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Author Topic: Which bitcoin casino is your favourite and why?  (Read 3285 times)
Casino Nick
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January 29, 2014, 08:02:56 AM
 #21

I will break it down like this - I bet sports (NCAA FB much pretty thats it) and play Blackjack and everyonce in a while Dice (modified Roulette) here.

For Provably Fair BJ

1. Casinobitco.in 2. BitcoinVideoCasino

For NonProvably Fair BJ - Real feel
1.  Bit777 - as they are only ones I trust with an RNG

Dice

1. Just-Dice 2. Coinroll.it

Sportsbooks

1 Casinobitco.in 2. Bitbook 3. Nitrogen - I use the three and honestly all offer great service and an assest to the BTC community, imo

As far as the other stuff out right now I will pass.

Why because I live in a state where Video Poker Parlors are allowed (and are within 500 yards of my house) and the IGT system is used and has state audited payouts.  My wife and I both play, she moreso than me as its a way to decompress, but if/when IGT games are on a Bitcoin site imo its game over.  Because games like Texas Tea, Lion Fish, and such are the standard, and such more fun to play.

Also live within 45 minutes of table games also so if I want to play BJ I can go there, but to sit down on the computer and throw $20 on some BJ on a Friday night without driving 45 minutes is nice, and why I play in BTC




Thanks for breaking it down. I do see your point that as soon as bigger slot providers start to support bitcoins there will be alot more great content available. As it is today there is nobody from the big slot producers allowing you to play directly with Bitcoins as far as I know. I guess its also a question if you provability wins over nice looking content (3d slot) for example?

How much do you spend for gambling per month would you say on average?
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January 29, 2014, 08:06:04 AM
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So Allan, essentially you are stating that Microgaming, Playtech, IGT, NetEnt, Sheriff Gaming, Novomatic, EGT and countless others are providing rigged software, because every single casino that uses their software offers large bonuses, and is also RNG and does not feature the provably fair technology. You must be out of your mind to make such a ludacris statement. Have you EVER had any closer encounters to such software? My best guess is NO, otherwise you would know better. You would know about the different randomness tests their RNG's have gone through, something that most bitcoin casinos have not (and of course are left vulnerable against different attacks). You would know that their "guaranteed percentage profit" is guaranteed after tens of millions of games - which is a mathematical guarantee not a software one, and there are 0 guarantees in the short term. You would know other important facts, but I am not here to educate you, that's your job.

After such statements I can only wonder how can you push your opinion as credible, when there is no common sense in it at all.
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January 29, 2014, 11:46:20 AM
 #23

Casino bonuses are only industry standard for RNG casinos, the ones that "fix games" or in a better term set a guaranteed casino percentage profit. And unlike most RNG software, provably fair casinos each hand or game is not a guarantee for the casino and the outcome is truly random. Long term success statistically is impossible for a provably fair casino offering bonuses without a huge rollover. I can only think of one provably fair casino that offers a bonus,they are also stiffing players as we speak. That statement was accurate

I cannot stop laughing right now.
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January 29, 2014, 01:13:27 PM
 #24

I like just-dice the most because they seems very fair to me. On poker I like seals because of the number of players playing there.
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January 29, 2014, 01:20:02 PM
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Thanks for breaking it down. I do see your point that as soon as bigger slot providers start to support bitcoins there will be alot more great content available. As it is today there is nobody from the big slot producers allowing you to play directly with Bitcoins as far as I know. I guess its also a question if you provability wins over nice looking content (3d slot) for example?

How much do you spend for gambling per month would you say on average?

I am not your whale, I am your social player, maybe some day when BTC = $1mil I might be until then I play on USD average.

As more mass adoption hits, I think the provably fair issues will leave, I see it more as geek gambling.  Blackjack, roulette, and baccrat is easy either way but when you get into slots I want to be entertained, and only local slot game I play is Texas Tea.

Probably in a given month wife and I puts $100-200 a month into state run machines and we usually run about 10-25% deficient on that on a yearly average.  We do it socially, go out for an evening get dinner then play for a half hour and get a few drinks.  When we go to the local table game casino she puts $20 in slots, I play $100 of blackjack, but again its more of a night out, dinner drinks and etc.

Here in BTC earlier during college football season maybe $25-50 a week on sportsbettting and like I said ~$20 a week on black jack, but stopped mid season as BTC jumped from $100 a coin to $1000.  (These quick jumps are going to cause some in BTC to be cautious when the market moves)

Also as a note - I wont gamble any where here that wont keep it as BTC (no cash transactions) - though it would make a cheap exchange though, no transaction fees.

