[ANN][MAX] MAXcoin - PoW, ASIC Resistance, Keccak GPU Mining

[PJDavis1970]

All this talk about botnets but I think people are underestimating the dev teams ability and knowledge.  The team behind this coin are not just teenagers with enough cash to use one of these online generation sites.  They are actual graduates in IT and they are Crypto enthusiasts.  They are not just a few people out to make a quick quid here and there.

Personally I have faith in what they are doing.  Anyone with enough understanding of Software engineering and the crypto market would not just flippantly release a cpu coin if they knew it could easily be controlled by a botnet.

On top of all of that why not use your brain for a second.  Was this coin rushed out?  No and why is that?  Possibly because time and effort has been put into it to make sure it is right.  Rather than just sitting there spurting drivel why not just for once allow your glass to be half full rather than half empty.

Have a bit of faith guys.

[bevardisxx]

All this talk about botnets but I think people are underestimating the dev teams ability and knowledge.  The team behind this coin are not just teenagers with enough cash to use one of these online generation sites.  They are actual graduates in IT and they are Crypto enthusiasts.  They are not just a few people out to make a quick quid here and there.

Personally I have faith in what they are doing.  Anyone with enough understanding of Software engineering and the crypto market would not just flippantly release a cpu coin if they knew it could easily be controlled by a botnet.

On top of all of that why not use your brain for a second.  Was this coin rushed out?  No and why is that?  Possibly because time and effort has been put into it to make sure it is right.  Rather than just sitting there spurting drivel why not just for once allow your glass to be half full rather than half empty.

Have a bit of faith guys.

Coin is not rushed out because this is how the marketing campaign is structured - well done, let's hope the botnets will not outperform real people who believe in crypto future.

[Bigeyeone]

A word of advice to the organisers of this project. I know it's not easy to keep everyone happy, but you can't allow a fear to regulate last minute decisions. You've made your decisions in good faith and reason, and you've communicated those outcomes to your audience, now you need to stick to your guns, come hell or high water.

There is no real substantial evidence that the fears of botnet mining are real. In fact, in the past, botnet operators have been honest about mining. Botnet operators have as much place in the cryptocurrency community as anyone, because they, just like anyone else who mines do the network a service by securing it. The network does not discriminate in this way, and neither should it. Any botnet operator will participate in the cryptocurrency economy if it is worthwhile.

The fact of the matter is this: CPU mining is the only true decentralised way we know of to distribute a coin as fairly as possible because anyone with a CPU can mine, and almost everyone has access to a CPU, whereas not everyone has access to a GPU. Don't screw the people who supported you up to this point and then end up locking them out of participating because of botnet fears (you'll just trade the fear of CPU centralisation for the reality of GPU centralisation). Where have we seen that kind of logic before?

Just my 2¢. No hate required.

yeah right , criminals that steal resources have a rightful place in the cryptocurrency community, honest thieves huh   let me take a wild guess, you own a botnet?

[_ingsoc]

No good reasons to NOT go for GPU's in my opinion. I mean ; most people have at least one GPU, right ?

Plenty of people rely on cloud hashing because electricity is too expensive where they live.

[_ingsoc]

yeah right , criminals that steal resources have a rightful place in the cryptocurrency community, honest thieves huh   let me take a wild guess, you own a botnet?

I do not. This is just my personal opinion. It becomes impossible to determine who steals what, so we end up blocking far more users than the isolated few who own botnets when we give into fears over mining centralisation (when in fact the opposite ends up happening).

[gaston909]

Funny how Max is a critic of unlimited supply of fiat currencies but yet support unlimited supply of cryptos..

NOBODY can argue with that one.

[PJDavis1970]

All this talk of botnets have got me thinking though.  As a software engineer with 27 years behind me and vast experience of writing network software I am wondering how good botnets actually are when it comes to cpu mining solo.  In a pool I can see how botnets would gain a vast amount of hashing power but solo mining is a completely different thing.

First off think about the cpu's that the bonnet will have control off.  The chances are the majority of the cpu's will be low end.  Laptops,  People who are not computer literate enough to protect their machines.  The chances of a botnet having control of a high end gaming rig are low.  Even if they did the chances are that gaming rig will only be on when the person is gaming so the performance for mining will be low because the cpu is in use gaming.

Now think about a botnet of 100 cup's.  Lets go by my previous assumption that those cpu's are low power. Think about how the network will work.  Effectively the botnet is like a pool.  Each of those controlled cpu's mining.  Now think about my i7 running at 4.3ghz.  The chances are my i7 is going to find more blocks than a 100 1 ghz cpu's.  The reason is each of those 100 cpu's are all going to be trying to do a calculation and my i7 is faster so it will find it quicker.

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt against 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

Now I might be completely wrong as I have not read up on how the actually mining and network for crypto coins work but I am sure as hell that it does not share the work equally between all cpu's in a botnet to find the solution quicker.

