FLIPPOKER IS CLOSING!

[FUR11]

I guess the website needs a fix on multiplier of winnings.
Random multiplier will NOT help the user.
Multiplier should be like something that equiparate to the difficulty of the hand to be won against another, not random. I'm like... going to say, what happens if in case i get AA and my opponent gets 72 the multiplier would be like 1.7(just an example) I would bet like the max because I know I'm pretty happy to bet "all i got" to win a so easy hand.
Meanwhile 2 hands that are similars... like Q7 and K8 should be like 1.2, i tried it and im like ok, if i win i win almost nothing... 1.05 for example.
I'm not an expert on percentage of winnings, but at least put real %

Thank's for taking your time.

My vision about this were to give the users completely random odds and hands.. that you could wake up with 72 vs AA with 2.5x or vice versa AA vs 72 with 2.5x for you. That it could come some oppurtunity's where you really need to take a risk or you pass the hand and get to the next one.
Perhaps some of the multiplier values is "to low" too.. you can get a multiplier high as 3x if your lucky. But I will look into this when the multiplier calculates depending on the pre-flop and what that would mean for the site.

It's been over 12 hours and you still haven't replied to me.

What is the house edge %? 

How is the game provably fair?

A day and a half now.  Still no answers?  Clearly it can't still be "too late" for a decent response?

What is the house edge%?

How is the game provably fair?

Why wouldn't you answer those questions when I asked them initially?

[FlipPoker]

I guess the website needs a fix on multiplier of winnings.
Random multiplier will NOT help the user.
Multiplier should be like something that equiparate to the difficulty of the hand to be won against another, not random. I'm like... going to say, what happens if in case i get AA and my opponent gets 72 the multiplier would be like 1.7(just an example) I would bet like the max because I know I'm pretty happy to bet "all i got" to win a so easy hand.
Meanwhile 2 hands that are similars... like Q7 and K8 should be like 1.2, i tried it and im like ok, if i win i win almost nothing... 1.05 for example.
I'm not an expert on percentage of winnings, but at least put real %

Thank's for taking your time.

My vision about this were to give the users completely random odds and hands.. that you could wake up with 72 vs AA with 2.5x or vice versa AA vs 72 with 2.5x for you. That it could come some oppurtunity's where you really need to take a risk or you pass the hand and get to the next one.
Perhaps some of the multiplier values is "to low" too.. you can get a multiplier high as 3x if your lucky. But I will look into this when the multiplier calculates depending on the pre-flop and what that would mean for the site.

It's been over 12 hours and you still haven't replied to me.

What is the house edge %?  

How is the game provably fair?

Hi there.. sorry for the delay but I have been away over the weekend.
I will try to answer your questions right now, I hope that you follow along.

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
    rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
    rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Card generation
This may be a little more advanced, but I will try to explain it as good as I can.

card_deck = ['As', '2s', '3s', '4s', ....]

player_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card1);
player_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card2);

opponent_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card1);
opponent_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card2);

tableCard_1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, tableCard_1 );
...and so on...

This above is the process to generate the players/opponent and table cards.

var player_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([player_card1, player_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

var opponent_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([opponent_card1, opponent_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

win = FALSE
IF player_calc > oppontent_calc
    win = TRUE

This above is the part where the winner is decided. PokerEvulator is an library you can find here: https://github.com/chenosaurus/poker-evaluator

Then there is this encrypted SHA1-hash that is shown at the start of a game.

Plain text: 2014-02-02 21:40:12 (9h, 5h | 5c, Kh, As, 7s, 2s | Th, 4c)
SHA1-hash: eab57f2931b1ea89c0a32ecef399146bcd359e78

The encryption is using this function: http://pastebin.com/JYBGv1mV

I hope that you got any programming knowledge, otherwise it's really hard to explain how this works.

But we're going to rewrite this whole process, some new features are coming up.
We're going to remove the "random multiplier" and generate an multiplier that depends on your holding and the opponent holding. Also we're going to remove the bet-limit so you can bet whatever amount you want.
Another feature we're going to implement is an "Faucet" function where you can earn free bitcoins to play with once an hour or so (not really decied what the range will be yet).
We're also going to rewrite the whole "charge fee" part of the system. There is going to be an "house edge" type of fee charging instead.

