The Largest Bitcoin Scam of Them All?

[buttcoin1]

GLBSE?

http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=252

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[Raoul Duke]

Yup, that sums it up 

[Bitcoin Swami]

If the company is open about its operations I don't see a problem with the GLBSE.  

I mine and payout every day to my shareholders so I"m not holding anything extra.   All of the finances are right there on a spreadsheet.

There are alot of shady companies on there but I think it will get better with time. The glbse is something that can help grow bitcoin its an awesome idea.

The fact that you get paid dividends from the earnings of the company blows the "ponzi scheme" argument out the water. 

[nhodges]

You can't blame the exchange itself for the bad practices and naivete of the corporations that operate within it. Just like the real SE, some companies are solid, some companies are obviously a bad choice to invest in. GLBSE is a valuable and needed service.

Several other points to be made about the post, but chiefly, IBB actually requires drivers license + passport, which some people are finding ridiculous, but that's what it takes to get a loan from them.

[memvola]

GLBSE?

http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=252

Meh, the article doesn't make much sense. For instance, how does a claim that IBB is prone to being scammed makes IBB a scam? And how does that mean that GLBSE is a scam? And how is it a ponzi scheme? That's three steps that don't follow. Pretty retarded.

If you don't know what you are investing in, don't invest in it. That's the only thing that is pure and simple. Everything else is pretty complicated. If you need someone to baby sit you, do not invest in anything. There are enough people losing their shirts on regulated markets. Forex is not a scam, nor a ponzi scheme, but many clueless people are mislead by the advertisements to lose their money in it. I don't claim that investing in a particular company on GLBSE is safe. There will be scammers, there will be failed companies, it's all part of the deal. It doesn't make GLBSE more or less of what it claims to be.

[bitstarter]

Responded further to him below.... ...

[cbeast]

Nice , stupid article  by a user named buttcoin!   anyone listening to him? lol

GLBSE looks interesting. I'll take a better look at it when I have time.

[buttcoin1]

You can't blame the exchange itself for the bad practices and naivete of the corporations that operate within it. Just like the real SE, some companies are solid, some companies are obviously a bad choice to invest in. GLBSE is a valuable and needed service.

Really? It's not the Exchanges role to vet 'companies' that have nothing to offer other than scamming people? Bit Ponzi just slipped under the radar huh?

[bitplane]

BitPonzi isn't dishonest about what it does, I don't see anything wrong with people running gambling / pyramid schemes so long as they're honest about what they're doing.

[nhodges]

You can't blame the exchange itself for the bad practices and naivete of the corporations that operate within it. Just like the real SE, some companies are solid, some companies are obviously a bad choice to invest in. GLBSE is a valuable and needed service.

Really? It's not the Exchanges role to vet 'companies' that have nothing to offer other than scamming people? Bit Ponzi just slipped under the radar huh?

Yes it is, but no one is perfect, not even the SEC. In a capitalist marketplace it's caveat emptor; do your own due diligence. See: Enron.

I am not a current holder of any contracts on GLBSE, but I do see value in Nefario's tool, and have also been watching the Lambert funds closely. For Bitcoin to grow to something real, it needs a securities marketplace.

[teflone]

I currently have invested in all LIF funds, BMMO, and SMM, and IBB of course..

Making coin on all of them, I dont see the issue, its obvious to me the OP has no clue, and is a bitcoin hater.

[teek]

It's gotta start somewhere.. not everything is a scam.  Block Miners for instance, GLBSE: BMMO, is a not a scam.  It may not be a multi-million dollar outfit, but I suspect as we will stick to our word, nothing less nothing more, that other people will as well.  The bad apples will be weeded out more or less.  If you want to see an example of this in action look at pinksheet penny stocks that have reverse merged into shells.  They haven't passed much higher of a criteria than what GLBSE provides.  Hell, all it took them was money to get a listing and it's all legal!

Find a penny stock website that 404's,  if you had a bitcoin for everyone one of those, you'd be rich.   Let's look at GLBSE in 12 months time, I think it's going to be interesting if it is still around.  Happy to be involved now.

teek

[BitVapes]

I agree with what others in this thread have said, there will always be bad apples in every market.  There are  many bogus companies whose penny stocks are traded for USD, even large corporations listed on the major stock exchanges are later revealed to be total frauds.

I wouldn't be interested in listing my company on the GLBSE, but that's because I have no need to sell shares, but other companies should have every right to be able to.  Crypto-anarchy FTW

[tvbcof]

Nice , stupid article  by a user named buttcoin!   anyone listening to him? lol

No kidding.  Next thing you know, he'll be accusing Bruce Wagner of having a record of fraud or something.  What a waste of time to listen to such people.

[johnj]

Nice , stupid article  by a user named buttcoin!   anyone listening to him? lol

No kidding.  Next thing you know, he'll be accusing Bruce Wagner of having a record of fraud or something.  What a waste of time to listen to such people.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

[tvbcof]

Nice , stupid article  by a user named buttcoin!   anyone listening to him? lol

No kidding.  Next thing you know, he'll be accusing Bruce Wagner of having a record of fraud or something.  What a waste of time to listen to such people.

To the guy who PM'd me...er...'thanks'.  Don't worry about being a dick.  I certainly don't.  And I employ sarcasm liberally...

[Nagle]

there will always be bad apples in every market. 

Yes, but when most of them are bad, there might be a problem.

[Xenland]

To the person who wrote that article about glbse here is my response:
Yeah my prices are 20% inflated so wut?

lol more then half of my stuff is still cheaper then popular sites like amazon and newegg



I payed all but a few investors off this month. That is sooner then expect!

[FlipPro]

Lots of FUD in this hit piece.

[Gabi]

This remember me EVE online

The various investments were never scam, never! Well unless the guy take all the money and disappear.

And here it seems the same.... everyone "omg nono it's not a scam, you idiot", until of course they disappear with the bitcoins...

[BubbleBoy]

The main problem I see is that the market does not trade in "securities". It trades in shares issued by people who are only bound by their own will to behave honestly. There's absolutely nothing stopping a "business owner" to liquidate all assets of the "company" and drop out of sight. There's nothing stopping him from issuing one quintillion extra shares. There's nothing forcing him to pay dividends. There is no obligation to financial disclosure, and any published data is not audited by a trustworthy party. There's no way for shareholders to express their voting rights.

