{BFL} Bitcoin miners sue Butterfly Labs

[dropt]

I figured you'd be too chicken to man up yet again Bickski.

I figured all of you washed up BFL shills had moved onto some other dead horse to beat.  Guess not.  I see you forgot to respond to the other poster's questions, so let me re-iterate.  Where's that Monarch of yours?

Here's another thought:  with that supposed intelligence of yours, why don't you branch out into other areas of bitcointalk so you don't come off as such a one-trick pony.

[Unacceptable]

I figured you'd be too chicken to man up yet again Bickski.

I figured all of you washed up BFL shills had moved onto some other dead horse to beat.  Guess not.  I see you forgot to respond to the other poster's questions, so let me re-iterate.  Where's that Monarch of yours?

Here's another thought:  with that supposed intelligence of yours, why don't you branch out into other areas of bitcointalk so you don't come off as such a one-trick pony.

Got a pic of bcp19 & Josh hangin out on a field trip 

[Bicknellski]

Taunts?

That is how he replies?

Lawsuit thoughts?

Monarch 4 months late thoughts?


Crickets yet again.

I'll be sure to be back in the BFL Monarch Order thread on 18 February when my deadline is for checking in on how much he and others have mined so far on their Monarchs.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=352448.msg3772046#msg3772046
 
My guess come February 18th he will have mined exactly 0 BTC. He will be waiting until March, April possibly May or later for a unit. At this point I am pretty happy he has no clue how to buy miners with at least a hope in hell of making it to market at a reasonable price and that are NOT chicken wired together and require you put it in a snowbank to get it working again or shipped with bottom of the barrel cheap and dangerous Chinese knock off PSU's that have almost burned down a house or nearly electrocuted a few people.

This guy like others is a paid shill for BFL and that is why he is on ignore with the rest of the liars that still support BFL. It is obvious to most the game they play is simply to deny deny deny when the proof is everywhere that they everyone of them lacks the basic ethics that are standard to most human beings. What takes REAL balls and REAL courage is to tell the truth and not be BOUGHT by BFL. Being a liar is pretty easy and the way of a coward or a sociopath I wonder which one he is?

[bcp19]

I figured you'd be too chicken to man up yet again Bickski.

I figured all of you washed up BFL shills had moved onto some other dead horse to beat.  Guess not.  I see you forgot to respond to the other poster's questions, so let me re-iterate.  Where's that Monarch of yours?

Here's another thought:  with that supposed intelligence of yours, why don't you branch out into other areas of bitcointalk so you don't come off as such a one-trick pony.

Are you ingnorant or just plain stupid?  I did answer his question, I told him my Monarch was in the same place his WASP and HIVE are ATM.  I still bet I have my hands on a Monarch before I do on a WASP.

[dropt]

Are you ingnorant or just plain stupid?  I did answer his question, I told him my Monarch was in the same place his WASP and HIVE are ATM.  I still bet I have my hands on a Monarch before I do on a WASP.

That's not an answer, that's a deflection.  So BFL's Monarch is still in the design phase?  The same phase where the Wasp people haven't taken any money?  The one where they were going to ship the "bullet run" cards in November? That's where you claim the Monarch's are?

I should hope you'll have your hands on a Monarch before a WASP considering they (Monarch) were supposed to be delivered months ago, that you and a bunch of other idiots found it viable to give BFL millions of dollars for R&D/NRE based on more of J. Zerlan's bullshit hopes, dreams, and expectations.  I absolutely expect that a bunch of people claiming to be "industry leaders" with millions in their budget to outperform a community driven project. 

If your only defence to BFL's Monarch failures is to beat the Wasp dead horse some more than maybe you're dumber than I thought.  To those of us who have nothing invested in either project you look like a fool pointing your finger at some community pseudo-open source project as your excuse as to why it's okay the horse you backed is failing yet again.

Just so we're clear:  I don't give a shit about Bicknellski's WASP project.  I did not ask about Bicknellski's WASP project, I asked about BFL's Monarch.  Don't deflect, where is the product?  Show me the successes of the company you're rooting for.  

  

[bcp19]

Are you ingnorant or just plain stupid?  I did answer his question, I told him my Monarch was in the same place his WASP and HIVE are ATM.  I still bet I have my hands on a Monarch before I do on a WASP.