[FUR11]

Hi there.. sorry for the delay but I have been away over the weekend.
I will try to answer your questions right now, I hope that you follow along.

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
    rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
    rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Card generation
This may be a little more advanced, but I will try to explain is as good as I can.

card_deck = ['As', '2s', '3s', '4s', ....]

player_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card1);
player_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card2);

opponent_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card1);
opponent_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card2);

tableCard_1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_item(card_deck, tableCard_1 );
...and so on...

This above is the process to generate the players/opponent and table cards.

var player_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([player_card1, player_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

var opponent_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([opponent_card1, opponent_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

win = FALSE
IF player_calc > oppontent_calc
    win = TRUE

This above is the part where the winner is decided. PokerEvulator is an library you can find here: https://github.com/chenosaurus/poker-evaluator

Then there is this encrypted SHA1-hash that is shown at the start of a game.

Plain text: 2014-02-02 21:40:12 (9h, 5h | 5c, Kh, As, 7s, 2s | Th, 4c)
SHA1-hash: eab57f2931b1ea89c0a32ecef399146bcd359e78

The encryption is using this function: http://pastebin.com/JYBGv1mV

I hope that you got any programming knowledge, otherwise it's really hard to explain how this works.

But we're going to rewrite this whole process, some new features are coming up.
We're going to remove the "random multiplier" and generate an multiplier that depends on your holding and the opponent holding. Also we're going to remove the bet-limit so you can bet whatever amount you want.
Another feature we're going to implement is an "Faucet" function where you can earn free bitcoins to play with once an hour or so (not really decied what the range will be yet).
We're also going to rewrite the whole "charge fee" part of the system. There is going to be an "house edge" type of fee charging instead.

Thanks for posting that.  I have zero programming knowledge, but hopefully someone more intelligent then myself can look over that and verify it.

It's a little odd that you could do all of that coding but were confused with my simple equity calculations.  I also didn't see you answering my question about house edge.  What is it?  In the two hands I posted days ago, wouldn't you agree that the house edge was 30% and 19%? 

[FlipPoker]

Hi there.. sorry for the delay but I have been away over the weekend.
I will try to answer your questions right now, I hope that you follow along.

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
    rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
    rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Card generation
This may be a little more advanced, but I will try to explain is as good as I can.

card_deck = ['As', '2s', '3s', '4s', ....]

player_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card1);
player_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, player_card2);

opponent_card1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card1);
opponent_card2 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_card(card_deck, opponent_card2);

tableCard_1 = card_deck[Math.floor(Math.random() * card_deck.length)];
remove_item(card_deck, tableCard_1 );
...and so on...

This above is the process to generate the players/opponent and table cards.

var player_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([player_card1, player_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

var opponent_calc = PokerEvaluator.evalHand([opponent_card1, opponent_card2, tableCard_1, tableCard_2, tableCard_3, tableCard_4, tableCard_5])

win = FALSE
IF player_calc > oppontent_calc
    win = TRUE

This above is the part where the winner is decided. PokerEvulator is an library you can find here: https://github.com/chenosaurus/poker-evaluator

Then there is this encrypted SHA1-hash that is shown at the start of a game.

Plain text: 2014-02-02 21:40:12 (9h, 5h | 5c, Kh, As, 7s, 2s | Th, 4c)
SHA1-hash: eab57f2931b1ea89c0a32ecef399146bcd359e78

The encryption is using this function: http://pastebin.com/JYBGv1mV

I hope that you got any programming knowledge, otherwise it's really hard to explain how this works.

But we're going to rewrite this whole process, some new features are coming up.
We're going to remove the "random multiplier" and generate an multiplier that depends on your holding and the opponent holding. Also we're going to remove the bet-limit so you can bet whatever amount you want.
Another feature we're going to implement is an "Faucet" function where you can earn free bitcoins to play with once an hour or so (not really decied what the range will be yet).
We're also going to rewrite the whole "charge fee" part of the system. There is going to be an "house edge" type of fee charging instead.