So yes, I think "monopoly money" is closer to what GLBSE actually deals in, as opposed to "securities". Companies both love and hate the stock exchange. They like they can raise capital, but they hate when their are forced to disclose truthful financial details and the price drops as a consequence. CEOs hate when their are ousted by angry stockholders. If you take the hate out of the relationship and leave it entirely voluntary for the company to behave what you get is a way for unscrupulous "investors" to obtain free money from less savvy ones.

For web startups I would fix the system so that the stock market (Web-SE) is the owner of any domain name the business uses, and hosts the database and has access to the source code of the site. Also any financial dealings are conducted via wallets administered by Web-SE. This way the business owner is forced to behave and support the majority decisions, including replacing him as CEO and relegating him to a simple owner of stock issued on Web-SE. The stock holders could also democratically decide to take the company "private" and regain control of it's prime assets, the domain, database, source and wallets from Web-SE, and incorporate in some jurisdiction.

[ShadowOfHarbringer]

You can't blame the exchange itself for the bad practices and naivete of the corporations that operate within it. Just like the real SE, some companies are solid, some companies are obviously a bad choice to invest in. GLBSE is a valuable and needed service.

Really? It's not the Exchanges role to vet 'companies' that have nothing to offer other than scamming people? Bit Ponzi just slipped under the radar huh?

No. A honest ponzi scheme is no longer a deception/fraud and is no longer morally negative, as bitplane said below:

BitPonzi isn't dishonest about what it does, I don't see anything wrong with people running gambling / pyramid schemes so long as they're honest about what they're doing.

Exactly.

Volenti non fit injuria

If you do something willingly and consciously ergo there is no harm done. If somebody risks his money and he knows what he is doing, then it is his freedom and his problem if he loses the money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volenti_non_fit_injuria

[wumpus]

I don't think GLBSE itself is a scam. It is an interesting setup, and has been running for quite a long time now. Also, Nefario doesn't seem like a scammer to me.

I do think they need some better checking of "companies" trading there, and making sure they hold to their promises and report their information. Otherwise, I won't be likely to ever invest there.

[Rassah]

An exchange company is not responsible for regulating its offerings, investing in stocks/shares is risky, and everyone should do their own research before investing in anything?
THANKS CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!

[Nagle]

An exchange company is not responsible for regulating its offerings, investing in stocks/shares is risky, and everyone should do their own research before investing in anything?

At various times I've pointed out that Mt. Gox isn't registered as a money-transfer firm in Japan, that Global Standard Bank's isn't a bank and pictures of their offices were Photoshopped images of a building in Seattle and a bank interior in Florida, that Dwolla is run out of a hacker space in Iowa, that Bit-Pay is two guys operating out of a house in Orlando, Florida, and that Bruce Wagner has a mortgage-fraud judgement against him in Illinois.

I get comments like "troll" and "hater" for that. The scammers here have supporters, or at least shills.

[Bitcoin Swami]

An exchange company is not responsible for regulating its offerings, investing in stocks/shares is risky, and everyone should do their own research before investing in anything?

At various times I've pointed out that Mt. Gox isn't registered as a money-transfer firm in Japan, that Global Standard Bank's isn't a bank and pictures of their offices were Photoshopped images of a building in Seattle and a bank interior in Florida, that Dwolla is run out of a hacker space in Iowa, that Bit-Pay is two guys operating out of a house in Orlando, Florida, and that Bruce Wagner has a mortgage-fraud judgement against him in Illinois.

I get comments like "troll" and "hater" for that. The scammers here have supporters, or at least shills.

Yeah bit-pay is run by 2 guys, so what.  Didn't apple start with 2 guys in a garage or something?  Whats your point here.  Its not like having a huge building and a huge amount of employees makes a company more legit. 

[Rassah]

An exchange company is not responsible for regulating its offerings, investing in stocks/shares is risky, and everyone should do their own research before investing in anything?

At various times I've pointed out that Mt. Gox isn't registered as a money-transfer firm in Japan, that Global Standard Bank's isn't a bank and pictures of their offices were Photoshopped images of a building in Seattle and a bank interior in Florida, that Dwolla is run out of a hacker space in Iowa, that Bit-Pay is two guys operating out of a house in Orlando, Florida, and that Bruce Wagner has a mortgage-fraud judgement against him in Illinois.

I get comments like "troll" and "hater" for that. The scammers here have supporters, or at least shills.

You'd be surprised how many companies are like that, especially with so much work being outsourced to other companies. Haribo, the top company for gummi candy, like gummi bears, licorice, cola candy, etc, has an American branch that takes care of the entire north continent, selling to gas stations, Wal-Marts, Targets, candy shoppes, etc. It's run by 9 people (2 accountants, 3 order processors, 1 shipping manager, and the rest are finance and business managers) out of a tiny office. Most of the work is outsourced to shipping companies, outside factories, public warehouses, etc. Regarding bitcoin businesses and other similar start-ups, thanks to a lot of coding, security, and banking being outsourced, there's no longer a need to have a huge IT staff coding your stuff, or personal security auditors.
So, it's about time you got used to dealing with businesses like these, and learn how to figure out which you can trust (which you seem to be doing fairly well already).

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Source: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=578465

dublinclontarf 867 days ago | link

I get like that, I really am impressionable. For example after watching a few zombie movies (the new ones with fast zombies, think 28 Days/Weeks later) I hear shouting & screaming on a main shopping street the first thing that comes to my mind is zombie outbreak, get ready to run.

I read The Complete Alien Omnibus, and when I would wake up at night to go to the bathroom I'd see shapes moving on the wall.

So, when I read about cryptography and the weakest link is the human part I automatically think torture. I know the chances of me or anyone I know being brought in for "questioning" is immeasurably slim but... it would quell my anxiety if I was prepared for such an eventuality, I mean I've already got a zombie plan, which works(I hope) equally well for any kind of viral outbreak.

Plain old paranoia I guess.