That's not an answer, that's a deflection.  So BFL's Monarch is still in the design phase?  The same phase where the Wasp people haven't taken any money?  The one where they were going to ship the "bullet run" cards in November? That's where you claim the Monarch's are?

I should hope you'll have your hands on a Monarch before a WASP considering they (Monarch) were supposed to be delivered months ago, that you and a bunch of other idiots found it viable to give BFL millions of dollars for R&D/NRE based on more of J. Zerlan's bullshit hopes, dreams, and expectations.  I absolutely expect that a bunch of people claiming to be "industry leaders" with millions in their budget to outperform a community driven project. 

If your only defence to BFL's Monarch failures is to beat the Wasp dead horse some more than maybe you're dumber than I thought.  To those of us who have nothing invested in either project you look like a fool pointing your finger at some community pseudo-open source project as your excuse as to why it's okay the horse you backed is failing yet again.

Just so we're clear:  I don't give a shit about Bicknellski's WASP project.  I did not ask about Bicknellski's WASP project, I asked about BFL's Monarch.  Don't deflect, where is the product?  Show me the successes of the company you're rooting for.  

  

1) Never rooted/cheered/whatever the company.  I tell trolls they are stupid, when they ARE stupid, but I'm not a cheerleader.
2) Since you DON'T have an order, why do YOU care?

Now, so as to 'not deflect':

1) The wafers are at the slicing facility and should be headed to the grading facility soon.  Considering all the pictures of prototypes, I'm thinking they have a board ready to go.
2) I would guess grading takes a week or so, so I'm thinking they'll have some to send to the company that will populate the boards.
3) From there I'd estimate it's a hop, ship and a jump to production.

So, "Where's *MY* Monarch?" , it's out there and will be ready soon.  I'll get it when I get it and not a moment sooner.

[dropt]

1) Never rooted/cheered/whatever the company.  I tell trolls they are stupid, when they ARE stupid, but I'm not a cheerleader.

No, you just parade around at BFL's defence whenever an opportunity presents itself.

2) Since you DON'T have an order, why do YOU care?

I'm a miner, have been for over 2 years now.  I shouldn't have to point out why I care what each and every manufacturer is up to and whether they are meeting their projections or not.

Now, so as to 'not deflect':

1) The wafers are at the slicing facility and should be headed to the grading facility soon.  Considering all the pictures of prototypes, I'm thinking they have a board ready to go.
2) I would guess grading takes a week or so, so I'm thinking they'll have some to send to the company that will populate the boards.
3) From there I'd estimate it's a hop, ship and a jump to production.

So, "Where's *MY* Monarch?" , it's out there and will be ready soon.  I'll get it when I get it and not a moment sooner.

Finally, a half decent response.  Thanks.  Any thoughts/input on why we've not heard anything from BFL after having received/posted their wire bonded Silicon?

[Bicknellski]

Dropt... I appreciate you didn't ask about the Wasp Hive considering the topic was Bitcoin Miners Sue BUTTERFLY Labs.

---

He won't be getting anything in February or March that is a certainty given his spot in line. If he does obviously his steadfast support in these forums is his payment for a beta version of a slapped together and untested Monarch or maybe he will get a lab version that never leaves the bench ala Luke Jr. Good luck I am pretty confident I will be reaping rewards from our design well before he mines a single Satoshi. There is a significant difference between his getting it when you get it and my insight into when we are going to have a development board up and hashing. Let us just say we started later and we will ride a much better design wave vs. a one off loser like the Monarch that was and still is over priced and will unlikely return anything other than heartache to anyone that ordered one expecting October delivery.

My guess Late Q3 before the majority are "shipped". Get ready BFL more lawsuits to come. For someone so adamant this is a great product he only "bought" a single 300 Gh/s Black Friday special does that sound like a real supportive fanboy BFL customer there? Guess he knows they won't make a dime unless he flips it on Ebay like Josh told some irate customers to do when they didn't get the super discount when sales started lagging bad.

[bcp19]

Dropt... I appreciate you didn't ask about the Wasp Hive considering the topic was Bitcoin Miners Sue BUTTERFLY Labs.

