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Author Topic: New York hearing on virtual currencies Day 1 videos  (Read 1124 times)
BTCisthefuture
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January 29, 2014, 04:05:28 AM
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Panel 1:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPXBdJtJPsg

Panel 2:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OEJiWhCOEk


Haven't finished watching all of it but some good/interesting stuff so far. They (New York) seems pretty open about bitcoin and open to trying to fully understand it more instead of just pretending they are experts on it from the start and spewing horribly wrong things and fear mongoring.

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January 29, 2014, 04:57:33 AM
 #2

Panel 1:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPXBdJtJPsg

Panel 2:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OEJiWhCOEk


Haven't finished watching all of it but some good/interesting stuff so far. They (New York) seems pretty open about bitcoin and open to trying to fully understand it more instead of just pretending they are experts on it from the start and spewing horribly wrong things and fear mongoring.

Hopefully things work out in New York but they tend to come down amazingly hard on anything to do with money so I'm not expecting them to willingly embrace bitcoin and other cryptos. Live in hope though.
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January 29, 2014, 05:08:04 AM
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First part was quite positive

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January 29, 2014, 05:11:48 AM
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Thanks for this I like the 35 mins on in part one

Part Two
I like Having Number 2 talking as it is nice we have a face to represent crypto
Litecoin is the second biggest and does have a known author
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January 29, 2014, 05:20:02 AM
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The fact that these discussions are even happening, speaks volumes regarding how seriously this is being taken...

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/28/in-praise-of-bitcoin-with-little-regard-for-banks/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

and from the Wall Street Journal:
 
By ROBIN SIDEL CONNECT
Updated Jan. 28, 2014 7:28 p.m. ET
Bitcoin backers defended the fledgling digital currency at a hearing in New York on Tuesday, one day after prosecutors announced money-laundering charges against prominent bitcoin businessman Charlie Shrem.

In the first of two days of hearings held by New York's top banking supervisor on the topic, prominent bitcoin entrepreneurs such as Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss acknowledged potential benefits of setting certain rules on the industry but warned that too much regulation could stall innovation and send jobs overseas.

The Winklevoss twins, best known for taking on Mark Zuckerberg over the founding of Facebook Inc., FB +2.97% are involved in a number of bitcoin investments and have proposed establishing an exchange-traded fund that is dedicated to bitcoin.

Regulation "will play the biggest role in bitcoin's forthcoming evolution," Cameron Winklevoss told a panel from the New York Department of Financial Services. He warned that "overregulation could cripple its development."

The hearings came as Mr. Shrem stepped down from his post as vice chairman of the board of the Bitcoin Foundation, the group said Tuesday. An early bitcoin advocate, Mr. Shrem was arrested and charged in connection with a money-laundering conspiracy. The Manhattan U.S. attorney's office said Monday that Mr. Shrem allegedly funneled more than $1 million of bitcoin to users of the online black-market site Silk Road.

Keith Miller, Mr. Shrem's lawyer, didn't respond to requests for comment. He said in court Monday that his client is "presumed innocent."

Responding to a question from Benjamin Lawsky, the superintendent of the New York financial-services department, who presided over the hearing, Tyler Winklevoss described the arrest of Mr. Shrem as a "speed bump" for the fledgling industry. The twins' investment vehicle, Winklevoss Capital Management, was an investor in Mr. Shrem's bitcoin exchange.

Created in 2009, bitcoin is a virtual currency that has attracted attention from investors, entrepreneurs and merchants. Unlike currencies such as the dollar and euro, it isn't backed by a central government.

Bitcoin was trading at about $845 Tuesday on the CoinDesk index of three bitcoin exchanges, up more than 40 times over the past year.

The currency has provoked intensifying debate in recent weeks. Hedge-fund manager Paul Singer wrote in a letter to investors this week that he was "shocked" by bitcoin's popularity and is skeptical of its long-term prospects.

"There is no more reason to believe that bitcoin will stand the test of time than that governments will protect the value of government-created money, although bitcoin is newer and we always look at babies with hope," wrote Mr. Singer, founder of the $23.3 billion Elliott Management Corp., in the letter.