[Bigeyeone]

All this talk of botnets have got me thinking though.  As a software engineer with 27 years behind me and vast experience of writing network software I am wondering how good botnets actually are when it comes to cpu mining solo.  In a pool I can see how botnets would gain a vast amount of hashing power but solo mining is a completely different thing.

First off think about the cpu's that the bonnet will have control off.  The chances are the majority of the cpu's will be low end.  Laptops,  People who are not computer literate enough to protect their machines.  The chances of a botnet having control of a high end gaming rig are low.  Even if they did the chances are that gaming rig will only be on when the person is gaming so the performance for mining will be low because the cpu is in use gaming.

Now think about a botnet of 100 cup's.  Lets go by my previous assumption that those cpu's are low power. Think about how the network will work.  Effectively the botnet is like a pool.  Each of those controlled cpu's mining.  Now think about my i7 running at 4.3ghz.  The chances are my i7 is going to find more blocks than a 100 1 ghz cup's.  The reason is each of those 100 cpu's are all going to be trying to do a calculation and my i7 is faster so it will find it quicker.

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt again 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

Now I might be completely wrong as I have not red up on how the actually mining and network for crypto coins work but I am sure as hell that it does not share the work equally between all cpu's in a botnet to find the solution quicker.

The Botnet operators deploy their own modified version of CPUminer, they do not deploy wallets, the CPUminer just connects to a pool of their choosing, they are not solomining on their bots.

[PJDavis1970]

All this talk of botnets have got me thinking though.  As a software engineer with 27 years behind me and vast experience of writing network software I am wondering how good botnets actually are when it comes to cpu mining solo.  In a pool I can see how botnets would gain a vast amount of hashing power but solo mining is a completely different thing.

First off think about the cpu's that the bonnet will have control off.  The chances are the majority of the cpu's will be low end.  Laptops,  People who are not computer literate enough to protect their machines.  The chances of a botnet having control of a high end gaming rig are low.  Even if they did the chances are that gaming rig will only be on when the person is gaming so the performance for mining will be low because the cpu is in use gaming.

Now think about a botnet of 100 cup's.  Lets go by my previous assumption that those cpu's are low power. Think about how the network will work.  Effectively the botnet is like a pool.  Each of those controlled cpu's mining.  Now think about my i7 running at 4.3ghz.  The chances are my i7 is going to find more blocks than a 100 1 ghz cup's.  The reason is each of those 100 cpu's are all going to be trying to do a calculation and my i7 is faster so it will find it quicker.

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt again 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

Now I might be completely wrong as I have not red up on how the actually mining and network for crypto coins work but I am sure as hell that it does not share the work equally between all cpu's in a botnet to find the solution quicker.

The Botnet operators deploy their own modified version of CPUminer, they do not deploy wallets, the CPUminer just connects to a pool of their choosing, they are not solomining on their bots.

So like I said.  The bonnet gains money because its getting a share from a large total hash.  Whereas solo mining a few good high end cpu's will always win.

Think about a gpu farm.  2 setups.

- 1 Machine with 6 gpu's
- 6 Machines with 1 gpu

The single machine with 6 gpu's will win the majority of blocks because the workload is shared between 6 gpu's whereas on the single gpu machines all 6 of them are working against each other.

And all of this means it is no different to any other coin mining.  The boy with the single gpu mining in a pool against someone with 80 gnu farm or the guy with 2 333mhs asic's against the company with 1ths asic's

[illodin]

The chances are my i7 is going to find more blocks than a 100 1 ghz cpu's.  The reason is each of those 100 cpu's are all going to be trying to do a calculation and my i7 is faster so it will find it quicker.

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt against 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

Now I might be completely wrong as I have not read up on how the actually mining and network for crypto coins work but I am sure as hell that it does not share the work equally between all cpu's in a botnet to find the solution quicker.

No. Think of it as a lottery. Miners will try to guess the correct number. You can buy 5 tickets with your 5GHz cpu, and 1 ticket with a 1 GHz cpu. 5 tickets will win far less than 100 tickets.

[PJDavis1970]

The chances are my i7 is going to find more blocks than a 100 1 ghz cpu's.  The reason is each of those 100 cpu's are all going to be trying to do a calculation and my i7 is faster so it will find it quicker.

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt against 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

Now I might be completely wrong as I have not read up on how the actually mining and network for crypto coins work but I am sure as hell that it does not share the work equally between all cpu's in a botnet to find the solution quicker.

No. Think of it as a lottery. Miners will try to guess the correct number. You can buy 5 tickets with your 5GHz cpu, and 1 ticket with a 1 GHz cpu. 5 tickets will win far less than 100 tickets.

Same thing as I said but different analogy.  My whole point is botnets are seriously not an issue.  

In fact its not as simple as that.  Each new block starts a new sequence of calculations.  Its not just a case of picking a random number and hoping.  Its running an algorithm trying to find a result.  The i7 has a much better chance because it can handle far more clock cycles than something like a 1ghz cpu so i7 will always have a far better chance.