Thanks for posting that.  I have zero programming knowledge, but hopefully someone more intelligent then myself can look over that and verify it.

It's a little odd that you could do all of that coding but were confused with my simple equity calculations.  I also didn't see you answering my question about house edge.  What is it?  In the two hands I posted days ago, wouldn't you agree that the house edge was 30% and 19%? 

No, it's not.. as I explianed earlier the fee is 1% of every "winning hand". Also that we charge 1% of the return you get from your winnings. So if you bet 0.01 BTC on a 1.5x multiplier your return/profit will be 0.005 BTC.
These 0.005 BTC are we charging with a 1% fee.. so you actually only get 0.00495 BTC in return because 0.00005 BTC is the fee that has been drawn from your winnings.

[FUR11]

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
    rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
    rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Ok, so I guess it's not really hardcore programming, seems fairly straightforward so let's see if I have this correct.

You randomize a number between 1 and 10.

If the number is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 (80% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 50, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier?  So 80% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 1.5?  

If the number is 9 or 10 (20% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 200, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier?  So 20% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 3?

So knowing that, can't we get the average multiplier?  80% of the time it's an average of 1.275.  20% of the time, it's an average of 2.025.  That means that, on average, the multiplier will be 1.425.  Which means that you will be risking .0001 to win .0000425?  Which means that on ALL hand that you have a 70% chance to win on or under (which is a VAST majority of poker hands preflop), you are losing money.  It seems like the house edge on this would be MASSIVE, no?

[FUR11]

No, it's not.. as I explianed earlier the fee is 1% of every "winning hand". Also that we charge 1% of the return you get from your winnings. So if you bet 0.01 BTC on a 1.5x multiplier your return/profit will be 0.005 BTC.
These 0.005 BTC are we charging with a 1% fee.. so you actually only get 0.00495 BTC in return because 0.00005 BTC is the fee that has been drawn from your winnings.

But the game doesn't pay out evenly 100%.

As I posted above, the player is going to be losing money more often then they will be winning money.  When the player loses money, that money goes to the house.  That is the EDGE that the HOUSE has.  In most games that edge is 1%, meaning if the player risks 1 they expect to get back .99.  As I showed, in those hands, risking 1 would expect to get back .70 and .81.  Because the way that you work the multiplier makes it so that most hands are losing hands (equity wise).  Right?

[FlipPoker]

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
    rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
    rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Ok, so I guess it's not really hardcore programming, seems fairly straightforward so let's see if I have this correct.

You randomize a number between 1 and 10.

If the number is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 (80% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 50, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier?  So 80% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 1.5?  

If the number is 9 or 10 (20% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 200, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier?  So 20% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 3?

So knowing that, can't we get the average multiplier?  80% of the time it's an average of 1.275.  20% of the time, it's an average of 2.025.  That means that, on average, the multiplier will be 1.425.  Which means that you will be risking .0001 to win .0000425?  Which means that on ALL hand that you have a 70% chance to win on or under (which is a VAST majority of poker hands preflop), you are losing money.  It seems like the house edge on this would be MASSIVE, no?

Yes, you're totally right.

That's why I mentioned in that post that we're going to rewrite whole this process. So it's not randomized anymore.. that the multipliers will be calculated due what cards you and the opponent is holding. I'm not proud of how the multiplier function work right now either.

[FUR11]

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
    rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
    rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Ok, so I guess it's not really hardcore programming, seems fairly straightforward so let's see if I have this correct.

You randomize a number between 1 and 10.

If the number is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 (80% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 50, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier?  So 80% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 1.5?  

If the number is 9 or 10 (20% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 200, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier?  So 20% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 3?

So knowing that, can't we get the average multiplier?  80% of the time it's an average of 1.275.  20% of the time, it's an average of 2.025.  That means that, on average, the multiplier will be 1.425.  Which means that you will be risking .0001 to win .0000425?  Which means that on ALL hand that you have a 70% chance to win on or under (which is a VAST majority of poker hands preflop), you are losing money.  It seems like the house edge on this would be MASSIVE, no?

Yes, you're totally right.

