{PSA} Is a 51% attack really all that bad? Because it's looming...

[Anubite]

I've been trying to warn people of the potential effects of a single pool at over 20gh/s that can change the coin it mines at a whim, but many just cry troll or tune it out...

It was a major problem for the community when cex.io was nearly reaching 51% of the BTC mining. Middlecoin is sitting pretty without much in the realm of criticism. Double standard?

Middlecoin has quickly grown into quite possibly the largest scrypt-based pool in existence, one that can even switch coins as frequently as every 5 seconds. When they mine, they are over 1/4th the hashrate of Doge, over 7.5x that of Feathercoin, and to boot they mine coins with as low as 6 difficulty. They are controlling on upwards of 80% of the hashrate of most of the coins they mine.

By dominating the hashrate at fixed intervals, they can mine in short bursts at a theoretically lower difficulty, while selling at higher rates. This illusory tactic has made dead coins appear alive and live coins appear healthy by manipulating the "profitability" numbers among other things, thus allowing them to dump their coins more effectively to an unknowing public. Miners are also, in turn, turned off a given coin by the highly unpredictable ROI figures for a given day of mining, especially when they "could make more at Middlecoin and then buy other alts."

Flooding the market with supply in combination with difficulty fixing, potentially great coins are suppressed, repressed, and rendered sterile. Kept afloat too long or sunk in fair weather, the harmful effects can last varying lengths of time from days to months, usually. The massive, sporadic dumps cause such a wide flux in exchange rates and have broken record buy walls, leading to even greater uncertainty looming over every potential investor.

This all can be referred to as a soft 51% attack. If they are ever hacked or the admin loses his mind, a hard 51% attack is likely to be irreversible.

"I don't mind, I'm glad I can profit off killing shitty coins."
"The market needs culling anyways."
"If you don't like how we do business, mine elsewhere."
"I'm only in it for the BTC."

Such are the excuses I'll hear whenever I express such concerns...Maybe anyone who cared enough to speak up was demonized or "ignored," much like myself. Perhaps they have walked away, tail between legs, uninterested in a debate with guard dogs and being given a slew of accusations.

Where is the community? Where is the outrage? Is this truly nothing to care about? Is this "just how it is" or "the nature of the game?" It wasn't that way with cex...a precedent that needs to be upheld.

[Anubite]

(reserved for future updates)

[gsrcrxsi]

everyone thinks that the second a pool goes from 50.999999% to 51% that the internet will blow up.

"uh oh, looks like this pool is getting close to 51%, better go elsewhere!"
"51% guys, be careful!"

seriously? who cares. Middlecoin is proof that simply having >51% in itself doesnt cause any damage. it's ONLY if the pool owner decides to be malicious. I guess people don't understand that just because something CAN happen, doesn't mean that it WILL happen.

ive been on plenty of pools with >51%, and it's awesome because they get most of the blocks and i get more payout. i prefer to be on the largest pool possible for that reason.

I'm in it for the money, long live Middlecoin!

[Whicker]

I agree its not right that there gains are deticated miners loss but people are lazy and greedy. Sadly that's the world we live in today its all about what they can get now. No one cares about what they are doing to other people anymore. That's why the older generation looks at this one as feeling entitled.  Considering the only other post is some douche defending Middlecoin it just proves my point.

[Anubite]

everyone thinks that the second a pool goes from 50.999999% to 51% that the internet will blow up.

"uh oh, looks like this pool is getting close to 51%, better go elsewhere!"
"51% guys, be careful!"

seriously? who cares. Middlecoin is proof that simply having >51% in itself doesnt cause any damage. it's ONLY if the pool owner decides to be malicious. I guess people don't understand that just because something CAN happen, doesn't mean that it WILL happen.

ive been on plenty of pools with >51%, and it's awesome because they get most of the blocks and i get more payout. i prefer to be on the largest pool possible for that reason.

I'm in it for the money, long live Middlecoin!

So the supply floods and difficulty fixing are not damaging. Ok, bud.

I agree its not right that there gains are deticated miners loss but people are lazy and greedy. Sadly that's the world we live in today its all about what they can get now. No one cares about what they are doing to other people anymore. That's why the older generation looks at this one as feeling entitled.  Considering the only other post is some douche defending Middlecoin it just proves my point.

Yup.

[kalus]

So the supply floods and difficulty fixing are not damaging. Ok, bud.

nowhere nearly as damaging as speculators pumping and dumping the coin. 

[Prolifik]

Build more profit switching pools and pylons, we could always use more pylons.

[Starlightbreaker]

51% attacks are a myth.

They do not exist.


~BCX~

said the girl..er...guy...whatever...that 51% so many coins before

lolol                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

[Anubite]

So the supply floods and difficulty fixing are not damaging. Ok, bud.

nowhere nearly as damaging as speculators pumping and dumping the coin. 

Actually, far more so. They just dump, like no dumper can. There is no counter.