[Nagle]

Haribo, the top company for gummi candy, like gummi bears, licorice, cola candy, etc, has an American branch that takes care of the entire north continent, selling to gas stations, Wal-Marts, Targets, candy shoppes, etc. It's run by 9 people (2 accountants, 3 order processors, 1 shipping manager, and the rest are finance and business managers) out of a tiny office. Most of the work is outsourced to shipping companies, outside factories, public warehouses, etc.

Haribo has 6000 employees, five factories in Germany, 13 in the rest of Europe, and a headquarters in Bonn. Check out Haribo HQ in Bonn. Half a city block, five story buildings, silos towering over the buildings, semitrailers with "Haribo" in colorful letters.  This is not like two guys in a house pretending to be a financial business.

[nhodges]

This remember me EVE online

The various investments were never scam, never! Well unless the guy take all the money and disappear.

And here it seems the same.... everyone "omg nono it's not a scam, you idiot", until of course they disappear with the bitcoins...

Exactly, good analogy. If you're dumb enough to give your money over to someone before taking the time to verify it is a sound investment in an honest entity, you're begging to have it taken from you.

I agree, there's a problem, maybe because the barrier to entry is so low, and that's why there are trading minimums and limits on real stock exchanges. Maybe another reason. I'm not an expert on this subject matter.

[DonnyCMU]

I think New York Stock Exchange is the largest scam of them all.

Because Enron listed on the NYSE. That is why NYSE is a scam.

[Rassah]

Haribo, the top company for gummi candy, like gummi bears, licorice, cola candy, etc, has an American branch that takes care of the entire north continent, selling to gas stations, Wal-Marts, Targets, candy shoppes, etc. It's run by 9 people (2 accountants, 3 order processors, 1 shipping manager, and the rest are finance and business managers) out of a tiny office. Most of the work is outsourced to shipping companies, outside factories, public warehouses, etc.

Haribo has 6000 employees, five factories in Germany, 13 in the rest of Europe, and a headquarters in Bonn. Check out Haribo HQ in Bonn. Half a city block, five story buildings, silos towering over the buildings, semitrailers with "Haribo" in colorful letters.  This is not like two guys in a house pretending to be a financial business.

Haribo of America is practically an independent division, taking care of all of North America, doing their own thing, and only required to send financial statements and money (profits) to the main office. They chose which factory to order the candy from (which compete on price), which shippers to use, and whom to sell to for what price. I was one of the two accountants. Although the overall organization is no doubt large, it's split up into independent competing entities, with the main goal of making the owner of the overall private company rich.

[Rassah]

It seems the root of the complaint here is that the GLBSE is not subject to a regulatory authority, like the SEC. So, does the OP propose that GLBSE require companies to submit filing requests and million dollar fees to register with the SEC, to establish their own international regulatory agency, or does the OP propose establishing an independent ratings agency like Moody's or Standard & Poor?
Or does the OP propose to whine and bitch and waste everyone's time?

[Littleshop]

It seems the root of the complaint here is that the GLBSE is not subject to a regulatory authority, like the SEC. So, does the OP propose that GLBSE require companies to submit filing requests and million dollar fees to register with the SEC, to establish their own international regulatory agency, or does the OP propose establishing an independent ratings agency like Moody's or Standard & Poor?
Or does the OP propose to whine and bitch and waste everyone's time?

I (not the OP) would recommend that GLBSE do something to establish the identity of the company.  They could get some kind of ID, do some kind of snail mail exchange or require an SSL cert that required identity checking (like a godaddy premium $99 cert).  This would not be a huge burden as they have less then 20 companies.  This would not be impossible to scam, but would raise the bar a good deal.  If you can not find $99 of your own money for your idea, it probably is not going to give investors any returns.  You have no skin in the game at all and nobody really knows who you are.

[buttcoin1]

hmm how about at a minimum:


The 'Companies' must follow generally accepted accounting standards. Have you seen how these 'Companies' are reporting their earnings? Did the people complete 6th grade math?

Have an independent Board of Directors

A minimum stock price set before delisting

Full contact information for the responsible party. Asshat776@gmail.com isn't full contact info.

Must respond to information requests in a timely manner.

An audit committee so what the 'owner' is saying is true. A picture of your bedroom isn't sufficient.

A report must be filed - in Bitcoin timelines, this should probaly be weekly.

Sufficient working capital for at least 6 months.

Public float - At least x% of shares must be owned by the public.

An audit committe for GLBSE to enforce standards.

[Rassah]

Emails, committees, and boards can all be faked. I'm actually more interested in how possible it would be to set up a legitimately working "corp" anonymously, using GPG keys, proof of funds ownership (easy with Bitcoin), customer feedback, and publically verified but anonymously published income statements and accounting documents (again, possible with Bitcoin if their internal transactions are also done via public block chain client). In short, a company that's possible to trust, that exists on the web outside of country borders, and without relying on personaly identifiable information to function (since even that isn't guaranteed protection against scammers).

[teflone]

hmm how about at a minimum:


The 'Companies' must follow generally accepted accounting standards. Have you seen how these 'Companies' are reporting their earnings? Did the people complete 6th grade math?

Have an independent Board of Directors

A minimum stock price set before delisting

Full contact information for the responsible party. Asshat776@gmail.com isn't full contact info.

Must respond to information requests in a timely manner.

An audit committee so what the 'owner' is saying is true. A picture of your bedroom isn't sufficient.

A report must be filed - in Bitcoin timelines, this should probaly be weekly.

Sufficient working capital for at least 6 months.

Public float - At least x% of shares must be owned by the public.



An audit committe for GLBSE to enforce standards.

Thanks for your email.. 

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Is this idea practical? The next person that offers up their Bitcoin product or service on this forum I, or any other person, post this on their thread:

Call Out: Request Full Disclosure (or something similar)

Just by knowing that they're going to be called out, will give every scam artist second thoughts on listing, let alone building, their business model.

Thoughts? Tweaks? Stupid? Let me know.

This shit has to stop and I, for one, am ready to draw that line in the sand.

[Nagle]

For a fuller, better assessment of the companies on the GLBSE, check out my list:

http://www.bitmarketwatch.com/news/?page_id=46

I mean, he made a list and left off all the best companies!

That's hysterical.  I haven't seen a list of companies that bad other than on high-yield investment program sites. And that's before doing due diligence.