That's why I mentioned in that post that we're going to rewrite whole this process. So it's not randomized anymore.. that the multipliers will be calculated due what cards you and the opponent is holding. I'm not proud of how the multiplier function work right now either.

So are you admitting that the game is unfair to the player and that the house edge is far higher then the 1% you claimed it was?

[FlipPoker]

Multiplier
The calculation function works like this:

nr = rand(1 - 10)
IF nr > 8
    rnum = rand(5 - 200)
ELSE
    rnum = rand(5 - 50)

multiplier = (rnum / 100) + 1
round multiplier to 2 decimals.

Ok, so I guess it's not really hardcore programming, seems fairly straightforward so let's see if I have this correct.

You randomize a number between 1 and 10.

If the number is 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 or 8 (80% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 50, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier?  So 80% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 1.5?  

If the number is 9 or 10 (20% of the time), you randomize a number between 5 and 200, divide that number by 100, and then add 1 to it and that is the multiplier?  So 20% of the time, the multiplier is between 1.05 and 3?

So knowing that, can't we get the average multiplier?  80% of the time it's an average of 1.275.  20% of the time, it's an average of 2.025.  That means that, on average, the multiplier will be 1.425.  Which means that you will be risking .0001 to win .0000425?  Which means that on ALL hand that you have a 70% chance to win on or under (which is a VAST majority of poker hands preflop), you are losing money.  It seems like the house edge on this would be MASSIVE, no?

Yes, you're totally right.

That's why I mentioned in that post that we're going to rewrite whole this process. So it's not randomized anymore.. that the multipliers will be calculated due what cards you and the opponent is holding. I'm not proud of how the multiplier function work right now either.

So are you admitting that the game is unfair to the player and that the house edge is far higher then the 1% you claimed it was?

The low probability of a good multiplier hasn't something to do with the "house edge". It's just a low multiplier.. it sounds like you mean: "If you click on the fold button you lose 0.00005 BTC and you refer that as a fee"?
The amount that players lost is supposed to cover the players who actually are winning. Only because you lost some cash at our site doesn't mean that these money drops down into our pockets.
We're only see the "fee's" that we charge as the sites "profit".

[FUR11]

That's highly illogical.  The low probability of a good multiplier directly correlates to the house edge.  BECAUSE IT IS THE EDGE THAT IS RETAINED BY THE HOUSE!

I'm not saying I lose money so I'm salty, I'm saying that the math is showing that EVERYONE will lose money and at a rate that is far far higher then you claimed it was.

Again, I will ask you:  what is the house edge?  You MUST know it, because if it wasn't in your favor (for example, if the multiplier was coded in a way that you were losing money) you wouldn't put it up.  Right?  You wouldn't put a game up for real btc if it was losing you money, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money, you must know at what rate it is making you money.  You claimed that rate was 1%, but then you said that you didn't know what "house edge" meant.  So I am asking you yet again...what is the house edge?

[FlipPoker]

That's highly illogical.  The low probability of a good multiplier directly correlates to the house edge.  BECAUSE IT IS THE EDGE THAT IS RETAINED BY THE HOUSE!

I'm not saying I lose money so I'm salty, I'm saying that the math is showing that EVERYONE will lose money and at a rate that is far far higher then you claimed it was.

Again, I will ask you:  what is the house edge?  You MUST know it, because if it wasn't in your favor (for example, if the multiplier was coded in a way that you were losing money) you wouldn't put it up.  Right?  You wouldn't put a game up for real btc if it was losing you money, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money, you must know at what rate it is making you money.  You claimed that rate was 1%, but then you said that you didn't know what "house edge" meant.  So I am asking you yet again...what is the house edge?

This is almost impossible to actually calculate.. but I did a try.

I benchmarked 11.371 played games.
Players won: 5.455 games.
Opponent won: 5.916 games.

After some calculations I got that the house edge were 4,05%.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

[FUR11]

That's highly illogical.  The low probability of a good multiplier directly correlates to the house edge.  BECAUSE IT IS THE EDGE THAT IS RETAINED BY THE HOUSE!

I'm not saying I lose money so I'm salty, I'm saying that the math is showing that EVERYONE will lose money and at a rate that is far far higher then you claimed it was.

