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Question: Did you read the entire criminal complaint against Charlie Shrem word-for-word before posting about it?
yes, I read the entire thing - 52 (48.6%)
no, I didn't read it - 31 (29%)
I read an article that summarized it - 24 (22.4%)
Total Voters: 107

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Author Topic: Poll: Did you actually read the entire Charlie Shrem Criminal Complaint?  (Read 2520 times)
Bitye West
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January 28, 2014, 07:48:41 AM
 #1

I'm seeing a lot of knee-jerk reactions posted about this news.

How many people actually read the entire criminal complaint word-for-word before they made a related post?

It's pretty interesting and easy to read.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/202555785/United-States-vs-Charles-Shrem-and-Robert-M-Faiella
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BTCisthefuture
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January 28, 2014, 08:09:07 AM
 #2

Nope I didn't. But when I'm bored or have some free time I'll check it out.  I'm not a lawyer or criminal expert so personally I don't really care what it says nor would I pretend to understand all of it.

Also it wouldn't change my opinion on the situation.  Although I think the war on drugs is wrong,  if it's true that someone knowingly selling bitcoins on an illegal black market site to be used for buying/selling drugs/other illegal things then I still think that person should be held accountable in accordance to the law even though I don't agree with current drug laws.  I don't know if he is innocent or guilty and I will leave it up to courts and jury to come to that conclusion after they've seen all the evidence and heard all the arguments from both parties.

Although it's bitcoin related. I don't consider this much of a bitcoin issue... just an issue of someone allegedly breaking the law.  Just like I don't consider other crimes related to us dollars or other currencies, simply people allegedly breaking laws.

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Bitye West
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January 28, 2014, 08:12:31 AM
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"I'm not a lawyer or criminal expert so personally I don't really care what it says nor would I pretend to understand all of it."

People gave this same reason for not reading the whole DPR criminal complaint.

These things are written in an extremely clear manner for everyone to understand.  There's no legal jargon at all.  It clearly tells the government's story of what lead up to the arrest.
Bitye West
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January 28, 2014, 08:17:40 AM
 #4

Here's the part where he really messed up:

a.    On February 22, 2012, after SHREM had resolved a problem with one of "BTCKing's" orders, the following exchange occurred between them:

     i.   SHREM told "BTCKing," "I just want to let you know, I take care of you bro."


BIG MISTAKE.  Don't bro someone you don't know!
greyhawk
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January 28, 2014, 08:19:51 AM
 #5

Nope I didn't. But when I'm bored or have some free time I'll check it out.  I'm not a lawyer or criminal expert so personally I don't really care what it says nor would I pretend to understand all of it.

Also it wouldn't change my opinion on the situation.  Although I think the war on drugs is wrong,  if it's true that someone knowingly selling bitcoins on an illegal black market site to be used for buying/selling drugs/other illegal things then I still think that person should be held accountable in accordance to the law even though I don't agree with current drug laws. 

You should probably read the complaint what with it being about something completely different than you assume it is.
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January 28, 2014, 09:13:31 AM
 #6

I read the whole thing. He deserves it if the complaint is true and complete

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January 28, 2014, 10:07:31 AM
 #7

Read it. My opinion, they were asking for it, acting like guys in a ticket booth in front of a drug warehouse - "Buy drug coupons everybody!" And on top of it all had large income and avoided taxes.

But here comes the crowd shouting "It's an attack on bitcoin! They are comming for us all!"

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January 28, 2014, 10:45:27 AM
 #8

If he really did all those things then he deserves it.

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January 28, 2014, 10:57:33 AM
 #9


Die, scribd, die. I kills you with fire.  Scribd is the bane of the interwebs.

Here, get a real PDF from DOJ's obnoxiously-long link:

  http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/January14/SchremFaiellaChargesPR/Faiella,%20Robert%20M.%20and%20Charlie%20Shrem%20Complaint.pdf

I'm about halfway through it.  Conclusions so far:

a) It is hilarious that the DOJ copied their FAQ which says, literally, "I want to launder a huge pile of funds!".

b) It is weird that they go out of their way to not refer to MtGox by name, instead referring to "a third-party bitcoin exchange in Japan" (c'mon who are you fooling)

c) Charlie has some pretty ass-awful OPSEC.  Damn, dude.