[Xenland]

For a fuller, better assessment of the companies on the GLBSE, check out my list:

http://www.bitmarketwatch.com/news/?page_id=46

I mean, he made a list and left off all the best companies!

Thanks for doing your research as that does sound like a valid description of how i run things.

------
www.CheaperInBitcoins.com

[BubbleBoy]

The notion of "risk" does not apply. You take no risk when giving your money to a hobo, you give them up voluntarily. If 10 years later the same hobo turned successful business man gives you a million dollars out of gratitude, that's not an investment paying off, it's just serendipity. In the same way, giving money to random people on GLBSE cannot be considered an investment that caries a risk.

It strikes me that these folks set to live out their libertarian fantasies online behave much like a cargo cult: they duplicate the institutions from the statist world without bothering to understand why those regulations come to be, and how to supplement them in a deregulated fashion. They seem to believe that if you buy a domain called bitcoinbank.com or bitcoinstockexchange.org and cobble a web interface that claims it's a bank or a stock exchange, it will magically start to behave like the real thing, only much better because of the moral superiority of deregulation, freedom et al.

Don't get me wrong, maybe a stock exchange can function in a deregulated fashion, but they have to supplement the lack of government enforced contracts with real private contracts, and put meat on the bones of the "freedom of contract" mantra. Strong requirements of identity and financial disclosure, audits by respected 3rd parties, real contracts backed by escrow and/or private mediation etc.

Without these there's no "freedom of contract" at play because there's no contract - an enforceable bilateral agreement; it's all just a gentleman's agreement, in effect creating a lemon market where everybody is out to scam his counterpart since there's no way to know if you are talking with a real gentleman.

[teflone]

Hahahaa...

Yes, everyone is a stranger..

They are out to get you, I cant possibly trust anyone on the internet!  lol  (heavy sarcasm)



People, do your research, and invest with an educated mind..   There is always risk.. 

[Gabi]

lol bubbleboy, you make me laugh 

and well yes you are right

[Anonymous]

The notion of "risk" does not apply. You take no risk when giving your money to a hobo, you give them up voluntarily. If 10 years later the same hobo turned successful business man gives you a million dollars out of gratitude, that's not an investment paying off, it's just serendipity. In the same way, giving money to random people on GLBSE cannot be considered an investment that caries a risk.

It strikes me that these folks set to live out their libertarian fantasies online behave much like a cargo cult: they duplicate the institutions from the statist world without bothering to understand why those regulations come to be, and how to supplement them in a deregulated fashion. They seem to believe that if you buy a domain called bitcoinbank.com or bitcoinstockexchange.org and cobble a web interface that claims it's a bank or a stock exchange, it will magically start to behave like the real thing, only much better because of the moral superiority of deregulation, freedom et al.

Don't get me wrong, maybe a stock exchange can function in a deregulated fashion, but they have to supplement the lack of government enforced contracts with real private contracts, and put meat on the bones of the "freedom of contract" mantra. Strong requirements of identity and financial disclosure, audits by respected 3rd parties, real contracts backed by escrow and/or private mediation etc.

Without these there's no "freedom of contract" at play because there's no contract - an enforceable bilateral agreement; it's all just a gentleman's agreement, in effect creating a lemon market where everybody is out to scam his counterpart since there's no way to know if you are talking with a real gentleman.

A contract can be enforced in an anonymous online world, just without the usual consequences. In our situation, the collateral would simply be a loss of reputation and ability to do business. So grand agreements will require just as grand people.

Identities can be verified with GPG keys and other technology, if you aren't familiar. It enables business online but not as optimally as real transactions.

[Rassah]

A contract can be enforced in an anonymous online world, just without the usual consequences. In our situation, the collateral would simply be a loss of reputation and ability to do business. So grand agreements will require just as grand people.

Identities can be verified with GPG keys and other technology, if you aren't familiar. It enables business online but not as optimally as real transactions.

Perhaps an escrow holding Bitcoin (or if the ever get it working, multi-key scripts to share control of Bitcoin) can be used as collateral in future contracts, too?
I really think we need some "open source" accounting geeks to start drafting the other, likely just as important, component of Bitcoin: Bitcoin specific GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Practices). I'm no accountant myself (had many classes, but hate the subject), but I thing certain things should be standardised, such as keeping some of the company's internal transactions on the public block chain, with matching addresses on financial statements. Things like this will go far to help people independently verify a business and improve trust over all.

[nighteyes]

It seems the root of the complaint here is that the GLBSE is not subject to a regulatory authority, like the SEC.

Good luck telling the SEC that they have no authority over the GLBSE.

I think initially it was a bit scary that the GLBSE went into business, but now its so much discredited that its a good thing. Anything that identifies these people so easily is a good thing. Thats why I dont like censorship, which is what the OP is suggesting.

You get MemoryDealers who sounds decent, and then "Bruce Wagner"......thanks for making it easy to see your true identity.
Same thing with GLBSE....instead of 6 page proof of smoke&fire just say "GLBSE"...case closed.

I was opposed for saying that a company has to prove that its not a scam....well if you think a company is innocent till proven guilty(and even then it still gets a second/third/tenth chance apparently), then the GLBSE is all for you....but again all that does is expose your identity, which is a good thing.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

Don't get me wrong, maybe a stock exchange can function in a deregulated fashion, but they have to supplement the lack of government enforced contracts with real private contracts, and put meat on the bones of the "freedom of contract" mantra. Strong requirements of identity and financial disclosure, audits by respected 3rd parties, real contracts backed by escrow and/or private mediation etc.

Without these there's no "freedom of contract" at play because there's no contract - an enforceable bilateral agreement; it's all just a gentleman's agreement, in effect creating a lemon market where everybody is out to scam his counterpart since there's no way to know if you are talking with a real gentleman.

I mostly agree, but how do you make a truly "enforceable contract" when you're clearly violating the arbitrary laws imposed by the "enforcement monopoly"? Besides the "mafia way", which is obviously not a solution for GBSLE, I can't see much better alternatives than trying to improve their reputation system. This way at least it becomes harder to be a "fake gentleman".

How can they improve their reputation system is a tough question, but the things you mention (identity and financial disclosure, audits, escrow, mediation etc) might be some answers - they don't entirely need actual enforcement to happen.