---

He won't be getting anything in February or March that is a certainty given his spot in line. If he does obviously his steadfast support in these forums is his payment for a beta version of a slapped together and untested Monarch or maybe he will get a lab version that never leaves the bench ala Luke Jr. Good luck I am pretty confident I will be reaping rewards from our design well before he mines a single Satoshi. There is a significant difference between his getting it when you get it and my insight into when we are going to have a development board up and hashing. Let us just say we started later and we will ride a much better design wave vs. a one off loser like the Monarch that was and still is over priced and will unlikely return anything other than heartache to anyone that ordered one expecting October delivery.

My guess Late Q3 before the majority are "shipped". Get ready BFL more lawsuits to come. For someone so adamant this is a great product he only "bought" a single 300 Gh/s Black Friday special does that sounds like a real supportive fanboy BFL customer there? Guess he knows they won't make a dime unless he flips it on Ebay like Josh told some irate customers to do when they didn't get the super discount when sales started lagging bad.

Hey Bick, show me these posts of mine where I am claiming this is a "great product".  It's sad that you have to resort to putting false words into peoples mouths.  I took you up on a wager you profferred on these forums, to whit: Show you proof of a Monarch purchase and you would buy $2800 in BTC and see who was ahead in 3 months time.  I showed you proof I purchased on Black Friday and you bought $160 of Friecoin instead of $2800 of BTC and crowed over your great investment.

Here it is, Feb 3rd, the coin you bragged had hit $.23 has dropped to ~$.048 and you refuse to comment on it.  *IF* you had bought BTC as you stated you would, you'd be holding 2.03BTC, the same as I used to purchase my Monarch, and it'd only be worth ~$1800 today.  I can understand your not wanting to talk about your losses, you have a reputation to uphold.

[Bicknellski]

Yawn.

You'll get it when you get it.

[sid7039]

definition of the top producer:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl

[slicko]

achtung baby, the 18th is in .....   2 weeks !!!!

Taunts?

That is how he replies?

Lawsuit thoughts?

Monarch 4 months late thoughts?


Crickets yet again.

I'll be sure to be back in the BFL Monarch Order thread on 18 February when my deadline is for checking in on how much he and others have mined so far on their Monarchs.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=352448.msg3772046#msg3772046
 
My guess come February 18th he will have mined exactly 0 BTC. He will be waiting until March, April possibly May or later for a unit. At this point I am pretty happy he has no clue how to buy miners with at least a hope in hell of making it to market at a reasonable price and that are NOT chicken wired together and require you put it in a snowbank to get it working again or shipped with bottom of the barrel cheap and dangerous Chinese knock off PSU's that have almost burned down a house or nearly electrocuted a few people.

This guy like others is a paid shill for BFL and that is why he is on ignore with the rest of the liars that still support BFL. It is obvious to most the game they play is simply to deny deny deny when the proof is everywhere that they everyone of them lacks the basic ethics that are standard to most human beings. What takes REAL balls and REAL courage is to tell the truth and not be BOUGHT by BFL. Being a liar is pretty easy and the way of a coward or a sociopath I wonder which one he is?

[bburrell]

I purchased 40 "chip credits" for Butterfly Labs in hopes that I would be able to use it with the company. I was not aware of it's restrictions until after I had already purchased the credits. Namely, these are specific to ordering ASIC chips that are not being produced.

Part of the reason I bought them was that I was enthusiastic about the company's role in the bitcoin community. Since then my hopes have diminished.

The company soon 'vanished' all trace of there own manifested virtual currency with no explanation on the decision. One starts to question the sincerity of a company producing virtual currency generating machines if they cannot honor one they have direct control over.

Through the entire experience I learned two important things:
1. I am an idiot.
2. Do not trust company's on faith.

In addition, there "pre-release" products are only explained that "others do it too", and yet I have seen many others that do not simply hold onto money for months as a reason not to produce a product. I also feel there product is of poor quality due to highly variant hash rates. It is publically not recommended to use them on p2pool due to there high latency (slow network communication).

I am posting this in hopes that the following will prevent at least $100 from being spent on products from this company. At that point I will consider this a closed case. I have since purchased bitcoin equipment after first researching it's pros and cons, and feel confident that I am making the right decision in boycotting the company.

Cheers.

[cdog]

bfl will declare bankruptcy and dissolve before the end of 2014

[Flying Hellfish]

Back on topic, another write up.  More people calling up this lawyer.  BFL is about to be taught a lesson in how retail operations work in the real world and I can't wait to laugh my ass off at them.