An Elliott spokesman declined to comment beyond the letter.

New York's Mr. Lawsky has been among the most aggressive regulators to tackle the industry. He sent subpoenas to roughly 20 companies last year as part of a broad probe and said Tuesday that his office is likely to propose a "regulatory framework" for virtual currencies this year.

"Clearly, when it comes to virtual currencies, regulators are in new and uncharted waters," Mr. Lawsky said in opening remarks of the hearing.

The New York regulator has said that he may consider creating a "bitlicense" to handle issues that arise with bitcoin firms.

Mr. Lawsky acknowledged that the current banking system is sometimes inefficient, referring to the multiple days it takes for his credit-card bill payment to clear his bank, even though they both are part of the same institution. He didn't identify the bank.

Cameron Winklevoss also took issue with comments made last week by J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. Chief Executive James Dimon about bitcoin, specifically the point that the CEO made in a CNBC interview that "it's almost impossible" to know your client and conduct anti-money-laundering reviews when bitcoin is being used. "They will eventually be made as a payment system...to follow the same standards as all these other payment systems. That will probably be the end of them," Mr. Dimon said.

Mr. Winklevoss said Mr. Dimon has a "fundamental misunderstanding" of bitcoin. A J.P. Morgan spokesman declined to comment.

The hearing is set to continue Wednesday with representatives of law enforcement and other bitcoin executives.

Some bitcoin backers urged Mr. Lawsky to create structures that will allow bitcoin companies to more easily communicate with regulators. Fred Wilson, a partner at Union Square Ventures, which is pursuing bitcoin investments, suggested that Mr. Lawsky institute a "safe harbor" in which start-up bitcoin companies could alert the department about their operations even if they don't yet comply with all the money-transmission rules.

"Entrepreneurs are afraid to tell the [N.Y. Department of Financial Services] that they are operating for fear of being shut down," Mr. Wilson said.

But Mr. Lawsky said such companies would still need to show they are following anti-money-laundering rules, because, "if there's a choice between preventing money laundering and innovation, we're always going to choose squelching money-laundering first."

—Ryan Tracy and Rob Copeland contributed to this article.rom the Wall Street Journal

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January 29, 2014, 05:43:44 AM
 #6

First part was quite positive

I like the part about mega VCs investing in massive data centers to mine bitcoins. They're concerned about money laundering via bitcoins, but when given an example, nobody flinches.

Care for another example? Have you noticed all those Bitcoin Miner product sites lately? Not the ones discussed on this forum via threads introduced by their owners, of which are then turned into some sort of flame war or scam thread, but the other ones. The handsomely built ones, with all the bells and whistles, with order pages in place. Those, those that you'll never hear a single complaint about by nary a customer. Why? Because the owners are their only customers.

The above hit me like a ton a bricks only a few minutes into that first video. Every one of those sites that I eluded to above can easily transact, then covert to fiat directed to their bank accounts, a quarter to a half million dollars in sales and, get this, the entities could all be registered and totally in compliance.

For those playing at home desiring to know exactly how the above is played out, simply ask, whereupon I'll pen a detailed post outlining the simple procedure.

~TMIBTCITW
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January 29, 2014, 05:46:42 AM
 #7

Thanks for sharing.

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January 29, 2014, 06:52:03 AM
 #8

First part was quite positive

I like the part about mega VCs investing in massive data centers to mine bitcoins. They're concerned about money laundering via bitcoins, but when given an example, nobody flinches.

Care for another example? Have you noticed all those Bitcoin Miner product sites lately? Not the ones discussed on this forum via threads introduced by their owners, of which are then turned into some sort of flame war or scam thread, but the other ones. The handsomely built ones, with all the bells and whistles, with order pages in place. Those, those that you'll never hear a single complaint about by nary a customer. Why? Because the owners are their only customers.

The above hit me like a ton a bricks only a few minutes into that first video. Every one of those sites that I eluded to above can easily transact, then covert to fiat directed to their bank accounts, a quarter to a half million dollars in sales and, get this, the entities could all be registered and totally in compliance.

For those playing at home desiring to know exactly how the above is played out, simply ask, whereupon I'll pen a detailed post outlining the simple procedure.