[balanghai]

WDC and other coins are victims of these. Well, not of like a murder to a victim type of aggression but somehow near it.

[Starlightbreaker]

51% attacks are a myth.

They do not exist.


~BCX~

said the girl..er...guy...whatever...that 51% so many coins before

lolol

51% attacks are so 2011....

The ArtForz modified Timewarp is the beast to deal with these days.

(rip ArtForz)


~BCX~

that shit is still not fixed?

artforz, where's that guy..                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

[jballs]

Vertcoin is somewhat impervious to all of these issues.

(I will let you figure out the details)

[Anubite]

WDC and other coins are victims of these. Well, not of like a murder to a victim type of aggression but somehow near it.

Yeah, I've watched it go down. They wont let it grow, because every bit of growth means they attack the coin harder. Earthcoin has been shit on hard lately. It sits at 12 difficulty, then MC swoops in, mines a **** ton of blocks in 30 seconds and raises the difficulty right back to 30. They then sell at the average price for 25 difficulty.

This soft 51% attacking is not capable of being countered. They are hurting the market something fierce.

[rapidfire187]

51% attacks are a myth.

They do not exist.


~BCX~

[jballs]

WDC and other coins are victims of these. Well, not of like a murder to a victim type of aggression but somehow near it.

Yeah, I've watched it go down. They wont let it grow, because every bit of growth means they attack the coin harder. Earthcoin has been shit on hard lately. It sits at 12 difficulty, then MC swoops in, mines a **** ton of blocks in 30 seconds and raises the difficulty right back to 30. They then sell at the average price for 25 difficulty.

This soft 51% attacking is not capable of being countered. They are hurting the market something fierce.

fixed

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404364.0

?

[Anubite]

WDC and other coins are victims of these. Well, not of like a murder to a victim type of aggression but somehow near it.

Yeah, I've watched it go down. They wont let it grow, because every bit of growth means they attack the coin harder. Earthcoin has been shit on hard lately. It sits at 12 difficulty, then MC swoops in, mines a **** ton of blocks in 30 seconds and raises the difficulty right back to 30. They then sell at the average price for 25 difficulty.

This soft 51% attacking is not capable of being countered. They are hurting the market something fierce.

fixed

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404364.0

?

The difficulty retargeting is already done by Earthcoin, with no benefit in protecting really anything other than a dramatic coin freeze.

I am curious, however, how the N factor stuff really works and what it means. I'm not a big codemonkey. Looks promising. A coin with something actually new to provide! Albeit with a less than stellar name...lol.

[BrewCrewFan]

WDC and other coins are victims of these. Well, not of like a murder to a victim type of aggression but somehow near it.

Yeah, I've watched it go down. They wont let it grow, because every bit of growth means they attack the coin harder. Earthcoin has been shit on hard lately. It sits at 12 difficulty, then MC swoops in, mines a **** ton of blocks in 30 seconds and raises the difficulty right back to 30. They then sell at the average price for 25 difficulty.

This soft 51% attacking is not capable of being countered. They are hurting the market something fierce.

fixed

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=404364.0

?

The difficulty retargeting is already done by Earthcoin, with no benefit in protecting really anything other than a dramatic coin freeze.

I am curious, however, how the N factor stuff really works and what it means. I'm not a big codemonkey. Looks promising. A coin with something actually new to provide! Albeit with a less than stellar name...lol.

The problem is get worse if there is ever a script asic. Every coin will be ruined, of course that will be great news for those that hate alt coins outside LTC....

[dewdeded]

OP: You have to remember/understand miners don't care about coins and their health. They just care about their profit.
Thats why they dont care about Middlecoin doing damage or your thread.


But I understand you and share your concerns.

Solutions are hard to find. For some coins it is bribing the Middlecoin admin, so he avoids your coin.

[Anubite]

OP: You have to remember/understand miners don't care about coins and their health. They just care about their profit.
Thats why they dont care about Middlecoin doing damage or your thread.


But I understand you and share your concerns.

Solutions are hard to find. For some coins it is bribing the Middlecoin admin, so he avoids your coin.

It's a mad world.

If only people would care that keeping the market healthy would lead to greater profits down the road. Maybe they just don't have faith that there will be profit in the future.

Twice as bright, half as long.

[kalus]

So the supply floods and difficulty fixing are not damaging. Ok, bud.

nowhere nearly as damaging as speculators pumping and dumping the coin.  

Actually, far more so. They just dump, like no dumper can. There is no counter.

no, becuase a miner actually produces coins from a mining operation.  the miner trades his hashrate, gpu-time, and electricity for the value they're receiving.  when a mining operation dumps, they provide new coins.  they are production, and there is mutual benefit.  without miners you would have no coins to hold value, or perform transactions. 

the speculator adds no value (e.g. coins) to the transaction:  the speculator only extracts value from the coin's userbase when they dump.  when they extract value by dumping, they do not give anything back in return to the coin.  Commensal at best, and parasitic at their worst.