[Rassah]

It seems the root of the complaint here is that the GLBSE is not subject to a regulatory authority, like the SEC.

Good luck telling the SEC that they have no authority over the GLBSE.

Is GLBSE based in USA? Does it transact using American currency? Then why would the SEC have any authority over it?

I think initially it was a bit scary that the GLBSE went into business, but now its so much discredited that its a good thing. Anything that identifies these people so easily is a good thing. Thats why I dont like censorship, which is what the OP is suggesting.
Same thing with GLBSE....instead of 6 page proof of smoke&fire just say "GLBSE"...case closed.

I was opposed for saying that a company has to prove that its not a scam....well if you think a company is innocent till proven guilty(and even then it still gets a second/third/tenth chance apparently), then the GLBSE is all for you....but again all that does is expose your identity, which is a good thing.

You're confusing "GLBSE" with "Companies listed on GLBSE." GLBSE is just a service. Some of the companies it lists will be scams, some will be risky businesses, and some will be good businesses. It's not that a "company is innocent till proven guilty," it's that the company is an unknown until it is researched, establishes itself, and becomes known. There's no guilt or lack of it (unless the business is exposed as a scam). No one should ever invest in anything they don't know about, anyway, and, hopefully, most of the companies listed on the GLBSE that did not provide any business details were not invested in, either.

[Rassah]

I mostly agree, but how do you make a truly "enforceable contract" when you're clearly violating the arbitrary laws imposed by the "enforcement monopoly"? Besides the "mafia way", which is obviously not a solution for GBSLE, I can't see much better alternatives than trying to improve their reputation system. This way at least it becomes harder to be a "fake gentleman".

One suggestion is another more-or-less libertarian system: private arbitration. Those types of "courts" already exist, and perhaps with this can be expanded on even more (like, a company willing to submit to arbitration in various locations around the world, with the decision being enforced by the legal system of the country where the dispute happens). It can get really complicated really fast, though, but that also probably means that there is a huge untapped market for online- and bitcoin- specific arbitration courts. Perhaps even putting up some publicly verifiable collateral (Bitcoin) with a third party as a part of your initial business start-up costs will help with establishing reputation, too (e.g. as a start-up, you have %80 operating cash, and 20% collateral cash held with escrow or arbitration service, from which payments are made to customers who were harmed, or to stock holders if the business fails. Then as business reputation and cash flows improve, the %20 gets adjusted to %10, and so on. This way the business can still claim that 20% as part of their company asset/equity, and will have an incentive to do whatever it can to reclaim that money for personal use).
I agree that a large part of the enforcement will also simply be customers not wanting to deal with you if you sound shady.

[Nagle]

One suggestion is another more-or-less libertarian system: private arbitration.

Arbitration hasn't worked out too well. There's a tendency for arbitrators to be "captured" by their "regular customers". The "National Arbitration Forum" turned out to be a front for a debt-collecting firm. Also see "The Arbitration Trap", from Public Citizen.

[nighteyes]

Is GLBSE based in USA? Does it transact using American currency? Then why would the SEC have any authority over it?

"The Dodd-Frank Act grants federal district courts jurisdiction over SEC actions charging federal securities violations where (i) conduct within the United States constitutes a significant step in furtherance of a violation, even if the transaction occurs outside the United States and involves only foreign investors, or (ii) conduct occurring outside the United States has a foreseeable substantial effect within the United States"
http://www.mayerbrown.com/securities-litigation-enforcement/article.asp?id=9987&nid=13067

But again, feel free to disagree and fight the SEC. And thanks for nitpicking the word SEC.

You're confusing "GLBSE" with "Companies listed on GLBSE." GLBSE is just a service. Some of the companies it lists will be scams, some will be risky businesses, and some will be good businesses. It's not that a "company is innocent till proven guilty," it's that the company is an unknown until it is researched, establishes itself, and becomes known. There's no guilt or lack of it (unless the business is exposed as a scam). No one should ever invest in anything they don't know about, anyway, and, hopefully, most of the companies listed on the GLBSE that did not provide any business details were not invested in, either.

Its not that in particular they are evil or have guilt....they are contaminated.

[Rassah]

One suggestion is another more-or-less libertarian system: private arbitration.

Arbitration hasn't worked out too well. There's a tendency for arbitrators to be "captured" by their "regular customers". The "National Arbitration Forum" turned out to be a front for a debt-collecting firm. Also see "The Arbitration Trap", from Public Citizen.

Oh yes, I'm quite aware of all this. Personally, it bothers me to see so many companies require all disputes to be handled through arbitration instead of public court when you sign contracts with them.
But that doesn't mean that the system can't be improved, or a more transparent system specifically dealing with international law and international currency can't be established. That project is still in it's infancy right now, but with so much outsourcing, offshoring, cloud services, etc, it is DESPERATELY needed. Granted, that project is very much beyond the scope of this forum  

[speeder]

I love US silly laws that say that US can judge non-US citizens for actions taken outside US...


Or US silly laws that say that US citizens that are living abroad, even if they never stepped on US, owe taxes to US...

I am glad I am NOT a US citizen.

[Rassah]

"The Dodd-Frank Act grants federal district courts jurisdiction over SEC actions charging federal securities violations where (i) conduct within the United States constitutes a significant step in furtherance of a violation, even if the transaction occurs outside the United States and involves only foreign investors, or (ii) conduct occurring outside the United States has a foreseeable substantial effect within the United States"
http://www.mayerbrown.com/securities-litigation-enforcement/article.asp?id=9987&nid=13067

Well ain't that some sh*t (in a specific use of the word). Conduct within the United States can be charged with violation, even if the conduct occurs outside the United States? Huh???

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

*** There is absolutely nothing stopping you from creating a competing stock exchange !!! ***

In fact, if you do and it is as functional as GLBSE is right now, I personally pledge to invest £1000 across the companies listed on it and test it for you for free, once it has run for the same period of time that GLBSE has to this date.

I pledge to repeat this for each further year it continues to run.

Crack on or quit your jibber jabber.

hmm how about at a minimum:


The 'Companies' must follow generally accepted accounting standards. Have you seen how these 'Companies' are reporting their earnings? Did the people complete 6th grade math?