The printing press heralded the end of the Dark Ages and made the Enlightenment possible, but it took another three centuries before any country managed to put freedom of the press beyond the reach of legislators.  So it may take a while before cryptocurrencies are free of the AML-NSA-KYC surveillance plague.
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January 28, 2014, 11:01:33 AM
 #10

I'm seeing a lot of knee-jerk reactions posted about this news.

How many people actually read the entire criminal complaint word-for-word before they made a related post?

It's pretty interesting and easy to read.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/202555785/United-States-vs-Charles-Shrem-and-Robert-M-Faiella

I read it, but what are the knee-jerk reactions?

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January 28, 2014, 11:02:05 AM
 #11

Some random guy getting arrested is irrelevant to me and it should be irrelevant to all crypto users, what I'm worried about is when a country actively tries to do something about Bitcoin like Russia seems to be doing now.
eldentyrell
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January 28, 2014, 11:05:45 AM
 #12

Some random guy getting arrested is irrelevant to me and it should be irrelevant to all crypto users, what I'm worried about is when a country actively tries to do something about Bitcoin like Russia seems to be doing now.

Arresting prominent members of a movement for things that others (HSBC, cough, cough) get away with on a daily basis should worry you.  Indeed, that is the most effective way for them to "do something about Bitcoin".  For every Shrem they jail another hundred are scared out of being publicly involved.

Since you mention Russia, this is exactly how the USSR held the satellite states in orbit (tanks only rolled twice).  Check out the CNN 12-part documentary someday.  "So and so of the [opposition] peasant party" would simply find themselves in jail before they could get elected.  Pretty damn easy to win elections with that trick up your sleeve.

The printing press heralded the end of the Dark Ages and made the Enlightenment possible, but it took another three centuries before any country managed to put freedom of the press beyond the reach of legislators.  So it may take a while before cryptocurrencies are free of the AML-NSA-KYC surveillance plague.
DieJohnny
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January 28, 2014, 11:15:11 AM
 #13

I went ahead and read the whole thing.

1) Shem was clearly doing shady work with a shady duded that sold bitcoin to druggies on silk road
2) Shem was clearly aware that what he was doing was shady
3) The Faiella dude was clearly aware he was being a creep

But lastly I decided that governments suck as they pay people thousands of dollars to spy on you and find reasons to put you in jail, primarily because they want as much of your money as they can get.

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January 28, 2014, 11:35:56 AM
 #14

I read the whole thing, Shrem is an idiot since the emails basically show him knowingly ignoring AML laws for someone he knew was doing $20K a day in exchanges and even advising the guy on how to avoid being flagged by other companies. 

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January 28, 2014, 11:49:52 AM
 #15

I read the whole thing, Shrem is an idiot since the emails basically show him knowingly ignoring AML laws for someone he knew was doing $20K a day in exchanges and even advising the guy on how to avoid being flagged by other companies. 

Yeah this guy doesn't seem too smart, especially seeing some of his other interviews.

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January 28, 2014, 01:25:08 PM
 #16

I read the whole thing. He deserves it if the complaint is true and complete

Exactly!
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January 28, 2014, 01:28:10 PM
 #17

Is nowadays internet in jail?

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January 28, 2014, 01:45:39 PM
 #18

I read the whole thing, Shrem is an idiot since the emails basically show him knowingly ignoring AML laws for someone he knew was doing $20K a day in exchanges and even advising the guy on how to avoid being flagged by other companies.  

Yeah this guy doesn't seem too smart, especially seeing some of his other interviews.

he had millions of USD and did this - so stupid  Roll Eyes . he could lay in the carabian sun for the rest of this life - now the sun will be a fluorescent lamp.

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January 28, 2014, 01:55:12 PM
 #19

I just read it and its still bullshit.

-There are no money transmitting LAWS that apply to bitcoin. For that to be the case, Congress would have had to write bitcoin legislation since its 2009 - it hasn't. Title 31 wasn't about bitcoin when it was written and it still isn't. Trading money for bitcoin is no more illegal than trading money for sandwiches.

-This is all just political theater by the Freemason fag-douchebag troupe. Shrem is actually in on it - I guess to give him "street-cred". They timed it for just before a hearing on virtual currencies. Its not a coincidence. The chorus of agents chiming in on this forum is part of the ruse.

-The Silk Road allegation is ridiculous, as they can't be held responsible for how people spend their bitcoin anymore than a bank teller can be held responsible for how someone spends cash.

This is all meant to SCARE YOU. Is it working?
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January 28, 2014, 02:18:14 PM
 #20

If he really did all those things then he deserves it.

Good, citizen! Follow your orders.
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