You run at 10% to 25% deficit - why do you do it?
Casino Nick
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January 29, 2014, 02:00:57 PM
 #26

777coin has unfortunately been down for almost a day now.  I would recommend checking in on them in a day or so, as their games are pretty unique.  Bit777's lack of slots is due to an unresolved problem with their video slot software.  I'd refer you to them for more details about the issue.

bitcoincasino24.com is certainly a good site at least in that I can confirm they pay out.  I've personally won non-trivial amounts that were paid.  They are running a popular turnkey solution, see: casino.betcoin.tm.  A few others have popped up using that same software, but I don't recall their names.  Their software is not provably fair, but probably fair.

In regards to BC-Casino, they either have developer support or at least an in house developer.  I discovered a very specific exploit in some of their games that was fixed rather quickly.  In any case, they're not utilizing that developer to create new games, which is unfortunate.

Bitoomba certainly has some unique games.  In the past I've received payouts from them, and I've also not received a large payout of ~6 BTC from them.  They're flaky at best, and their software is pretty buggy.  They do seem to be putting out new content periodically.

About provable fairness, I think it's important to a certain group of people.  A lot of people in the bitcoin community are IT professionals or otherwise possess a keen mathematical sense.  We understand how easy it would be for a site not bound by the regulations of a brick and mortar casino to rig their games, so the logic behind a provable fairness system eases allows us to ease that fear.  Additionally, a certain joy can be had seeing such a system in place and working.  I would, however, argue the majority of your target audience, gamblers in general, do not possess the ability or interest to understand such a system, and fun game play is more important.  I think that it should be sufficient to have your software audited by an ISO 9001 compliant lab in lieu of provable fairness, and to be transparent about how your software arrives at any given outcome given your RNG's input.  Basically, the bitcoin gambling community invented a solution to a problem that the corporate world was unwilling to provide.  If it was not so prohibitively expensive to have software audited, there likely would not have been a need to invent the provably fair system.

As far as bonuses and such go, I think they're only good if your target audience will be interested in them.  Bitzino has been around for a relatively long time, and was geared towards bitcoin enthusiasts.  I'd argue that this group's reaction to the typical online casino bonus would range from a simple lack of interest to outright offense.  The rollover requirements generally make them a bad deal for the player, and bitcoin enthusiasts probably have the math and logic skills to understand that.  These days, your interest should be focused on gamblers in general, and they're a much more impulsive bunch.

I would personally rather see offerings from IGT or WMS than Microgaming.  That being said, a Microgaming bitcoin casino would still be welcome.  I suppose it comes down to whether or not you want to be moderately successful, or best in class.  Either is fine, but if you give me the ability to play DaVinci Diamonds with bitcoin, I'll be your first customer.

I like how you make two categories "Provably fair" and "probably fair". Funny this stuff didn't even exist before bitcoin. You are right when you say that provability is not important for ordinary gamblers. Though it might be that players will educate themselves slowly and maybe request this feature. It's hard to say as what is going to happen.

The bonuses has been in the gaming industry for long time and yes the wagering requirements are good for casino since the more you wager the higher is a chance that the game will payout the percent that it was designed for. On the other hand players are normally able to cancel / forfeit bonuses which in the end leads to loosing all the previous winnings. What I think it is a bit difficult with bitcoin casinos is how to make sure that one person gets only one bonus as you do not need to provide any documents and IPs can be easily changed this days with all the VPN providers.

Do you think the bitcoin casinos as we know them today will disappear once Microgaming, Net Ent, IGT and WMS enter the market?

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January 29, 2014, 02:12:45 PM
 #27

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I do not really see many casinos offering any deposit bonuses

Provably fair casinos would go bankrupt if they would offer a bonus without some sort of exorbitant rollover requirement. Reason so, they are FAIR which is the keyword here. Companies that offer 200% cash bonuses for casino games clearly run a rigged house and should be avoided. Just take a look at the threads here this week, it's pretty clear who offers honest games and who does not.

