young to remember all the stupid shit people lost money buying in the dotcom bubble.

I bought no doge for the record.

Good luck though.

[anderl]

LOL @ people claiming doge is God when its only a few months old.

They said the same thing about feathercoin.

I remember feathercoin I got rich off that and chinacoin when they were first released and put on btc-e.com.  I dumped every last dime of it and they never reached the price they started at.  I think at the open 1 FTC = 1 BTC.  LOL!!!

genuine question:

Was any of the these coin you mention, or any of previous coins as popular as dogecoin?

Meaning in volume? Seems like doge has some huge numbers in individual buys/sell, and a lot more people are holding. There seem to be a lot of doge wallets have gotten downloaded. Scary numbers.

Have there been an equal in popular awareness?

Yes much more so.  Feathercoin was huge at the time and Chinacoin was just as big.  So big that btc-e.com added them to their exchange in a matter of a few weeks (this was before cryptsy existed and everyone trade on google spreadsheets).

btc-e.com has bid/asks in BTc of up to 100 BTC in FTC on bid and ask.  DOGE is nowheres near this.  FTC network grew as big as LTC at the time.  Again you really had to be there.  All you know is what happened in the last few months.  There is a lot of history in cryptos in the last 3 years.

[usahero]

LoL comparing FTC with Doge and actually thinking FTC was bigger than DOGE.


Well maybe I think so because I got lucky with Doge and not lucky with FTC