AVALON (Canaan) $1 Billion IPO to manufacture ASIC's - NOT ICO... It's "IPO"

[dmwardjr]

Canaan (Avalon) appears to be making a move to gain more market share and Bitcoin network hash rate.

"Bitcoin Mining Equipment Maker Canaan [Also known as AVALON] Files for $1 Billion IPO" - https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/bitcoin-mining-equipment-maker-canaan-files-for-241-billion-ipo/ar-AAxkVDW

"Keiser Report: Hidden Commands (E1231)" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKsPhtSjcuU

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[madmartyk]

Where does it say they are going to be making SHA-256 miners?  Maybe they are going to start making miners for ASIC resistant algos.

[dmwardjr]

Where does it say they are going to be making SHA-256 miners?  Maybe they are going to start making miners for ASIC resistant algos.

I'm sure you would love that.  Time will tell.

[dmwardjr]

Where does it say they are going to be making SHA-256 miners?  Maybe they are going to start making miners for ASIC resistant algos.

In the meantime, those who just bought S9's should feel threatened. 

Bottom line:  One or a couple of manufacturers in control of all money printing machines is not good for any blockchain.

[madmartyk]

Where does it say they are going to be making SHA-256 miners?  Maybe they are going to start making miners for ASIC resistant algos.

In the meantime, those who just bought S9's should feel threatened. 

Bottom line:  One or a couple of manufacturers in control of all money printing machines is not good for any blockchain.

I agree, it's the same in the GPU world, 2 manufactures control the supply of all GPUs.  There have been posts of warehouses of GPU farms in China, as well as warehouses of ASIC farms.  First it was the S1, then S3 and so on.  All the old miners either get scrapped or end up on Ali-baba.

The time for hobby miners (like me) is almost over.  It's not as much as 1 or 2 manufactures control the hardware.  It's that a handful of farms control the hashrate.  If there was no demand for faster machines, BM and others wouldn't be rushing to fill a need that isn't there.  But it is.

[dmwardjr]

Where does it say they are going to be making SHA-256 miners?  Maybe they are going to start making miners for ASIC resistant algos.

In the meantime, those who just bought S9's should feel threatened. 

Bottom line:  One or a couple of manufacturers in control of all money printing machines is not good for any blockchain.

I agree, it's the same in the GPU world, 2 manufactures control the supply of all GPUs.  There have been posts of warehouses of GPU farms in China, as well as warehouses of ASIC farms.  First it was the S1, then S3 and so on.  All the old miners either get scrapped or end up on Ali-baba.

The time for hobby miners (like me) is almost over.  It's not as much as 1 or 2 manufactures control the hardware.  It's that a handful of farms control the hashrate.  If there was no demand for faster machines, BM and others wouldn't be rushing to fill a need that isn't there.  But it is.

One BIG difference:  AMD and NVIDIA are not mining for themselves.  Their hardware has multiple uses other than mining.

Also, it appears INTEL "might" come into the GPU manufacturing game.

By the way, as for a "need" for faster machines, that comes with innovation.  I personally believe those coins that have re-inforced their commitment to ASIC resistance; such as ZEN, Bitcoin Gold, EXPANSE, MONERO, etc... see a "need" to do so in order to maintain decentralized mining for a number of reasons that we've discussed in other threads.  GPU manufacturers will continue to increase the performance of their graphics cards.  Mainly for all the many other uses for those graphics cards.  Not necessarily for the purpose of mining. 

Privacy coins devoted to ASIC resistance will have a secure network once again when they find and/or construct an algorithm that proves to actually be ASIC resistant; or at least puts ASIC's on the same playing field as GPU's and FPGA's.  Issues like scaleability will be solved soon enough and will be solved without the need of an ASIC.  That's my opinion of course. 

By the way, a video by Andreas Antonopoulos you might like that came out May 26, 2018:  "Keeping Digital Communities Weird" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MG1aR71uFg

[dmwardjr]

I have a couple of buddies in Tennessee who purchased S9's and L3's in December and January [Right near the peak of high prices of crypto at the time].  They are beginning to feel the pain of the increased network hash rate along with the price of crypto's going down.  I tried talking them out of buying any mining hardware and simply trade for now but it didn't work.  I tried talking them into a GPU mining investment instead of Bitmain's ASIC's.  They didn't listen and bought ASIC's.

At current price and difficulty of LTC, they don't see ROI for their L3's for another 3 years.  They messed up big time buying at or near the peak.  I'm sure many who are new to mining have done the same.

This news of another ASIC manufacturer potentially coming on the scene is not good for S9 owners.  AVALON may not even sell the hardware they manufacture and simply mine with the hardware themselves.  Either way, the network hash stands to increase substantially if AVALON begins manufacturing new ASIC's for SHA-256 soon.

[madmartyk]

I think Baikal has the right idea, manufacture a machine that can do many algos.  Also the FPGAs are just starting to come out.  Right now they can so the same algos ASIC resistant GPUs.  Once the prices start coming down they will pose a serious threat to GPUs and ASICs.