Hey Josh LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of fucking scammers!  You better pray to everything you know and love you win this case or that shit sack of a company you work for is going to be gone!!!!!!!!!!!  If enough of these go through the authorities will have no choice but to do their own criminal investigations.  This has the potential to get real good.

This part was special:
“I think it’s pretty disingenuous to say it’s [Meissner’s] fault,” he told Ars. “If he had never e-mailed, what were they going to do? Were they the kind of people that were going to keep $63,000? It’s funny, the blame-shifting game they’re playing. I find it distasteful, the lack of responsibility.”

Funniest part is the answer to the question is absofuckinglutely YES of course they would have LOLOLOLOLOL.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/

All of this is my opinion though!

[brooklynite]

The first sentence of the article is wrong. I stopped reading right there.

what do you mean ?(

"A local company considered to be one of the top producers of Bitcoin mining equipment is headed to court."

If the first sentence is BS, how can one trust anything else the article says?

They shipped 45000 mining units and single handedly killed their own equipment after they sold them by shipping even more and exploding the difficulty.

Difficulty is a vicious cycle and must be avoided by switching to altcoins. A serious flaw Satoshi didnt anticipate or invested in.

[torusJKL]

How come they miscalculated their development time again. It being their 3rd generation miner I would have expected better.
Maybe it's their business model.

It's a good thing I didn't order from them again.

[Bicknellski]

How come they miscalculated their development time again. It being their 3rd generation miner I would have expected better.
Maybe it's their business model.

It's a good thing I didn't order from them again.

At this point it isn't miscalculation what it really is, is fraud.

His lawsuit, filed in December 2013, accuses BFL of breach of contract, fraud, and negligent representation.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/

http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdf

https://ia600702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.docket.html

But Flynn, Meissner’s lawyer, finds this explanation baffling.

“I think it’s pretty disingenuous to say it’s [Meissner’s] fault,” he told Ars. “If he had never e-mailed, what were they going to do? Were they the kind of people that were going to keep $63,000? It’s funny, the blame-shifting game they’re playing. I find it distasteful, the lack of responsibility.”

Comment Section below the ARS Article puts it in perspective:

shawnce  Ars Scholae Palatinae about an hour ago
As others have said for a while...

Why build these things and sell them to others until such time as they are no longer net profitable for you to operate (factoring in the sale price)?

Lets see... build them, mine with them until closer to being outdated, and then sell/ship them.. oh I know... even better "sell" them (aka collect money), build them, mine with them until closer to being outdated, then finally ship it.

up ( +1 | +1 / 0 ) down 988 posts | registered Jan 17, 2001

[Flying Hellfish]

How come they miscalculated their development time again. It being their 3rd generation miner I would have expected better.
Maybe it's their business model.

It's a good thing I didn't order from them again.

At this point it isn't miscalculation what it really is, is fraud.

His lawsuit, filed in December 2013, accuses BFL of breach of contract, fraud, and negligent representation.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/02/new-lawsuit-against-bitcoin-miner-manufacturer-alleges-fraud-negligence/

http://ia700702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.2.0.pdf

https://ia600702.us.archive.org/13/items/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395/gov.uscourts.ksd.95395.docket.html

SOOOOOOOOOO much pure win in that lawsuit, it will be funny to laugh at BFL and there fanboys.  Interesting how the lawyers cites all those FTC rules some of us have been going on about for the last year and a bit. 

Good fucking bye and good fucking riddance you scum bags now it's time for you to understand what the real world thinks of your illegal business practice and your ignorant attitude.  You are going to get a well deserved lesson in reality that I suspect a lot of people will be happy to see.

All my opinion.

[krampus]

Where is that Monarch you ordered?

"The focus is on customer satisfaction with BF Labs and our products," the company said in a statement through its attorney, Jim Humphrey of Polsinelli PC. "And we are disappointed in the filing of the lawsuit. We are taking this issue very seriously, and once we were notified of the lawsuit, we took steps to defend our interests, and we will continue to do so vigorously as we dispute the claims"

Laughable.

Appears to be in the same place as your December WASp rollout.

Hanging out on Neptune, no doubt.

(This is not meant to be a dig at any one particular ASIC company or in support of another ASIC company -- just pointing out how difficult the production of cutting-edge ASICs is, and that the development cycle is at this point longer than the useful lifespan of any given generation of hardware).