Have an independent Board of Directors

A minimum stock price set before delisting

Full contact information for the responsible party. Asshat776@gmail.com isn't full contact info.

Must respond to information requests in a timely manner.

An audit committee so what the 'owner' is saying is true. A picture of your bedroom isn't sufficient.

A report must be filed - in Bitcoin timelines, this should probaly be weekly.

Sufficient working capital for at least 6 months.

Public float - At least x% of shares must be owned by the public.

An audit committe for GLBSE to enforce standards.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

That is a whole lot of judgement for someone who doesn't have the courage of conviction to put their name to the piece.

Any chance GLBSE or any of the companies slandered get to face their accuser ?

Or is identification just something the author feels they can demand of others but not demonstrate of themselves ?

GLBSE?

http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=252

[buttcoin1]

There's no reason they can't reply in this thread if their so called 'company' isn't a scam. Or the GLBSE site. Who makes money from GLBSE? Just the owner who gets a percentage.

And I'm not the one asking for capital to fund my 'mining' operation with no intention of paying anyone back.

You must be one of the people who think ponzi schemes are ok to market on this so called 'exchange'.

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

I was paid to do testing work for GLBSE - see here : https://glbse.com/contact.rhtml

Guess that means I make money from GLBSE.

Anyone that knows me in real life, knows full well that I don't invest my time in something unless I believe in it and consider it worth spending a portion of my finite time on this planet on.

There is more than one owner of GLBSE - which you could ascertain from some basic due diligence - it is trivially easy to discover - because there is nothing to hide.

You have not perform any of the necessary investigation you should have before making the statement you have.

I would tread extremely carefully - you are running the very real risk of being convicted of slander by the various individuals and the businesses you have made statements against so far.

There's no reason they can't reply in this thread if their so called 'company' isn't a scam. Or the GLBSE site. Who makes money from GLBSE? Just the owner who gets a percentage.

And I'm not the one asking for capital to fund my 'mining' operation with no intention of paying anyone back.

You must be one of the people who think ponzi schemes are ok to market on this so called 'exchange'.

(Edited to include the link I missed out)

[bbit]

glsbe is that one.

[BubbleBoy]

I would tread extremely carefully - you are running the very real risk of being convicted of slander by the various individuals and the businesses you have made statements against so far.

How can he be convicted of slander if he never signed a contract with the accusers or the mediators ? Ah I see, you are talking about the good old monopolistic mediator and the mandatory social contract established by violence.

The irony.

[bitstarter]

There's no reason they can't reply in this thread if their so called 'company' isn't a scam. Or the GLBSE site. Who makes money from GLBSE? Just the owner who gets a percentage.

And I'm not the one asking for capital to fund my 'mining' operation with no intention of paying anyone back.

You must be one of the people who think ponzi schemes are ok to market on this so called 'exchange'.

Hello Buttcoin - I'm one of those Companies who has a face ,who you attacked in your piece. I own http://www.bitcoinstarter.com or Bitstarter and under IBB umbrella of investments . It is taking long for us to setup then expected but we tend to be a full-fledged company and will be launching soon.

What is your beef with GLBSE?

[buttcoin1]

I would tread extremely carefully - you are running the very real risk of being convicted of slander by the various individuals and the businesses you have made statements against so far.

eh, these companies are all scams. Prove otherwise? Do they have business licenses?

Who would I be convicted from? The Bitcoin Police? Yes, I know who they are: http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=318

[memvola]

What is your beef with GLBSE?

I don't understand what their beef is with Bitcoin in general... Some people are really putting time and effort into this. What's the catch? Would anyone care to enlighten me?

[buttcoin1]

There's no reason they can't reply in this thread if their so called 'company' isn't a scam. Or the GLBSE site. Who makes money from GLBSE? Just the owner who gets a percentage.

And I'm not the one asking for capital to fund my 'mining' operation with no intention of paying anyone back.

You must be one of the people who think ponzi schemes are ok to market on this so called 'exchange'.

Hello Buttcoin - I'm one of those Companies who has a face ,who you attacked in your piece. I own http://www.bitcoinstarter.com or Bitstarter and under IBB umbrella of investments . It is taking long for us to setup then expected but we tend to be a full-fledged company and will be launching soon.

What is your beef with GLBSE?

How much working capital do you have?

Do you have a business license?

What country are you operating out of?

Where is your full contact information?

Do you know how to create accounting statements?

The GLBSE isn't a stock exchange, you are essentially asking for a loan. What is your collateral?

What is your plan to return equity to owners when you essentially go bankrupt?

Do you have an SLA?

Do you, or have you, created a business plan?

Who is this company? Is it just one person operating out of a college dorm room?

[Ben Walsh (beamer)]

You do know how Facebook started right ?

Regarding the slander ...

Equally applicable to individuals.

I'm just waiting for something aimed directly at me.

There's no reason they can't reply in this thread if their so called 'company' isn't a scam. Or the GLBSE site. Who makes money from GLBSE? Just the owner who gets a percentage.

And I'm not the one asking for capital to fund my 'mining' operation with no intention of paying anyone back.

You must be one of the people who think ponzi schemes are ok to market on this so called 'exchange'.

Hello Buttcoin - I'm one of those Companies who has a face ,who you attacked in your piece. I own http://www.bitcoinstarter.com or Bitstarter and under IBB umbrella of investments . It is taking long for us to setup then expected but we tend to be a full-fledged company and will be launching soon.

What is your beef with GLBSE?

How much working capital do you have?

Do you have a business license?

What country are you operating out of?

Where is your full contact information?

Do you know how to create accounting statements?

The GLBSE isn't a stock exchange, you are essentially asking for a loan. What is your collateral?

What is your plan to return equity to owners when you essentially go bankrupt?

Do you have an SLA?

Do you, or have you, created a business plan?

Who is this company? Is it just one person operating out of a college dorm room?

[RandyFolds]

Regarding the slander ...

Equally applicable to individuals.

I'm just waiting for something aimed directly at me.

Ben Walsh, you are a poorly-spoken pile of shit, and you sound like a giant douchebag in this thread.
















Wait...it isn't slander if it's true.