~TMIBTCITW

I hear what you're saying, but do you have any evidence?
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January 29, 2014, 07:19:31 AM
 #9

"But Mr. Lawsky said such companies would still need to show they are following anti-money-laundering rules, because, "if there's a choice between preventing money laundering and innovation, we're always going to choose squelching money-laundering first."

That must be the most disingenuous BS statement I've read in a long time. It would be nice to see one of the presenters throw in a mention of HSBC and JPMorgan et al and ask the regulators to explain why they allow the too big to bail criminals openly get away with money laundering and in particular drug cartel money laundering.
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January 29, 2014, 07:35:17 AM
 #10

"But Mr. Lawsky said such companies would still need to show they are following anti-money-laundering rules, because, "if there's a choice between preventing money laundering and innovation, we're always going to choose squelching money-laundering first."

That must be the most disingenuous BS statement I've read in a long time. It would be nice to see one of the presenters throw in a mention of HSBC and JPMorgan et al and ask the regulators to explain why they allow the too big to bail criminals openly get away with money laundering and in particular drug cartel money laundering.


a bureaucrat and/or politician being disingenuous? You don't say?

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January 29, 2014, 08:44:06 AM
 #11

Not sure if it was Cameron or Tyler who said this (lol) but I found it to be one of the best statements made in the first video:

Quote
If you read through all of Satoshis writings, the pseudonymous creator of bitcoin, he definitely recognizes that bitcoin could appeal to certain ideologies, but he takes steps to not actually identify with any one of them, because I think chiefly he viewed himself as a problem solver. And I think, I wont speak for myself, but I see problem solvers on this panel. I see guys who want to make a solution; through code, through technology, through startups, entrepreneurs who are incredibly passionate. It's a very positive energy, and I think that sure there are people who identify with different aspects of Bitcoin, but I think the people that I see in the ecosystem and moving in at a fast pace and building things on a day to day basis are positive problem solvers, and I think that that is going to be the legacy of Bitcoin.

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empoweoqwj
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January 29, 2014, 08:47:33 AM
 #12

"But Mr. Lawsky said such companies would still need to show they are following anti-money-laundering rules, because, "if there's a choice between preventing money laundering and innovation, we're always going to choose squelching money-laundering first."

That must be the most disingenuous BS statement I've read in a long time. It would be nice to see one of the presenters throw in a mention of HSBC and JPMorgan et al and ask the regulators to explain why they allow the too big to bail criminals openly get away with money laundering and in particular drug cartel money laundering.


You've got to look at who is speaking and then decide on probability of anyone dissing HSBC and JPMorgan ...... 0% Smiley
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January 29, 2014, 11:42:10 AM
 #13

My two favorite parts:

1) The passion with which Fred Wilson derided the coming "JPMorgan Bitcoin" and its clones as a bunch of worthless crap.

2) Charlie Lee's response to the question about 'bad guys' launching 51% attacks -  "Maybe the US Government should mine, and help protect the network" (I am paraphrasing)

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January 29, 2014, 12:02:45 PM
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"But Mr. Lawsky said such companies would still need to show they are following anti-money-laundering rules, because, "if there's a choice between preventing money laundering and innovation, we're always going to choose squelching money-laundering first."

That must be the most disingenuous BS statement I've read in a long time. It would be nice to see one of the presenters throw in a mention of HSBC and JPMorgan et al and ask the regulators to explain why they allow the too big to bail criminals openly get away with money laundering and in particular drug cartel money laundering.


You've got to look at who is speaking and then decide on probability of anyone dissing HSBC and JPMorgan ...... 0% Smiley

Ditto on this.

We should have had Andreas Antonopolous in the sessions, he wouldnt have pulled any punches.

He's also a fantastic communicator who explains not only how bitcoin works but also the future benefits. Most of the people in session 2 seemed to have a sketchy idea of what bitcoin is, including Charlie Lee, he may be a great coder but we need great communicators in these sessions before law makers and politicians.