Again, I will ask you:  what is the house edge?  You MUST know it, because if it wasn't in your favor (for example, if the multiplier was coded in a way that you were losing money) you wouldn't put it up.  Right?  You wouldn't put a game up for real btc if it was losing you money, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money, you must know at what rate it is making you money.  You claimed that rate was 1%, but then you said that you didn't know what "house edge" meant.  So I am asking you yet again...what is the house edge?

This is almost impossible to actually calculate.. but I did a try.

I benchmarked 11.371 played games.
Players won: 5.455 games.
Opponent won: 5.916 games.

After some calculations I got that the house edge were 4,05%.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

It's not impossible to calculate, it's basic math.  If the house edge is 4%, then a player who bets 1 should expect to recieve back .96.  Is this accurate?  Again, if the site was programmed in a way that you were losing money (EV wise) it wouldn't be live, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money (EV wise), you must know how much money it is projected to make.

[FlipPoker]

That's highly illogical.  The low probability of a good multiplier directly correlates to the house edge.  BECAUSE IT IS THE EDGE THAT IS RETAINED BY THE HOUSE!

I'm not saying I lose money so I'm salty, I'm saying that the math is showing that EVERYONE will lose money and at a rate that is far far higher then you claimed it was.

Again, I will ask you:  what is the house edge?  You MUST know it, because if it wasn't in your favor (for example, if the multiplier was coded in a way that you were losing money) you wouldn't put it up.  Right?  You wouldn't put a game up for real btc if it was losing you money, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money, you must know at what rate it is making you money.  You claimed that rate was 1%, but then you said that you didn't know what "house edge" meant.  So I am asking you yet again...what is the house edge?

This is almost impossible to actually calculate.. but I did a try.

I benchmarked 11.371 played games.
Players won: 5.455 games.
Opponent won: 5.916 games.

After some calculations I got that the house edge were 4,05%.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

It's not impossible to calculate, it's basic math.  If the house edge is 4%, then a player who bets 1 should expect to recieve back .96.  Is this accurate?  Again, if the site was programmed in a way that you were losing money (EV wise) it wouldn't be live, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money (EV wise), you must know how much money it is projected to make.

Well.. if you can provide me with a "mathematical formula" to calculate which hands who beat another hand you can post it here.. but it doesn't exist one!
For example if you want to calculate the "percent" between the starting hands A7 vs T9 you need to benchmark like 100.000 hands of that type to get a "feeling" about what the "chanses" are for A7 to beat T9.

And I don't really follow you about the "bets 1 should expect to receive back .96". So you mean if you bet 1 BTC on whatever multiplier there is you should get a 0.96 BTC return if you win? That doesn't add up..
Just take a look at http://satoshiaces.com/ for an example. If you bet 0.00000100 BTC at a 1.1x you will only get a profit of 0.00000009 BTC (after the fee's I suppose). That's exactly the same "method" I use on this site.

[FUR11]

That's highly illogical.  The low probability of a good multiplier directly correlates to the house edge.  BECAUSE IT IS THE EDGE THAT IS RETAINED BY THE HOUSE!

I'm not saying I lose money so I'm salty, I'm saying that the math is showing that EVERYONE will lose money and at a rate that is far far higher then you claimed it was.

Again, I will ask you:  what is the house edge?  You MUST know it, because if it wasn't in your favor (for example, if the multiplier was coded in a way that you were losing money) you wouldn't put it up.  Right?  You wouldn't put a game up for real btc if it was losing you money, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money, you must know at what rate it is making you money.  You claimed that rate was 1%, but then you said that you didn't know what "house edge" meant.  So I am asking you yet again...what is the house edge?

This is almost impossible to actually calculate.. but I did a try.

I benchmarked 11.371 played games.
Players won: 5.455 games.
Opponent won: 5.916 games.

After some calculations I got that the house edge were 4,05%.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

It's not impossible to calculate, it's basic math.  If the house edge is 4%, then a player who bets 1 should expect to recieve back .96.  Is this accurate?  Again, if the site was programmed in a way that you were losing money (EV wise) it wouldn't be live, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money (EV wise), you must know how much money it is projected to make.