[RandyFolds]

The notion of "risk" does not apply. You take no risk when giving your money to a hobo, you give them up voluntarily. If 10 years later the same hobo turned successful business man gives you a million dollars out of gratitude, that's not an investment paying off, it's just serendipity. In the same way, giving money to random people on GLBSE cannot be considered an investment that caries a risk.

It strikes me that these folks set to live out their libertarian fantasies online behave much like a cargo cult: they duplicate the institutions from the statist world without bothering to understand why those regulations come to be, and how to supplement them in a deregulated fashion. They seem to believe that if you buy a domain called bitcoinbank.com or bitcoinstockexchange.org and cobble a web interface that claims it's a bank or a stock exchange, it will magically start to behave like the real thing, only much better because of the moral superiority of deregulation, freedom et al.

Don't get me wrong, maybe a stock exchange can function in a deregulated fashion, but they have to supplement the lack of government enforced contracts with real private contracts, and put meat on the bones of the "freedom of contract" mantra. Strong requirements of identity and financial disclosure, audits by respected 3rd parties, real contracts backed by escrow and/or private mediation etc.

Without these there's no "freedom of contract" at play because there's no contract - an enforceable bilateral agreement; it's all just a gentleman's agreement, in effect creating a lemon market where everybody is out to scam his counterpart since there's no way to know if you are talking with a real gentleman.

Well said, BubbleBoy.

[buttcoin1]

You do know how Facebook started right ?

I wasn't aware that Facebook IPO'd on the GLBSE.

[RandyFolds]

You do know how Facebook started right ?

I wasn't aware that Facebook IPO'd on the GLBSE.

zing!

[buttcoin1]

I have no account on SA. How can I prove this? Does an IPO on the GLBSE count?

Apparently because someone points out there's something wrong with the Bitcoin Mafia the person is labeled a troll or an SA member.

I do not look like this:



Or know what SA is.

[bbit]

What is your beef with GLBSE?

I don't understand what their beef is with Bitcoin in general... Some people are really putting time and effort into this. What's the catch? Would anyone care to enlighten me?

Good luck. Will since we have SA attention why don't they go ahead and inform us. Buttcoin ...Randyfold watcha say? Btw: notice how this thread will grow more with them ad they report back to the home base to rile up there fellow trolls!

[RandyFolds]

What is your beef with GLBSE?

I don't understand what their beef is with Bitcoin in general... Some people are really putting time and effort into this. What's the catch? Would anyone care to enlighten me?

Good luck. Will since we have SA attention why don't they go ahead and inform us. Buttcoin ...Randyfold watcha say? Btw: notice how this thread will grow more with them ad they report back to the home base to rile up there fellow trolls!

Are you retarded? I troll for the love of the game, not some SA government troll subsidies.

[buttcoin1]

What is your beef with GLBSE?

I don't understand what their beef is with Bitcoin in general... Some people are really putting time and effort into this. What's the catch? Would anyone care to enlighten me?

Good luck. Will since we have SA attention why don't they go ahead and inform us. Buttcoin ...Randyfold watcha say? Btw: notice how this thread will grow more with them ad they report back to the home base to rile up there fellow trolls!

Do you think that GLBSE is the place to put your hard earned money? Do you normally just give away your money? Do you have a problem with someone calling out issues with a website that takes peoples money?

You are the problem, not the solution.

[bbit]

What is your beef with GLBSE?

I don't understand what their beef is with Bitcoin in general... Some people are really putting time and effort into this. What's the catch? Would anyone care to enlighten me?

Good luck. Will since we have SA attention why don't they go ahead and inform us. Buttcoin ...Randyfold watcha say? Btw: notice how this thread will grow more with them ad they report back to the home base to rile up there fellow trolls!

Are you retarded? I troll for the love of the game, not some SA government troll subsidies.

Wow, you are stupid you admitted you were you need the evidence?

[RandyFolds]

What is your beef with GLBSE?

I don't understand what their beef is with Bitcoin in general... Some people are really putting time and effort into this. What's the catch? Would anyone care to enlighten me?

Good luck. Will since we have SA attention why don't they go ahead and inform us. Buttcoin ...Randyfold watcha say? Btw: notice how this thread will grow more with them ad they report back to the home base to rile up there fellow trolls!

Are you retarded? I troll for the love of the game, not some SA government troll subsidies.

Wow, you are stupid you admitted you were you need the evidence?

Yes, because I am pretty certain that I am not a member there, though I have pondered it.

Why would you ask if I need the evidence? Show 'em if you got 'em, pussy.

[buttcoin1]

What is your beef with GLBSE?

I don't understand what their beef is with Bitcoin in general... Some people are really putting time and effort into this. What's the catch? Would anyone care to enlighten me?

Good luck. Will since we have SA attention why don't they go ahead and inform us. Buttcoin ...Randyfold watcha say? Btw: notice how this thread will grow more with them ad they report back to the home base to rile up there fellow trolls!

Are you retarded? I troll for the love of the game, not some SA government troll subsidies.

Wow, you are stupid you admitted you were you need the evidence?

Yes, because I am pretty certain that I am not a member there, though I have pondered it.

Why would you ask if I need the evidence? Show 'em if you got 'em, pussy.

Dude, I think that's slander. He may contact the Bitcoin Police and put you in bit jail.

[RandyFolds]

What is your beef with GLBSE?

I don't understand what their beef is with Bitcoin in general... Some people are really putting time and effort into this. What's the catch? Would anyone care to enlighten me?

Good luck. Will since we have SA attention why don't they go ahead and inform us. Buttcoin ...Randyfold watcha say? Btw: notice how this thread will grow more with them ad they report back to the home base to rile up there fellow trolls!

Are you retarded? I troll for the love of the game, not some SA government troll subsidies.

Wow, you are stupid you admitted you were you need the evidence?

Yes, because I am pretty certain that I am not a member there, though I have pondered it.

Why would you ask if I need the evidence? Show 'em if you got 'em, pussy.

Dude, I think that's slander. He may contact the Bitcoin Police and put you in bit jail.

What do you mean, "you"? How dare you? That's verbal assault, and I'll see you in court, holmes.

You sir, are a racist homosexual pornographer.

[memvola]

I troll for the love of the game, not some SA government troll subsidies.

