KYC is bullshit

[GolixDotCom]

True KYC is important

[maarx]

It depends on where and why KYC is needed. KYC is requested to know if the coins are purchased by the people those who are denyed to buy the coins. Few countries do not accept bitcoin and other crypto curenceis as they might have been cheated or annoyed by people who might have sold coins. The governments in order to take action, they deny in accepting the new coins into the resepctive countries.

[makolz26]

It depends on where and why KYC is needed. KYC is requested to know if the coins are purchased by the people those who are denyed to buy the coins. Few countries do not accept bitcoin and other crypto curenceis as they might have been cheated or annoyed by people who might have sold coins. The governments in order to take action, they deny in accepting the new coins into the resepctive countries.

I don't agree with KYC too especially if you are a bounty hunter but in exchange if it is required then it is fine for as long as they would protect our funds too, and that they are liable if something happened to my fund, KYC is good at some point but not so good in other things.

[squatter]

Since when are bitcoin gambling sites considered money transmitters for the purposes of AML/KYC? I'm not aware of any new enforcement actions or precedents that specify that.

I have noticed over the past 9-12 months that some casinos and sportsbooks have reportedly begun enforcing KYC, and in some cases the changes have coincided with allegations of insolvency or scamming.

I'm not saying it's not the law -- but I'm not sure that it is. And it's quite convenient that these sites can lock up people's funds over it.

But aren't they?
They take one form of payment/money and send back (if  ) another form of money.

What I'm talking about specifically is businesses who take deposits and payout withdraws in BTC, for the purposes of gambling. I'm not convinced that these businesses are money transmitters, so I'm unsure where the KYC requirements emerge from.

It's all about what law they want to follow and if they want to follow it.

If those websites want to be legal all over the globe, then they will have to follow them, nobody is forcing them to do so. They could start and block all customers from certain countries and be done with that.

Sure, I can understand if a site wants to go "fully legit" in an attempt to appease regulators. This is the approach of Coinbase and Gemini. But as you point out, I also suspect that some casinos, ICOs, etc. are using this trend as a way to withhold rightful payments.

[Thian778]

KYC is important for all account user under an specific project, like when you loss your password then you can retrieve it using your information and give only the exact info you provided during the application of your KYC specially if this account involve keep safteying your money, but on bounty or airdrop? I don't think so.

[Hueristic]

Why the fuck is everything requiring a fucking KYC now, Gambling sites don't even let you fucking withdraw without a fucking CIA style background check but they obviously let you deposit with nothing.

Bpunties used to be fun but now everything requires a fucking KYC.  NO I'M NOT GIVING MY PERSONAL INFORMATION OUT TO SOME FUCKING STRANGER OVER THE INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!

THE WHOLE POINT OF CRYPTO IS TO STAY ANONYMOUS

Because like it or not the bankers rule the world, no matter where you live that invisible hand is at work to control you and that control is exercised through your dependence to purchase necessities of life. It is an insidious plan that has been ongoing for over a century and is only now showing it's full power world wide. Only by standing together will the world's populous be able to not become faceless numbers on a governmental ledger (whether blockchain or not).

They want to do this to you.



A BTC address will work just fine for them.

[Mukarram Tariq]

KYC full form is "Know Your Customer"
 
It is a legal process in which background team or any company identify the person who behind the bitcoin.

I don't have any problem with KYC infect I'm happy with this process.

[richardsNY]

Only by standing together will the world's populous be able to not become faceless numbers on a governmental ledger (whether blockchain or not).

This reminds me of people thinking that because they use exchanges and online wallets instead of banks, they can escape from all this controlling and marking. They don't realize that centralized exchanges and online wallets are not much different from banks controlling their wealth. It's mind boggling how people here aren't able to figure it out themselves. The only way to deal with everything that's centralized is that we need to stop using exchanges and everything else, even if we have to sacrifice all the convenience centralized services might offer. I am however glad that there are some pretty decent movements happening when it comes to building a decentralized economy. The more governments keep pushing, the more developments the decentralized economy will go through.

[Hueristic]

Only by standing together will the world's populous be able to not become faceless numbers on a governmental ledger (whether blockchain or not).