I have a X11 X3 that is making more per day then a L3+ right now, and people called the X3 a doorstop.

If you look back, every year someone comes out with a faster miner.  I have had Bitmain, Avalon, and a host of others, I mine for a while then sell them off.  I'm a hobby miner, I'm not in it for the big bucks.  As long as I'm making something to cover the electric (yes ComEd loves me) I'm happy.  When BTC and the ALTs were at their high, there is no way I would even think of buying a miner.

I did buy 3 of the Z9 minis and a couple E3s at the cheap price.  I will fire up the Z9 and see what they will produce, the E3s will be flipped.

There is so much wrong with crypto today, the biggest problem is scammers, DEVs who create coins to rip off people.  Scams for miners that will never happen, Masternode scams and scam exchanges.  These problems are hurting crypto way more then real manufactures coming out with new miners for ASIC resistant algos.  They are making them because people will buy them.  They are in the business to make money.  Scammers are in the business of ripping people off.

What is going to happen is going to happen, you or me are not going to change it.  If some farm in China calls BM and says I want 10,000 machines for XYZ algo you think BM is going to tell them NO, THAT'S A GPU ONLY ALGO?  Hell no!!

[badfad]

I think Baikal has the right idea, manufacture a machine that can do many algos.  Also the FPGAs are just starting to come out.  Right now they can so the same algos ASIC resistant GPUs.  Once the prices start coming down they will pose a serious threat to GPUs and ASICs.

I have a X11 X3 that is making more per day then a L3+ right now, and people called the X3 a doorstop.

If you look back, every year someone comes out with a faster miner.  I have had Bitmain, Avalon, and a host of others, I mine for a while then sell them off.  I'm a hobby miner, I'm not in it for the big bucks.  As long as I'm making something to cover the electric (yes ComEd loves me) I'm happy.  When BTC and the ALTs were at their high, there is no way I would even think of buying a miner.

I did buy 3 of the Z9 minis and a couple E3s at the cheap price.  I will fire up the Z9 and see what they will produce, the E3s will be flipped.

There is so much wrong with crypto today, the biggest problem is scammers, DEVs who create coins to rip off people.  Scams for miners that will never happen, Masternode scams and scam exchanges.  These problems are hurting crypto way more then real manufactures coming out with new miners for ASIC resistant algos.  They are making them because people will buy them.  They are in the business to make money.  Scammers are in the business of ripping people off.

What is going to happen is going to happen, you or me are not going to change it.  If some farm in China calls BM and says I want 10,000 machines for XYZ algo you think BM is going to tell them NO, THAT'S A GPU ONLY ALGO?  Hell no!!

I agree with most of what you said, only one part, do you think a coin can have value if it's mined by 2-3 megafarms?

[madmartyk]

I think Baikal has the right idea, manufacture a machine that can do many algos.  Also the FPGAs are just starting to come out.  Right now they can so the same algos ASIC resistant GPUs.  Once the prices start coming down they will pose a serious threat to GPUs and ASICs.

I have a X11 X3 that is making more per day then a L3+ right now, and people called the X3 a doorstop.

If you look back, every year someone comes out with a faster miner.  I have had Bitmain, Avalon, and a host of others, I mine for a while then sell them off.  I'm a hobby miner, I'm not in it for the big bucks.  As long as I'm making something to cover the electric (yes ComEd loves me) I'm happy.  When BTC and the ALTs were at their high, there is no way I would even think of buying a miner.

I did buy 3 of the Z9 minis and a couple E3s at the cheap price.  I will fire up the Z9 and see what they will produce, the E3s will be flipped.

There is so much wrong with crypto today, the biggest problem is scammers, DEVs who create coins to rip off people.  Scams for miners that will never happen, Masternode scams and scam exchanges.  These problems are hurting crypto way more then real manufactures coming out with new miners for ASIC resistant algos.  They are making them because people will buy them.  They are in the business to make money.  Scammers are in the business of ripping people off.

What is going to happen is going to happen, you or me are not going to change it.  If some farm in China calls BM and says I want 10,000 machines for XYZ algo you think BM is going to tell them NO, THAT'S A GPU ONLY ALGO?  Hell no!!

I agree with most of what you said, only one part, do you think a coin can have value if it's mined by 2-3 megafarms?

If it didn't they wouldn't be mining it.  It's all about the profit you know.  Do you think if BTC dumped back to $500 these farms would still be running?

[dmwardjr]

I think Baikal has the right idea, manufacture a machine that can do many algos.  Also the FPGAs are just starting to come out.  Right now they can so the same algos ASIC resistant GPUs.  Once the prices start coming down they will pose a serious threat to GPUs and ASICs.

There are already algorithms being developed to stop the threat of FPGA's.  One in particular I'll share later after I learn more about it.  I personally feel Hardware R&D does not give Software R&D enough respect.  You'll be surprised what has already been developed and what's coming down the pipe.

I have a X11 X3 that is making more per day then a L3+ right now, and people called the X3 a doorstop.