I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your logic here quite well. Bonuses and free spins have been one of the biggest standard promotions in classic gambling industry. Why exactly you believe that in provable casinos it is different? Because all the big slot producers (NETENT, IGT, PT, WMS) are rigged?
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January 29, 2014, 02:17:32 PM
 #28

I dislike them all because they all provably take your money  Cool

They sure as hell do - one scheme after another. I make quite a big stink about it on their thread too. Matter of fact, I need to hit bitcoinvideocasion's thread up again. Damn slot machine discriminated against my larger bets and refused to hit any lines. But at least when it finally decides to pay, it pays. Unlike most of slot software out now. Sure, you'll hit something every few spins, but out of those, only about 1 out of 10 pays you higher than your initial bet. It's pretty shocking when a slot throws confetti at you and flash 'Big Win' in your face when you've only won .7 credits on a .3 game. OMG, the list just goes on and on. I should compile all this in one reference thread.

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January 29, 2014, 02:21:30 PM
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I dislike them all because they all provably take your money  Cool

They sure as hell do - one scheme after another. I make quite a big stink about it on their thread too. Matter of fact, I need to hit bitcoinvideocasion's thread up again. Damn slot machine discriminated against my larger bets and refused to hit any lines. But at least when it finally decides to pay, it pays. Unlike most of slot software out now. Sure, you'll hit something every few spins, but out of those, only about 1 out of 10 pays you higher than your initial bet. It's pretty shocking when a slot throws confetti at you and flash 'Big Win' in your face when you've only won .7 credits on a .3 game. OMG, the list just goes on and on. I should compile all this in one reference thread.

Simple answer - stop playing. We both know casinos are the ultimate riggers ....
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January 29, 2014, 02:22:33 PM
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I do not really see many casinos offering any deposit bonuses

Provably fair casinos would go bankrupt if they would offer a bonus without some sort of exorbitant rollover requirement. Reason so, they are FAIR which is the keyword here. Companies that offer 200% cash bonuses for casino games clearly run a rigged house and should be avoided. Just take a look at the threads here this week, it's pretty clear who offers honest games and who does not.

I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your logic here quite well. Bonuses and free spins have been one of the biggest standard promotions in classic gambling industry. Why exactly you believe that in provable casinos it is different? Because all the big slot producers (NETENT, IGT, PT, WMS) are rigged?

You can't find logic somewhere, where there isn't any. Alan was just trying to look smart in front of the newbies so he can lure them to his site... and they can lose their money in the provably fair casinos that pay him.
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January 29, 2014, 02:28:08 PM
 #31

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I do not really see many casinos offering any deposit bonuses

Provably fair casinos would go bankrupt if they would offer a bonus without some sort of exorbitant rollover requirement. Reason so, they are FAIR which is the keyword here. Companies that offer 200% cash bonuses for casino games clearly run a rigged house and should be avoided. Just take a look at the threads here this week, it's pretty clear who offers honest games and who does not.

I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your logic here quite well. Bonuses and free spins have been one of the biggest standard promotions in classic gambling industry. Why exactly you believe that in provable casinos it is different? Because all the big slot producers (NETENT, IGT, PT, WMS) are rigged?

You can't find logic somewhere, where there isn't any. Alan was just trying to look smart in front of the newbies so he can lure them to his site... and they can lose their money in the provably fair casinos that pay him.

Provably fair is fine - its just provably fair at 47% or whatever. Show me a casino provably fair at 51% and I'll stop by Smiley
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January 29, 2014, 02:28:46 PM
 #32

Quote
I do not really see many casinos offering any deposit bonuses

Provably fair casinos would go bankrupt if they would offer a bonus without some sort of exorbitant rollover requirement. Reason so, they are FAIR which is the keyword here. Companies that offer 200% cash bonuses for casino games clearly run a rigged house and should be avoided. Just take a look at the threads here this week, it's pretty clear who offers honest games and who does not.

I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your logic here quite well. Bonuses and free spins have been one of the biggest standard promotions in classic gambling industry. Why exactly you believe that in provable casinos it is different? Because all the big slot producers (NETENT, IGT, PT, WMS) are rigged?

You can't find logic somewhere, where there isn't any. Alan was just trying to look smart in front of the newbies so he can lure them to his site... and they can lose their money in the provably fair casinos that pay him.

Sure would hate for a fella to lose bitcoins to a FAIR casino wouldn't we. People are starting to understand the importance of provable fairness we won't let you lead the sheep to the slaughter house and it's been a pleasure on doing so may I add. We are actually publishing a debacle showing how "slow" you really are shortly.

