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Author Topic: What is your answer to "Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme" ?  (Read 6097 times)
gpucoolingmethod (OP)
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February 02, 2014, 04:45:10 PM
 #61

It is a bit of a ponzi scheme though isn't it? When the price rises the early adopters get rich at the expense of the new comers. Those early adopters then get to enslave the rest of us. The coins they bought at a $1 or even less are now worth over $800. They don't even have to spend whole coins anymore. Fractions of a coin can buy you a lot of a person's time. The early adopters are now spending a lot of their coins on bitcoin propaganda because they know that is the best way to increase their wealth.

The coin's goal isnt really to just replace the dollar etc.Otherwise it would be that everyone could replace their currency for it always for same value and mining would be just enough for transactions right?

It shant be called "Ponzi Scheme."
Its a entirely new scheme so just call it the Nakamoto Scheme
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February 02, 2014, 06:07:51 PM
 #62

You are applying it directly to the definition of maybe a wikipedia on pyramid, you take that definition as if it's written in scripture and holy. Bitcoin does not have to be a business model to be a pyramid, no one has to promise payments or services for it to be a pyramid, you couldn't possibly know if Bitcoin is ultimately unsustainable or not. If you for one second took away your biased opinion, and actually read what i wrote earlier you would understand, you are just another cog in the wheel, or should i say block in the pyramid (lol). If it was this easy to conquer the world, because of the lack of IQ points from the masses, i'm going to gladly join the other side and sharpen the axe. Where do i sign up?

No, I do not take that definition as if it is holy. Yet, definitions are important because words are how we interact with other people. If I'm talking about a furry, four legged animal, and you are thinking cat, when I actually mean dog, we are going to have a hard time seeing eye to eye.

We can use investopedia's definition if you wish:

A pyramid scheme is a fraudulent investing plan that has unfortunately cost many people worldwide their hard-earned savings. The concept behind the pyramid scheme is simple and should be easy to identify; however, it is often presented to potential investors in a disguised or slightly altered form. For this reason, it is important to not only understand how pyramid schemes work, but also to be familiar with the many different shapes and sizes they can take.

The Scheme
As its name indicates, the pyramid scheme is structured like a pyramid. It starts with one person - the initial recruiter - who is on top, at the apex of the pyramid. This person recruits a second person, who is required to "invest" $100 which is paid to the initial recruiter. In order to make his or her money back, the new recruit must recruit more people under him or her, each of whom will also have to invest $100. If the recruit gets 10 more people to invest, this person will make $900 with just a $100 investment.

The 10 new people become recruiters and each one is in turn required to enlist an additional 10 people, resulting in a total of 100 more people. Each of those 100 new recruits is also obligated to pay $100 to the person who recruited him or her; recruiters get a profit of all of the money received minus the initial $100 paid to the person who recruited them. The process continues until the base of the pyramid is no longer strong enough to support the upper structure (meaning there are no more recruits).

The differences between that and Bitcoin are glaring. Bitcoin is not an investment, it's a digital currency. Bitcoin is not fraudulent, there is nothing hidden from the users, everything is open and available for everyone to see.

Bitcoins do have an exchange rate, and I can see how an increasing exchange rate would lead some people to think that it's all a scheme to make the early adopters rich, yet it doesn't play out like a pyramid scheme at all. Bitcoins are bought and sold at market value. If you purchase a bitcoin, there is no promise or guarantee that you are going to be able to sell it for more in the future. Many, many people have sold their bitcoins for less than what they paid for them. There is also the scenario where an individual purchases a bitcoin, and never sells it for fiat. They've moved from one type of money to another. They will never receive any fiat from later investors. Bitcoin can and will continue to function even if no new people get involved from this point forward.

Obviously, I can point out these differences until I am blue in the face. We can get deeper and deeper into details, basically wasting a lot of time. It's clear that you are going to ignore these glaring differences and shrug off these fine details because you've already painted the picture in your mind. You are focusing on the aspects of Bitcoin that look like an investment and ignoring the aspects of bitcoin that look like an asset and a value transfer network.

Ultimately, a Ponzi/pyramid scheme is based on a fraudulent investment. Those involved never receive any product or service. Early investors get returns paid out from the investments of later investors.

There is no fraud with Bitcoin. When you buy a bitcoin, you receive a new form of digital currency, which has been proven to function exactly as described in the white paper. I can, right now, send value across the world, using bitcoins (the distributed decentralized currency and the value transfer network) without asking for help from a middleman or permission from an authority. There is an actual use case, which is being used everyday by people around the world.

I'm finished with this thread. It's up to an individual to decide for themselves. You are either stuck in the box or you aren't. I will continue using Bitcoin to improve the way I am able to store and transfer value. The rest of the world can stretch definitions of words until chimpanzees turn into elephants for all I care.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
johnyj
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February 03, 2014, 02:53:19 AM
 #63

All of those traditional wisdom have one thing in common: They use USD as an unit to measure value. This is questionable

In fact, the value of 1 USD can be anything from 0.001 to 10 Bitcoin, when the exchange rate between them fluctuating, there is no way to tell if USD's value is dropping fast or bitcoin's value is rising quickly

People might say that all the other goods' value is relatively stable if purchased using USD, this is also questionable. You can never tell if it is because all these goods' value are dropping together with USD or not. (In fact they should be much cheaper than before, due to much higher production efficiency)

If measured by bitcoins, the improvement of production efficiency will cause all the goods' price to drop, which indicated a healthy development of economy

waqas
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February 03, 2014, 12:01:53 PM
 #64

I would not think the FBI would auction off bitcoins if was a ponzi scheme.
but they are not doin any auction for these bitcoins they are giving in faucets to this community  Cheesy

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February 03, 2014, 04:29:32 PM
 #65

I can not believe what I paid 1000 USD.   Roll Eyes
Just now, I understand, Bitcoin is fog.