Well.. if you can provide me with a "mathematical formula" to calculate which hands who beat another hand you can post it here.. but it doesn't exist one!
For example if you want to calculate the "percent" between the starting hands A7 vs T9 you need to benchmark like 100.000 hands of that type to get a "feeling" about what the "chanses" are for A7 to beat T9.

And I don't really follow you about the "bets 1 should expect to receive back .96". So you mean if you bet 1 BTC on whatever multiplier there is you should get a 0.96 BTC return if you win? That doesn't add up..
Just take a look at http://satoshiaces.com/ for an example. If you bet 0.00000100 BTC at a 1.1x you will only get a profit of 0.00000009 BTC (after the fee's I suppose). That's exactly the same "method" I use on this site.

...what?

A7 vs T9 is 55.66%/44.03% in favor of A7 with a .31% to tie (which you grade as a loss).  Are you saying that you don't understand poker odds?

So, here are the things that you don't understand:  poker odds; house edge; basic math. 

AGAIN I must ask:  what is the house edge on your website?  I know that you claim you don't know (which is insane since if you actually didn't know, you could have it programmed in a way that loses you money...which it clearly doesn't), so maybe find someone to do the math for you.  It is VERY irresponsible for you to be accepting deposits and taking real btc bets when you can't answer and in fact are providing FALSE answers to basic questions about your site.  At best you are operating under extreme neglect. 

[FlipPoker]

That's highly illogical.  The low probability of a good multiplier directly correlates to the house edge.  BECAUSE IT IS THE EDGE THAT IS RETAINED BY THE HOUSE!

I'm not saying I lose money so I'm salty, I'm saying that the math is showing that EVERYONE will lose money and at a rate that is far far higher then you claimed it was.

Again, I will ask you:  what is the house edge?  You MUST know it, because if it wasn't in your favor (for example, if the multiplier was coded in a way that you were losing money) you wouldn't put it up.  Right?  You wouldn't put a game up for real btc if it was losing you money, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money, you must know at what rate it is making you money.  You claimed that rate was 1%, but then you said that you didn't know what "house edge" meant.  So I am asking you yet again...what is the house edge?

This is almost impossible to actually calculate.. but I did a try.

I benchmarked 11.371 played games.
Players won: 5.455 games.
Opponent won: 5.916 games.

After some calculations I got that the house edge were 4,05%.

Correct me if I'm wrong please.

It's not impossible to calculate, it's basic math.  If the house edge is 4%, then a player who bets 1 should expect to recieve back .96.  Is this accurate?  Again, if the site was programmed in a way that you were losing money (EV wise) it wouldn't be live, right?  So since you know that it isn't losing you money (EV wise), you must know how much money it is projected to make.

Well.. if you can provide me with a "mathematical formula" to calculate which hands who beat another hand you can post it here.. but it doesn't exist one!
For example if you want to calculate the "percent" between the starting hands A7 vs T9 you need to benchmark like 100.000 hands of that type to get a "feeling" about what the "chanses" are for A7 to beat T9.

And I don't really follow you about the "bets 1 should expect to receive back .96". So you mean if you bet 1 BTC on whatever multiplier there is you should get a 0.96 BTC return if you win? That doesn't add up..
Just take a look at http://satoshiaces.com/ for an example. If you bet 0.00000100 BTC at a 1.1x you will only get a profit of 0.00000009 BTC (after the fee's I suppose). That's exactly the same "method" I use on this site.

...what?

A7 vs T9 is 55.66%/44.03% in favor of A7 with a .31% to tie (which you grade as a loss).  Are you saying that you don't understand poker odds?

So, here are the things that you don't understand:  poker odds; house edge; basic math.  

AGAIN I must ask:  what is the house edge on your website?  I know that you claim you don't know (which is insane since if you actually didn't know, you could have it programmed in a way that loses you money...which it clearly doesn't), so maybe find someone to do the math for you.  It is VERY irresponsible for you to be accepting deposits and taking real btc bets when you can't answer and in fact are providing FALSE answers to basic questions about your site.  At best you are operating under extreme neglect.  