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January 29, 2014, 02:33:50 PM
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Quote
I do not really see many casinos offering any deposit bonuses

Provably fair casinos would go bankrupt if they would offer a bonus without some sort of exorbitant rollover requirement. Reason so, they are FAIR which is the keyword here. Companies that offer 200% cash bonuses for casino games clearly run a rigged house and should be avoided. Just take a look at the threads here this week, it's pretty clear who offers honest games and who does not.

I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your logic here quite well. Bonuses and free spins have been one of the biggest standard promotions in classic gambling industry. Why exactly you believe that in provable casinos it is different? Because all the big slot producers (NETENT, IGT, PT, WMS) are rigged?

You can't find logic somewhere, where there isn't any. Alan was just trying to look smart in front of the newbies so he can lure them to his site... and they can lose their money in the provably fair casinos that pay him.

Sure would hate for a fella to lose bitcoins to a FAIR casino wouldn't we. People are starting to understand the importance of provable fairness we won't let you lead the sheep to the slaughter house and it's been a pleasure on doing so may I add. We are actually publishing a debacle showing how "slow" you really are shortly.

When you translate that into English please re-publish and I will read it.
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January 29, 2014, 02:35:11 PM
 #34

Provably fair casinos would go bankrupt if they would offer a bonus without some sort of exorbitant rollover requirement. Reason so, they are FAIR which is the keyword here. Companies that offer 200% cash bonuses for casino games clearly run a rigged house and should be avoided. Just take a look at the threads here this week, it's pretty clear who offers honest games and who does not.
I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your logic here quite well. Bonuses and free spins have been one of the biggest standard promotions in classic gambling industry. Why exactly you believe that in provable casinos it is different? Because all the big slot producers (NETENT, IGT, PT, WMS) are rigged?

Is that a fact? I don't doubt it, but guess I'll go consult Google. But I do agree with aksplace to an extent; casino's would go broke without a rollover requirement, they admit this - everyone would take the bonus and run. And think about it... if a casino offers an enormous bonus to every player and their games are really truly fair (whatever the hell this means, I don't even know anymore), what would that tell you about their bottom line? If their casino really has a 90+% payout as they claim, they're paying users for providing the entertainment! But even so, very few players actually meet the rollover requirement anyway. Bonuses attract players no doubt, it's all the baggage that comes along with it that's questionable.

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January 29, 2014, 02:37:18 PM
 #35

Hi guys,

I'm coming from iGaming industry and as you can see I'm quite new at this forum. I would love to hear your opinion about your experience good or bad with the Bitcoin casinos that you had so far.
Are you looking at it as a player or an actor?

1. Where do you like to play the most and why?
I think I will play the most at verajohn.com, since they have the highest quality of games, nice level system and so on. They claim to be "the first old" online casino that takes bitcoin.

2. Which is your favourite casino game?
Mega Fortune. Not really a bitcoin game but since I can now play it for bitcoin, I can win the huge jackpot.

3. Do you think current casinos are missing something that you would love to see in the next casino?
Well again, there's only the verajohn casino that has the high quality games that you should be used to from your iGaming background.

Thanks for the answers.

verajohn.com does look like a very nice solution. It's a blend of high quality content and bitcoin. Apart from accepting bitcoins still they miss almost all bitcoin casino primary advantages as I understand (provability, instant cashouts, privacy respected, no territory restrictions). Nevertheless I am sure they will attract a certain demographics of gamblers in bitcoin space.

I am sure that other classic online casinos will follow the lead.
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January 29, 2014, 02:38:54 PM
 #36

Provably fair casinos would go bankrupt if they would offer a bonus without some sort of exorbitant rollover requirement. Reason so, they are FAIR which is the keyword here. Companies that offer 200% cash bonuses for casino games clearly run a rigged house and should be avoided. Just take a look at the threads here this week, it's pretty clear who offers honest games and who does not.
I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your logic here quite well. Bonuses and free spins have been one of the biggest standard promotions in classic gambling industry. Why exactly you believe that in provable casinos it is different? Because all the big slot producers (NETENT, IGT, PT, WMS) are rigged?

Is that a fact? I don't doubt it, but guess I'll go consult Google. But I do agree with aksplace to an extent; casino's would go broke without a rollover requirement, they admit this - everyone would take the bonus and run. And think about it... if a casino offers an enormous bonus to every player and their games are really truly fair (whatever the hell this means, I don't even know anymore), what would that tell you about their bottom line? If their casino really has a 90+% payout as they claim, they're paying users for providing the entertainment! But even so, very few players actually meet the rollover requirement anyway. Bonuses attract players no doubt, it's all the baggage that comes along with it that's questionable.