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February 03, 2014, 05:17:18 PM
 #66

It's not a ponzi scheme per se, but it can still turn out to be a scam if satoshi wants anything for his 2 million bitcoins.

It's a satoshi scheme.
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February 03, 2014, 05:23:04 PM
 #67

+1
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February 03, 2014, 06:09:41 PM
 #68


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gpucoolingmethod (OP)
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February 03, 2014, 07:11:59 PM
 #69

It's not a ponzi scheme per se, but it can still turn out to be a scam if satoshi wants anything for his 2 million bitcoins.

It's a satoshi scheme.

thats what i thought too.Its a scheme but a new one so lets name after Satoshi (if its real name) just like that one is after Ponzi
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February 03, 2014, 07:18:03 PM
 #70


+1

BTW, OP what is your agenda ?

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GigaCoin
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February 03, 2014, 07:20:55 PM
 #71

i tell people that no body owns or controls Bitcoin, it is not an entity it is completely decentralized so it can't be a ponzi. That explanation usually convinces people from my experience

gpucoolingmethod (OP)
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February 03, 2014, 07:25:53 PM
 #72

i tell people that no body owns or controls Bitcoin, it is not an entity it is completely decentralized so it can't be a ponzi. That explanation usually convinces people from my experience

its niot Ponzi its a Satoshi Nakamoto he got at least 2mil btc!
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February 03, 2014, 08:04:40 PM
 #73

Name any other ponzi scheme or pyramid that survived three crashes? You won't, because for every one of them the first crash is the last crash, as ponzi differs from a breakthrough product in that it has no actual innovation, but pure marketing bullshit. You have to be pretty stupid to say that bitcoin does not bring any innovation to society. So any open, transparent, innovative product that is already working in the real world and does not seem to be crashing no matter how hard dumbasses of various caliber try, can not be any kind of ponzi.

i am satoshi
Holliday
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February 03, 2014, 08:40:22 PM
 #74

It's not a ponzi scheme per se, but it can still turn out to be a scam if satoshi wants anything for his 2 million bitcoins.

It's a satoshi scheme.

Fuck that, Satoshi deserves whatever he gets should he decide to part with his coins. He certainly deserves to be wealthier than say... the inventor of Facebook (which he isn't even close to yet).

Most people put the figure closer to 1 million, btw.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
gpucoolingmethod (OP)
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February 03, 2014, 08:55:24 PM
 #75

what do you mean by "agenda"
gpucoolingmethod (OP)
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February 03, 2014, 08:58:42 PM
 #76

It's not a ponzi scheme per se, but it can still turn out to be a scam if satoshi wants anything for his 2 million bitcoins.

It's a satoshi scheme.

Fuck that, Satoshi deserves whatever he gets should he decide to part with his coins. He certainly deserves to be wealthier than say... the inventor of Facebook (which he isn't even close to yet).

Most people put the figure closer to 1 million, btw.

well bitcoin has potentioally good values but whoever made it could dhave done better than what s/t/he/y did
Holliday
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February 03, 2014, 08:59:58 PM
 #77

It's not a ponzi scheme per se, but it can still turn out to be a scam if satoshi wants anything for his 2 million bitcoins.

It's a satoshi scheme.

Fuck that, Satoshi deserves whatever he gets should he decide to part with his coins. He certainly deserves to be wealthier than say... the inventor of Facebook (which he isn't even close to yet).

Most people put the figure closer to 1 million, btw.

well bitcoin has potentioally good values but whoever made it could dhave done better than what he did

The world is your oyster. Go do it better.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
gpucoolingmethod (OP)
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February 03, 2014, 09:05:35 PM
 #78

It's not a ponzi scheme per se, but it can still turn out to be a scam if satoshi wants anything for his 2 million bitcoins.

It's a satoshi scheme.

Fuck that, Satoshi deserves whatever he gets should he decide to part with his coins. He certainly deserves to be wealthier than say... the inventor of Facebook (which he isn't even close to yet).

Most people put the figure closer to 1 million, btw.

well bitcoin has potentioally good values but whoever made it could dhave done better than what he did

The world is your oyster. Go do it better.

will you help Me?
Holliday
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February 03, 2014, 09:09:20 PM
 #79

It's not a ponzi scheme per se, but it can still turn out to be a scam if satoshi wants anything for his 2 million bitcoins.

It's a satoshi scheme.

Fuck that, Satoshi deserves whatever he gets should he decide to part with his coins. He certainly deserves to be wealthier than say... the inventor of Facebook (which he isn't even close to yet).

Most people put the figure closer to 1 million, btw.

well bitcoin has potentioally good values but whoever made it could dhave done better than what he did

The world is your oyster. Go do it better.

will you help Me?

I'm happy with Bitcoin, but if you show me something that is better, I will help you by adopting it.

If you aren't the sole controller of your private keys, you don't have any bitcoins.
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February 03, 2014, 09:38:36 PM
 #80

The satoshi deserves this and that argument is hogwash.

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