This reminds me of people thinking that because they use exchanges and online wallets instead of banks, they can escape from all this controlling and marking. They don't realize that centralized exchanges and online wallets are not much different from banks controlling their wealth. It's mind boggling how people here aren't able to figure it out themselves. The only way to deal with everything that's centralized is that we need to stop using exchanges and everything else, even if we have to sacrifice all the convenience centralized services might offer. I am however glad that there are some pretty decent movements happening when it comes to building a decentralized economy. The more governments keep pushing, the more developments the decentralized economy will go through.

I've been waiting for it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2659247.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4400856.0

edited: I read that wrong...Doh.

[coincruncher1982]

I absolutely hate KYC. It's dumb security theater. It goes against everything crypto stands for and gives identity thieves opportunities to steal your data.

[1Referee]

It goes against everything crypto stands for and gives identity thieves opportunities to steal your data.

It doesn't.

You have to understand that there is a major difference between the centralized and decentralized aspect of this market. The decentralized part will always remain unaffected and will always allow you to bypass these measures. The centralized part of this market is where everything starts to become very interesting, because this part is the only thing authorities can control, and for that reason they will choke it with regulations in every possible way till they feel somewhat comfortable.

The choice is and will always be open for you to be made. No one can force you to do anything you don't want. People just need to remain realistic and accept that the centralized market comes with drastic measures, and that they aren't against crypto at all. Regulations are there because this market has been maturing rapidly. People want massive growth and mainstream reach, well, this is what's needed. Crypto is no longer mainly a niche thingy.

[coincruncher1982]

It goes against everything crypto stands for and gives identity thieves opportunities to steal your data.

It doesn't.

You have to understand that there is a major difference between the centralized and decentralized aspect of this market. The decentralized part will always remain unaffected and will always allow you to bypass these measures. The centralized part of this market is where everything starts to become very interesting, because this part is the only thing authorities can control, and for that reason they will choke it with regulations in every possible way till they feel somewhat comfortable.

The choice is and will always be open for you to be made. No one can force you to do anything you don't want. People just need to remain realistic and accept that the centralized market comes with drastic measures, and that they aren't against crypto at all. Regulations are there because this market has been maturing rapidly. People want massive growth and mainstream reach, well, this is what's needed. Crypto is no longer mainly a niche thingy.

It certainly does give identity thieves opportunities to steal your data. And these days even if you don't want to touch fiat you may still have to do KYC if you want to use a casino or buy an ICO. None of these activities involve fiat yet KYC is still being done.

There's way too many people that have a slave mentality and think it's ok to give up your right to privacy despite the ICCPR stating that a right to privacy is a basic human right.

[guybrushthreepwood]

I absolutely hate KYC. It's dumb security theater. It goes against everything crypto stands for and gives identity thieves opportunities to steal your data.

Not using KYC also gives thieves an opportunity to use your stolen data. Anyone could use your name and address otherwise. Do you think we should get rid of such things as KYC laws and just let criminals evade taxes and launder their money freely by creating bank and exchange accounts under fake names and addresses? If people are so paranoid or against institutions who implement KYC then just don't use them and sell your coins for cash on the street to some random guy you found online (what are the chances you'll just get robbed?). If you're such an anarchist that you don't even believe in cash then swap your coins for other goods and services directly instead. I get the feeling most people here aren't really anarchists but are just lazy or want to get away with not paying taxes etc. If that is the case then just don't use exchanges. Their fees are a rip off any way.

[coincruncher1982]

Not using KYC also gives thieves an opportunity to use your stolen data. Anyone could use your name and address otherwise. Do you think we should get rid of such things as KYC laws and just let criminals evade taxes and launder their money freely by creating bank and exchange accounts under fake names and addresses?

Wow this is such a nonsense comment. Another person with a slave mentality. How is "not using KYC" giving the thieves an opportunity to using "my" stolen data? If I don't submit KYC documentation (passport, utility bill, etc) then THERE'S NO DATA TO STEAL. Use your head before you post.
 