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January 29, 2014, 12:25:12 PM
 #15

First part was quite positive

I like the part about mega VCs investing in massive data centers to mine bitcoins. They're concerned about money laundering via bitcoins, but when given an example, nobody flinches.

Care for another example? Have you noticed all those Bitcoin Miner product sites lately? Not the ones discussed on this forum via threads introduced by their owners, of which are then turned into some sort of flame war or scam thread, but the other ones. The handsomely built ones, with all the bells and whistles, with order pages in place. Those, those that you'll never hear a single complaint about by nary a customer. Why? Because the owners are their only customers.

The above hit me like a ton a bricks only a few minutes into that first video. Every one of those sites that I eluded to above can easily transact, then covert to fiat directed to their bank accounts, a quarter to a half million dollars in sales and, get this, the entities could all be registered and totally in compliance.

For those playing at home desiring to know exactly how the above is played out, simply ask, whereupon I'll pen a detailed post outlining the simple procedure.

~TMIBTCITW

What you describe is not bitcoin specific and it already happens everyday. Its what we call "money laundering" ....

Notice how ppl clean their money thro their own business? Kinda funny when you think you found a loophole tho.....

The second market guy said it all correct " i dont see how or why mining would need regulation?"

Thats it about mining. Stop making you sound like you've just invented a wheel.
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January 29, 2014, 05:04:45 PM
 #16

"But Mr. Lawsky said such companies would still need to show they are following anti-money-laundering rules, because, "if there's a choice between preventing money laundering and innovation, we're always going to choose squelching money-laundering first."

That must be the most disingenuous BS statement I've read in a long time. It would be nice to see one of the presenters throw in a mention of HSBC and JPMorgan et al and ask the regulators to explain why they allow the too big to bail criminals openly get away with money laundering and in particular drug cartel money laundering.


You've got to look at who is speaking and then decide on probability of anyone dissing HSBC and JPMorgan ...... 0% Smiley

Ditto on this.

We should have had Andreas Antonopolous in the sessions, he wouldnt have pulled any punches.

He's also a fantastic communicator who explains not only how bitcoin works but also the future benefits. Most of the people in session 2 seemed to have a sketchy idea of what bitcoin is, including Charlie Lee, he may be a great coder but we need great communicators in these sessions before law makers and politicians.


Tit-for-tat! Benjamin M. Lawsky's asking the questions. BTW, Lawsky? Seriously? Hell, Carlton Banks should've been on the panel.
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January 29, 2014, 05:19:42 PM
 #17

First part was quite positive

I like the part about mega VCs investing in massive data centers to mine bitcoins. They're concerned about money laundering via bitcoins, but when given an example, nobody flinches.

Care for another example? Have you noticed all those Bitcoin Miner product sites lately? Not the ones discussed on this forum via threads introduced by their owners, of which are then turned into some sort of flame war or scam thread, but the other ones. The handsomely built ones, with all the bells and whistles, with order pages in place. Those, those that you'll never hear a single complaint about by nary a customer. Why? Because the owners are their only customers.

The above hit me like a ton a bricks only a few minutes into that first video. Every one of those sites that I eluded to above can easily transact, then covert to fiat directed to their bank accounts, a quarter to a half million dollars in sales and, get this, the entities could all be registered and totally in compliance.

For those playing at home desiring to know exactly how the above is played out, simply ask, whereupon I'll pen a detailed post outlining the simple procedure.

~TMIBTCITW

What you describe is not bitcoin specific and it already happens everyday. Its what we call "money laundering" ....

Notice how ppl clean their money thro their own business? Kinda funny when you think you found a loophole tho.....

The second market guy said it all correct " i dont see how or why mining would need regulation?"

Thats it about mining. Stop making you sound like you've just invented a wheel.


I'm not trying to make it sound like I just invented/reinvented the wheel.

Ready for some more butthurt? Consider all them alt coins. Surely, no one would argue that nary a one of them is used for laundering fiat.

Try following that/those public blockchains.

Fiat ---> Bitcoin ---> Alt1 --> Alt2 --> AltEtc... --> BTC --> Fiat
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January 29, 2014, 07:05:13 PM
 #18

one thing is clear from the videos is that regulators love the words "regulatory framework" 

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