[Blogger™]

Waiting for the coin to get launched!! Hope I mine shitloads of them

[gaston909]

Anyone want to sell some ?

I have maxcoin on pre-order   

[bitcerto]

I just want to voice my support for this coin. That is all.

[crypto_girl]

Watching this coin Max  

[illodin]

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt against 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

No. Think of it as a lottery. Miners will try to guess the correct number. You can buy 5 tickets with your 5GHz cpu, and 1 ticket with a 1 GHz cpu. 5 tickets will win far less than 100 tickets.

Same thing as I said but different analogy.

Not at all same thing.

In fact its not as simple as that.  Each new block starts a new sequence of calculations.  Its not just a case of picking a random number and hoping.  Its running an algorithm trying to find a result.  The i7 has a much better chance because it can handle far more clock cycles than something like a 1ghz cpu so i7 will always have a far better chance.

Really?

5GHz cpu has the same chance as 5x1GHz cpus.

[Bigeyeone]

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt against 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

No. Think of it as a lottery. Miners will try to guess the correct number. You can buy 5 tickets with your 5GHz cpu, and 1 ticket with a 1 GHz cpu. 5 tickets will win far less than 100 tickets.

Same thing as I said but different analogy.

Not at all same thing.

In fact its not as simple as that.  Each new block starts a new sequence of calculations.  Its not just a case of picking a random number and hoping.  Its running an algorithm trying to find a result.  The i7 has a much better chance because it can handle far more clock cycles than something like a 1ghz cpu so i7 will always have a far better chance.

Really?

5GHz cpu has the same chance as 5x1GHz cpus.

In the end, it is all about the hashrate, more hash is more coin

[PJDavis1970]

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt against 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

No. Think of it as a lottery. Miners will try to guess the correct number. You can buy 5 tickets with your 5GHz cpu, and 1 ticket with a 1 GHz cpu. 5 tickets will win far less than 100 tickets.

Same thing as I said but different analogy.

Not at all same thing.

In fact its not as simple as that.  Each new block starts a new sequence of calculations.  Its not just a case of picking a random number and hoping.  Its running an algorithm trying to find a result.  The i7 has a much better chance because it can handle far more clock cycles than something like a 1ghz cpu so i7 will always have a far better chance.

Really?

5GHz cpu has the same chance as 5x1GHz cpus.

As stated before this only applies when in a pool not solo

ok its like this.

6 cpu's  1 4.3ghz and 5 1ghz.

All 6 cpu's start a new algorithm.  The first one to find the solution gets it ok.  the 4.3 ghz has more chance of finding the answer because its faster.  The 5 1ghz are all running the same algorithm.  They are not working together to give 5x1ghz they are all running at 1ghz.

You have to consider the 5 x 1ghz as 5 separate machines.  The only way the 5 could run together to give 5ghz is for them to all be running on the same bus, same motherboard but even then the latency would mean they would still only run at about 4ghz.

A Basic example for you.  Think of a rng generator.  It has to pick a number from 0-99 and needs to pic the number 0.  Think of that as the way a block is generated ( OK I KNOW ITS NOT BEFORE PEOPLE SLAM IT…its an example.  )

Now think about 2 cpu's running a loop

int result = 100;
while( result > 0 )
    result = random(100);

That loop will continue until result = 0;  Not going to calculate exact clock cycles of that loop or how fast either cpu could execute it but lets say hypothetically that the 4.3 ghz cpu could loop it 4.3 times faster than the 1ghz cpu.  It means it has 4.3 times the chance of hitting 0 before the 1ghz.  Ok randomness gives both cpu's a chance but the 4.3 ghz has more of a chance.

Now consider 2 1ghz cpu;s running that loop.  They are both running it at same speed but the odd's of them hitting it before the 4.3 is only slightly more.  They are still running at 1ghz though.  They are not running twice as fast because there are 2 of them they are both running at the slower speed.

[PJDavis1970]

Think about 100m race.  if you put Usain Bolt against 100,000 one legged dwarfs then there is still going to be only one winner.

No. Think of it as a lottery. Miners will try to guess the correct number. You can buy 5 tickets with your 5GHz cpu, and 1 ticket with a 1 GHz cpu. 5 tickets will win far less than 100 tickets.

Same thing as I said but different analogy.

Not at all same thing.

In fact its not as simple as that.  Each new block starts a new sequence of calculations.  Its not just a case of picking a random number and hoping.  Its running an algorithm trying to find a result.  The i7 has a much better chance because it can handle far more clock cycles than something like a 1ghz cpu so i7 will always have a far better chance.

Really?

5GHz cpu has the same chance as 5x1GHz cpus.

In the end, it is all about the hashrate, more hash is more coin

this only applies in a pool not solo.  Solo the 4.3 ghz cpu would probably get about 80% of the blocks.

[Warning__3]

When a cpu is hashing, all it's doing is calculate the block with a random nonce to find the right nonce that will produce a accepted hash.
So why would 5 1ghz cpu trying all different nonce at the same time be slower than 1 4.3ghz cpu?