Also I don't care about tax evasion. It's a total manufactured crime where the "victim" is the government that is shaking people down for their hard earned money. It's not comparable to real crimes like murder, kidnapping, or rape yet the penalties can be just as heavy! This is such a non libertarian worldview that it honestly surprised me a guy with a legendary posting history would see things that way. Stop being a sheep man! Wake the fuck up and stop giving government thugs the benefit of the doubt.

Also money laundering laws are incredibly vague and ill defined and can be used alongside a tax evasion charge to nail you twice for the same non violent "crime" of not paying your taxes. Money laundering laws are also often used as a catch all "guilty until proven innocent" law (After all without proper paperwork you are presumed guilty) when the government is unable to pin the actual crime on somebody in order to coerce a guilty plea. Rarely are money laundering laws used how they were originally intended to be used: To stop terrorism and other crimes that harm real people rather than faceless governments who just thirst for more power.

[guybrushthreepwood]

Not using KYC also gives thieves an opportunity to use your stolen data. Anyone could use your name and address otherwise. Do you think we should get rid of such things as KYC laws and just let criminals evade taxes and launder their money freely by creating bank and exchange accounts under fake names and addresses?

Wow this is such a nonsense comment. Another person with a slave mentality. How is "not using KYC" giving the thieves an opportunity to using "my" stolen data? If I don't submit KYC documentation (passport, utility bill, etc) then THERE'S NO DATA TO STEAL. Use your head before you post.

Nobody knows your details if you don't use KYC? What about everywhere else that has your data? Your mobile phone. Your internet. Your banking. Your Subway loyalty card. Are you a ghost? Data gets stolen (often without you knowing it) from everywhere and then anyone can use it. Have you ever had mail sent to your house? Then the postman knows your name and address. Ever used a debit card? Then anyone who works for visa knows your details and anyone you hand your card over to can copy it. If there's no checks and all it takes is a name and address it becomes much easier for anyone to use these details. Anyone who sends you something you bought off ebay could just use your name and address to sign up with an exchange account. You think this should be ok? I really doubt you're so off the grid even satoshi would be impressed.
 

Also I don't care about tax evasion. It's a total manufactured crime where the "victim" is the government that is shaking people down for their hard earned money. It's not comparable to real crimes like murder, kidnapping, or rape yet the penalties can be just as heavy! This is such a non libertarian worldview that it honestly surprised me a guy with a legendary posting history would see things that way. Stop being a sheep man! Wake the fuck up and stop giving government thugs the benefit of the doubt.

The crime is against society. If you don't like the laws of that country then you are free to leave. Tax evasion might not be comparable to rape and murder but that's irrelevant. We live in a society where everyone is meant to chip in what they can afford so that everyone benefits. Do I think taxes should be spent on wars and furnishing politicians homes? No. But I believe in roads and hospitals and emergency services. I would have respect for you if you're a true anarchist but you're probably not. What I don't have respect for is people who use all the services that their country provides but don't want to contribute to paying that under the guise of the government is criminal. You probably also do the same thing as all these "sheep" and "slaves" you condemn do: go to work, pay taxes, use government services by day, but by night you're sticking it to the man in any little way you can on a bitcoin forum. If you feel like that move to a tax heaven and pay nothing legally and then you can be a real anarchist.

The last box is usually your average anarchist these days:

Also money laundering laws are incredibly vague and ill defined and can be used alongside a tax evasion charge to nail you twice for the same non violent "crime" of not paying your taxes. Money laundering laws are also often used as a catch all "guilty until proven innocent" law (After all without proper paperwork you are presumed guilty) when the government is unable to pin the actual crime on somebody in order to coerce a guilty plea. Rarely are money laundering laws used how they were originally intended to be used: To stop terrorism and other crimes that harm real people rather than faceless governments who just thirst for more power.

Then move to a country that doesn't have them. I really doubt you would live in a country that has no sorts of laws and regulations and everyone just fended for themselves. People are quick to complain about this stuff from their iPads and the comfort of their own home in the West but aren't really willing to do anything about it other than complain about taxes on the internet. These laws are meant to protect people and curb organized crime, but I agree they shouldn't be abused in the ways you describe, but should we do away with all government laws, regulations and taxes? Lets get rid of building regulations and the police. When a building falls down due to shoddy work and there's no law or police to enforce it who is going to be held accountable? That's the sort of country you would live in where infrastructure collapses and lawlessness exists and crimes go unpunished, and there are plenty of countries like this, but I can assure you they're not very nice places to live in.