Of course the math don't add up but they want you to believe its true, so every time you deposit and continue to lose it was just "bad luck". Most of these conman are worse then child rapist they would eat there own children if they had to. We are writing up a mathematical equation as we speak and breaking it down to show folks how they really roll who offer these so called HUGE BONUSES.

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January 29, 2014, 02:41:13 PM
 #37

FWIW, I played a few Internet casinos 10+ years ago when they offered free money. I played blackjack, luckily won and cashed out at $800.

What's interesting is not the money, but the fact my email address i used has been spammed by 2 dozen online casinos ever since. I can do nothing to get myself off these lists.

So:

1) Casino operators do not care about the law
2) They are a bunch of shit-heads.
3) The fact they would spam me for 10+ years without a single response shows what total shit-heads they are.

Smiley
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January 29, 2014, 02:53:22 PM
 #38

What's interesting is not the money, but the fact my email address i used has been spammed by 2 dozen online casinos ever since. I can do nothing to get myself off these lists.

Holy shit... This is happening to me now and I have no clue who the damn culprit is. Usually I give out my luckycris email... but I've signed up with a few sites recently using my real address, and like an idiot used my outlook client to send correspondence to tech support. Jesus. I may never know who sold my address.

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January 29, 2014, 02:57:41 PM
 #39

In a 8 deck shoe of Baccarat the house edge on a banker bet is 1.06%. Therefore, if you bet $1.00 for 10,000 games, the game balance should be around -1.06%*$10000 = -$100.60
Depending on what deposit and bonus offer you receive, the final balance will be different from casino to casino.

So lets suppose a casino offered you a 200% bonus with a 12x rollover. You will have to look in the fine print but for example BITOOMBA Casino says Baccarat hands equal only .25% of the rollover so we will have to multiply the 12x rollover by 4 to satisfy such bonus. If you deposit $100, just by playing Baccarat alone and only wagering $1.00 per spin you would have to play banker 14400 times to meet such rollover. Lets plug the numbers into the calculation and this is what you should end up around -1.06%*$14400 = -$152.64.

Initial Deposit  + $200 Bonus - $152.64 = +47.36

If this is the case the player has a real edge and is unsuitable for a casino to offer long term especially with bitcoins which anyone could actually create 100 accounts and take such bonus offers. One thing is certain, Most RNG casino software is designed to take advantage of players and without the really dumb providers exposing themselves (casino web scripts for example and also the same software Bit777 shilled for) it sadly goes undetected.

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January 29, 2014, 03:12:25 PM
 #40

Provably fair casinos would go bankrupt if they would offer a bonus without some sort of exorbitant rollover requirement. Reason so, they are FAIR which is the keyword here. Companies that offer 200% cash bonuses for casino games clearly run a rigged house and should be avoided. Just take a look at the threads here this week, it's pretty clear who offers honest games and who does not.
I am sorry but I am not sure I understand your logic here quite well. Bonuses and free spins have been one of the biggest standard promotions in classic gambling industry. Why exactly you believe that in provable casinos it is different? Because all the big slot producers (NETENT, IGT, PT, WMS) are rigged?

Is that a fact? I don't doubt it, but guess I'll go consult Google. But I do agree with aksplace to an extent; casino's would go broke without a rollover requirement, they admit this - everyone would take the bonus and run. And think about it... if a casino offers an enormous bonus to every player and their games are really truly fair (whatever the hell this means, I don't even know anymore), what would that tell you about their bottom line? If their casino really has a 90+% payout as they claim, they're paying users for providing the entertainment! But even so, very few players actually meet the rollover requirement anyway. Bonuses attract players no doubt, it's all the baggage that comes along with it that's questionable.

Regarding the rigged casinos it was a question actually. Regarding bonuses I don't see anything wrong for a casino having 40-50 times wagering requirement. In the end its up to the player if he wants to go that route or not. As mentioned you should be always able to cancel the bonus and keep your money shall you change your mind after depositing. Also I agree that many casinos are trying to be evil by tricking players into wrong decision by giving players too little info and then claiming afterwards that it was written in the small print. But luckily people are not stupid and this kind of techniques are short lived on the long run to keep up the reputable brand.

I think a good question is also how many Bitcoin casinos actually know how to provide good service to their customers. - Live support, how about responsible gaming where people actually can look for organisations that are providing help to addition with gambling or maybe having a nice user friendly FAQ.
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