How did you calculate these values? Or did you just use an online odds calculator?..

I have already told you that the "house" got an 4.05% edge.. if the "house wins when it's a tie" didn't exist would result in that the house and the player would both have a 50% chance of winning. Because you never know what cards you or the house will get dealt. Both would have the same advantage.

By the way, I'm really aware of odds/pot-odds/outs and so on when it comes to poker.

[FUR11]

How did you calculate these values? Or did you just use an online odds calculator?..

I have already told you that the "house" got an 4.05% edge.. if the "house wins when it's a tie" didn't exist would result in that the house and the player would both have a 50% chance of winning. Because you never know what cards you or the house will get dealt. Both would have the same advantage.

By the way, I'm really aware of odds/pot-odds/outs and so on when it comes to poker.

Odds are static.  They don't change.  The odds I quoted are the odds of the hand.  If you are "really aware of odds..." you should know this.  Do you know this?

You "already told me" that the house got a 1% edge.  The you posted an incredibly low sample size and said "um I think this means the house has a 4.05% edge".

I'm asking you again.

What is the provably fair house edge % on your site?

This is getting comical.

[FlipPoker]

How did you calculate these values? Or did you just use an online odds calculator?..

I have already told you that the "house" got an 4.05% edge.. if the "house wins when it's a tie" didn't exist would result in that the house and the player would both have a 50% chance of winning. Because you never know what cards you or the house will get dealt. Both would have the same advantage.

By the way, I'm really aware of odds/pot-odds/outs and so on when it comes to poker.

Odds are static.  They don't change.  The odds I quoted are the odds of the hand.  If you are "really aware of odds..." you should know this.  Do you know this?

You "already told me" that the house got a 1% edge.  The you posted an incredibly low sample size and said "um I think this means the house has a 4.05% edge".

I'm asking you again.

What is the provably fair house edge % on your site?

This is getting comical.

Yes, I made an mistake about the "house edge" because I was un-sure what that really was until I did some research about it. The house edge isn't some "static" value you just can set when it comes to this type of game on this site. It's something you need to benchmark to get a grip on, that's exactly what I did. If you would get your money returned if it were a tie the house edge would be 0%.

The edge is the advantage the house has over the players.. and the only advantage the house has over the players at the moment is when a hand got tied.
But if we take the multipliers too for an example.. if your multiplier is for an example 1.25x the edge would be much higher. Because you will risk more than you would win.

[StinkyS4L]

I'd like to give it a try

1NgCbKXV6L1VhiHqw1xfm2CqUFQEToz9qd

[StinkyS4L]

How did you calculate these values? Or did you just use an online odds calculator?..

I have already told you that the "house" got an 4.05% edge.. if the "house wins when it's a tie" didn't exist would result in that the house and the player would both have a 50% chance of winning. Because you never know what cards you or the house will get dealt. Both would have the same advantage.

By the way, I'm really aware of odds/pot-odds/outs and so on when it comes to poker.

Odds are static.  They don't change.  The odds I quoted are the odds of the hand.  If you are "really aware of odds..." you should know this.  Do you know this?

You "already told me" that the house got a 1% edge.  The you posted an incredibly low sample size and said "um I think this means the house has a 4.05% edge".

I'm asking you again.

What is the provably fair house edge % on your site?

This is getting comical.

Yes, I made an mistake about the "house edge" because I was un-sure what that really was until I did some research about it. The house edge isn't some "static" value you just can set when it comes to this type of game on this site. It's something you need to benchmark to get a grip on, that's exactly what I did. If you would get your money returned if it were a tie the house edge would be 0%.

The edge is the advantage the house has over the players.. and the only advantage the house has over the players at the moment is when a hand got tied.
But if we take the multipliers too for an example.. if your multiplier is for an example 1.25x the edge would be much higher. Because you will risk more than you would win.

All that has been calculated at this time is that the "opponent" wins 4% more of the time than the player. If it's truly random then that number can and should fluctuate. Is the opponent the house or am I actually playing a hand against another player?

[bobolini]

hey flippoker said u credityed me but nothing yet
17Y1V86ytQ3uwhK5NJHPHAU7w9oiguV4LW