Just because I think certain regulations are helpful to a safe society doesn't make me a sheep. I could just as easily argue the real sheep are the people who just parrot that government and taxes are bad without actually offering any viable alternatives whilst simultaneously benefiting from the society and government they condemn.  

[Hueristic]

It goes against everything crypto stands for and gives identity thieves opportunities to steal your data.

It doesn't.

You have to understand that there is a major difference between the centralized and decentralized aspect of this market. The decentralized part will always remain unaffected and will always allow you to bypass these measures. The centralized part of this market is where everything starts to become very interesting, because this part is the only thing authorities can control, and for that reason they will choke it with regulations in every possible way till they feel somewhat comfortable.

The choice is and will always be open for you to be made. No one can force you to do anything you don't want. People just need to remain realistic and accept that the centralized market comes with drastic measures, and that they aren't against crypto at all. Regulations are there because this market has been maturing rapidly. People want massive growth and mainstream reach, well, this is what's needed. Crypto is no longer mainly a niche thingy.

I could tell you post was bullshit by the second "always" here's a hint, there are no absolutes in this world.

I hope you really don't believe that bolded part, because if you do your either living in a bubble or a fantasy world.

It goes against everything crypto stands for and gives identity thieves opportunities to steal your data.

It doesn't.

You have to understand that there is a major difference between the centralized and decentralized aspect of this market. The decentralized part will always remain unaffected and will always allow you to bypass these measures. The centralized part of this market is where everything starts to become very interesting, because this part is the only thing authorities can control, and for that reason they will choke it with regulations in every possible way till they feel somewhat comfortable.

The choice is and will always be open for you to be made. No one can force you to do anything you don't want. People just need to remain realistic and accept that the centralized market comes with drastic measures, and that they aren't against crypto at all. Regulations are there because this market has been maturing rapidly. People want massive growth and mainstream reach, well, this is what's needed. Crypto is no longer mainly a niche thingy.

It certainly does give identity thieves opportunities to steal your data. And these days even if you don't want to touch fiat you may still have to do KYC if you want to use a casino or buy an ICO. None of these activities involve fiat yet KYC is still being done.

There's way too many people that have a slave mentality and think it's ok to give up your right to privacy despite the ICCPR stating that a right to privacy is a basic human right.

+M for u.

...

...

Enjoying your supporting arguments, just thought I'd let you know.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4400856.msg39163811#msg39163811

[btc-facebook]

It's a bit frustation but when they require us to give KYC means that they are need something that act as collateral because they may experience many scam at past so they want to prevent bad things in the future.
Personally, I will give my KYC only if I trust the project 100% !

[coincruncher1982]

Nobody knows your details if you don't use KYC? What about everywhere else that has your data? Your mobile phone. Your internet. Your banking. Your Subway loyalty card. Are you a ghost? Data gets stolen (often without you knowing it) from everywhere and then anyone can use it. Have you ever had mail sent to your house? Then the postman knows your name and address. Ever used a debit card? Then anyone who works for visa knows your details and anyone you hand your card over to can copy it. If there's no checks and all it takes is a name and address it becomes much easier for anyone to use these details. Anyone who sends you something you bought off ebay could just use your name and address to sign up with an exchange account. You think this should be ok? I really doubt you're so off the grid even satoshi would be impressed.

I don't hand over passports and other sensitive info to strangers online because they could be seriously abused and could be used to open things under my name without me realizing it. Yeah I use a debit card. It's a prepaid debit card, therefore no nobody has my real name on it. When I order things off ebay I use an virtual office address and pick up my packages this way.

If there's no checks then people would just make up aliases and pick any address they want if the exchange were to even ask for an address. At that point I doubt an exchange would even bother asking for an address especially if it deals only with crypto and not fiat since there's no way to verify it. That's significantly less bad than having a copy of your passport floating around the Dark Web and we both know it. But you don't want to concede defeat so you're just babbling.
 