There were too many other coins using the crypto night algorithm to make it a doorstop.  I've heard others say the same.  I knew better than to say such.  However, the Z9 might become a doorstop "IF" Zcash forks along with BTG, ZEN, Bitcoin Private and EXPANSE.  I hear EXPANSE is going to PROG PoW.  There's a possibility the Z9 Batch 1 and Batch 2 owners might be alright.  Those who purchase Batch 3 and later are doing so at great risk in my opinion.  Not just from the threat of increase hash rate but from the threat of a fork to a new algorithm.

If you look back, every year someone comes out with a faster miner.  I have had Bitmain, Avalon, and a host of others, I mine for a while then sell them off.  I'm a hobby miner, I'm not in it for the big bucks.  As long as I'm making something to cover the electric (yes ComEd loves me) I'm happy.  When BTC and the ALTs were at their high, there is no way I would even think of buying a miner.

You made a wise decision in regards to not getting more rigs.  Especially, when the price was at or near all time high; like my buddies did in Tennessee.  They asked my opinion but ultimately made their own decision.  They now wish they had simply used their funds to trade crypto.  One invested $22k into S9's and L3+'s.  The other one invested approximately $40k.  I wish others who are new to the community would listen to those of us who have been in the game longer about when to get in and/or out of the mining game, upgrade hardware, etc...

I did buy 3 of the Z9 minis and a couple E3s at the cheap price.  I will fire up the Z9 and see what they will produce, the E3s will be flipped.

I don't think you'll have a problem whatsoever with ROI.  As for being able to mine with them several years later like I still do with some of my GPU's; well, you and I both know the answer to that.

There is so much wrong with crypto today, the biggest problem is scammers, DEVs who create coins to rip off people.  Scams for miners that will never happen, Masternode scams and scam exchanges.  These problems are hurting crypto way more then real manufactures coming out with new miners for ASIC resistant algos.  They are making them because people will buy them.  They are in the business to make money.  Scammers are in the business of ripping people off.

I agree with your comments on corrupt developers creating scam coins, etc...

As for BITMAIN manufacturing ASIC's to make money (profit); that's understandable.  They are taking risk just as those who buy their hardware are also taking risks.  BITMAIN did not make them buy their hardware.  It's not BITMAIN's fault people don't research and educate themselves to make proper decisions regarding their involvement with crypto; whether its's mining, trading or investing; such as ICO's.

You and I both are here educating people in an attempt to help them with the decisions they make in the crypto space.  Yes, we both have different perspectives with you being somewhat pro ASIC and me being pro GPU.  However, I respect your opinion and your freedom to express it.  At least you do so out of respect and not resorting to personal attacks like some in the forums.  Yes, you and I both have made little quips towards the other while showing support for our point of view.  Yet you do so without taking those quips to a personal offensive level.  Thanks for keeping it "real."

What is going to happen is going to happen, you or me are not going to change it.  If some farm in China calls BM and says I want 10,000 machines for XYZ algo you think BM is going to tell them NO, THAT'S A GPU ONLY ALGO?  Hell no!!

My only comeback would be; "There's nothing BM can do to fulfill that potential client's order if software developers have rendered an algo virtually ASIC resistant or at least made ASIC's pretty much on an even keel with GPU's.

[madmartyk]

and see, people with different opinions can discuss a topic without resorting to name calling.  Have a great day!!

[dmwardjr]

and see, people with different opinions can discuss a topic without resorting to name calling.  Have a great day!!

Happy Mining and Have a great day as well.  I need to get some shut eye.  I've been up all night again.

Cheers

[gameboy366]

NEVER EVER invest in anything crypto related that comes out of People's Republic of China. A whole article needs to be written on this topic.

For a private company in PRC it is compulsory to have party members in it. Every big company in China weather foreign or china based have to have party members on executive position. The corporate law stipulates that companies, villages and schools with three or more members should set up party organizations. Time and time again CCP (Chinese Communist Party) has showed us they will take over any company no matter how big or small if it doesn't play by their rules. Any ICO or crypto related project that comes put of PRC is directly under guidance from CCP- world's most powerful totalitarian regime. CCP has already done their maths, this is all in their plan to control west and the world, centralise and control the democratically desentralised systems.

Technologies like TOR, Cryptocurrencies, VPN are most useful and used by people living in these totalitarian regimes. If you support these projects and companies you are only making CCP more powerful which will inturn hurt the people of China. CCP won't be able stop the next revolution. Just look at Tiananmen Square massacre, this is what these crony capitalist companies support.

[thiec]

What is going to happen is going to happen, you or me are not going to change it.  If some farm in China calls BM and says I want 10,000 machines for XYZ algo you think BM is going to tell them NO, THAT'S A GPU ONLY ALGO?  Hell no!!

My only comeback would be; "There's nothing BM can do to fulfill that potential client's order if software developers have rendered an algo virtually ASIC resistant or at least made ASIC's pretty much on an even keel with GPU's.

I like @madmartyk comment
I dont think "ASIC Resistant" is a value selling for those GPU mining coin, all have have two sides, which should be consider carefully

A big word IF that not us to be decided.