Also I don't care about tax evasion. It's a total manufactured crime where the "victim" is the government that is shaking people down for their hard earned money. It's not comparable to real crimes like murder, kidnapping, or rape yet the penalties can be just as heavy! This is such a non libertarian worldview that it honestly surprised me a guy with a legendary posting history would see things that way. Stop being a sheep man! Wake the fuck up and stop giving government thugs the benefit of the doubt.

The crime is against society. If you don't like the laws of that country then you are free to leave. Tax evasion might not be comparable to rape and murder but that's irrelevant. We live in a society where everyone is meant to chip in what they can afford so that everyone benefits. Do I think taxes should be spent on wars and furnishing politicians homes? No. But I believe in roads and hospitals and emergency services. I would have respect for you if you're a true anarchist but you're probably not. What I don't have respect for is people who use all the services that their country provides but don't want to contribute to paying that under the guise of the government is criminal. You probably also do the same thing as all these "sheep" and "slaves" you condemn do: go to work, pay taxes, use government services by day, but by night you're sticking it to the man in any little way you can on a bitcoin forum. If you feel like that move to a tax heaven and pay nothing legally and then you can be a real anarchist.

Then move to a country that doesn't have them. I really doubt you would live in a country that has no sorts of laws and regulations and everyone just fended for themselves. People are quick to complain about this stuff from their iPads and the comfort of their own home in the West but aren't really willing to do anything about it other than complain about taxes on the internet. These laws are meant to protect people and curb organized crime, but I agree they shouldn't be abused in the ways you describe, but should we do away with all government laws, regulations and taxes? Lets get rid of building regulations and the police. When a building falls down due to shoddy work and there's no law or police to enforce it who is going to be held accountable? That's the sort of country you would live in where infrastructure collapses and lawlessness exists and crimes go unpunished, and there are plenty of countries like this, but I can assure you they're not very nice places to live in.

Just because I think certain regulations are helpful to a safe society doesn't make me a sheep. I could just as easily argue the real sheep are the people who just parrot that government and taxes are bad without actually offering any viable alternatives whilst simultaneously benefiting from the society and government they condemn.  

Ahh yes the "if you don't like it, leave" fallacy. And no it's a crime against the State not against society. How does fighting a war in Iraq benefit society? A large amount of US tax dollars go into the military industrial complex for example and it has nothing to do with defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergo_decedo
 
I already did leave though people shouldn't have to be forced to move just because they disagree with how a State functions. I moved from the EU to Asia. The tax system is definitely an improvement. It's not perfect, but I really like it here.

[coincruncher1982]

It certainly does give identity thieves opportunities to steal your data. And these days even if you don't want to touch fiat you may still have to do KYC if you want to use a casino or buy an ICO. None of these activities involve fiat yet KYC is still being done.

+M for u.

Enjoying your supporting arguments, just thought I'd let you know.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4400856.msg39163811#msg39163811

Thanks man! I appreciate it!

[coolcoinz]

It's a bit frustation but when they require us to give KYC means that they are need something that act as collateral because they may experience many scam at past so they want to prevent bad things in the future.
Personally, I will give my KYC only if I trust the project 100% !

If I followed your logic I wouldn't give my information to anyone because I only trust myself 100%, even my wife would get 99%, and an online project launched by someone who I didn't even meet in person would be at 50% tops.

Nobody knows your details if you don't use KYC? What about everywhere else that has your data? Your mobile phone. Your internet. Your banking. Your Subway loyalty card. Are you a ghost? (...)

A bank can't compare to a coin exchange or an ICO. I had to set up a bank account even before I was 18 because this was the only way to get a job or receive scholarship. You have to do it or you won't be getting any money, ever. That's how the modern society is built. So, I didn't want to be a poor hermit all my life gathering berries and begging for money, I went to a bank and gave them my information.
This doesn't mean that I have to share this information with random people in the Internet. You can allow one or two companies to have your data and be completely fine. Start giving it away online and you'll get into trouble sooner or later and when that happens you won't even be able to tell who sold you. I feel rather safe knowing that if someone steals my identity it had to be the bank, or some other government institution, because nobody else has it. How about you?