I still don't get why trolling is fun, though I don't have any argument why it shouldn't be... It's probably easier to troll passionate communities, so makes sense to pick Bitcoin too. So, there is no negative sentiments towards Bitcoin and all this is because this forum is easily trollable? Somehow I doubt that...

[bbit]

I would tread extremely carefully - you are running the very real risk of being convicted of slander by the various individuals and the businesses you have made statements against so far.

eh, these companies are all scams. Prove otherwise? Do they have business licenses?

Who would I be convicted from? The Bitcoin Police? Yes, I know who they are: http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=318

So every company without a license is a scam wow what a moron you are!

[Anonymous]

It's a European thing. There's very few places in the world right now where you can start a business without the permission of your state overlords.

A damn shame, really. It's a poor attitude to have about business in general.

[buttcoin1]

I would tread extremely carefully - you are running the very real risk of being convicted of slander by the various individuals and the businesses you have made statements against so far.

eh, these companies are all scams. Prove otherwise? Do they have business licenses?

Who would I be convicted from? The Bitcoin Police? Yes, I know who they are: http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=318

So every company without a license is a scam wow what a moron you are!

All the 'companies', if you even want to call them that, on GLBSE are scams. and GLBSE is one big scam.

Prove otherwise.

[trentzb]

All the 'companies', if you even want to call them that, on GLBSE are scams. and GLBSE is one big scam.

Prove otherwise.

Define scam.

[OgNasty]

All the 'companies', if you even want to call them that, on GLBSE are scams. and GLBSE is one big scam.

Prove otherwise.

Start your own exchange.  I want to invest in small bitcoin companies and the GLBSE is my only option right now.  Mtgox or some other big bitcoin company should list a small number of their shares somewhere as well.  The volatility and factors involved could make for some exciting opportunities.  I just hope the GLBSE or whatever exchange is adopted to be 'the one' starts listing some kind of reputable hard assets or major companies that can act as a reliable bitcoin trading vehicle.  

[buttcoin1]

All the 'companies', if you even want to call them that, on GLBSE are scams. and GLBSE is one big scam.

Prove otherwise.

You are a scammer and a troll.

Prove otherwise.

I haven't put my company on GLBSE. Or maybe I have. How would you know? Since you have no recourse to get your money back from me, I am a scammer!

I just looked in the mirror. AFAIK, I don't look like a troll.

Oh, wait. I see how this works. You are a troll.

Time for the troll 'bbit' to reply now.

[buttcoin1]

All the 'companies', if you even want to call them that, on GLBSE are scams. and GLBSE is one big scam.

Prove otherwise.

Define scam.

The general definition doesn't work for you?

[trentzb]

no clue what you consider the "general definition" is. If you mean:

Definition of SCAM

: a fraudulent or deceptive act or operation <an insurance scam>

then I could confidently state that

All the 'companies', if you even want to call them that, on GLBSE are scams. and GLBSE is one big scam.

is false. Prove otherwise.

[bbit]

I would tread extremely carefully - you are running the very real risk of being convicted of slander by the various individuals and the businesses you have made statements against so far.

eh, these companies are all scams. Prove otherwise? Do they have business licenses?

Who would I be convicted from? The Bitcoin Police? Yes, I know who they are: http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=318

So every company without a license is a scam wow what a moron you are!

All the 'companies', if you even want to call them that, on GLBSE are scams. and GLBSE is one big scam.

Prove otherwise.

Hey, dipshit your the one making the "claim" YOU PROVE IT!   so get to it !

[buttcoin1]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scam

tr.v. scammed, scam·ming, scams
To defraud; swindle.

Defraud. Perfectly fits GLBSE.

I have already proved it. Apparently no one in this thread can prove otherwise.

[bitstarter]

There's no reason they can't reply in this thread if their so called 'company' isn't a scam. Or the GLBSE site. Who makes money from GLBSE? Just the owner who gets a percentage.

And I'm not the one asking for capital to fund my 'mining' operation with no intention of paying anyone back.

You must be one of the people who think ponzi schemes are ok to market on this so called 'exchange'.

Hello Buttcoin - I'm one of those Companies who has a face ,who you attacked in your piece. I own http://www.bitcoinstarter.com or Bitstarter and under IBB umbrella of investments . It is taking long for us to setup then expected but we tend to be a full-fledged company and will be launching soon.

What is your beef with GLBSE?

How much working capital do you have?

Do you have a business license?

What country are you operating out of?

Where is your full contact information?

Do you know how to create accounting statements?

The GLBSE isn't a stock exchange, you are essentially asking for a loan. What is your collateral?

What is your plan to return equity to owners when you essentially go bankrupt?

Do you have an SLA?

Do you, or have you, created a business plan?

Who is this company? Is it just one person operating out of a college dorm room?

Sorry, I don't have to reveal any of this information to you  since when did you become the master of  all company's ?  If anyone is interested in the company they can contact me privately.

[bbit]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scam

tr.v. scammed, scam·ming, scams
To defraud; swindle.

Defraud. Perfectly fits GLBSE.

I have already proved it. Apparently no one in this thread can prove otherwise.

Your the idiot that made the "claim" with no evidence so the burden of proof lies with you.  Show us the company on GLBSE who has "scammed/defrauded" everyone here?

[trentzb]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scam

tr.v. scammed, scam·ming, scams
To defraud; swindle.

Defraud. Perfectly fits GLBSE.

I have already proved it. Apparently no one in this thread can prove otherwise.

I came late, could you please point me to where you proved GLBSE committed fraud or swindled anyone? I am sure you have evidence supporting this claim.

[RandyFolds]

I would tread extremely carefully - you are running the very real risk of being convicted of slander by the various individuals and the businesses you have made statements against so far.

eh, these companies are all scams. Prove otherwise? Do they have business licenses?

Who would I be convicted from? The Bitcoin Police? Yes, I know who they are: http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=318

So every company without a license is a scam wow what a moron you are!

Where's the evidence you threatened me with, mongo?

[Rassah]

LOL! Some asswipe, with a s*it for a name, comes on this forum, thinking his "article" should be taken seriously, insults everyone, and is now demanding answers from people with actual work to do?

Why are you guys even acknowledging him?

[bbit]

Hey pussy face did you ever sign up ? you sure didn't mind mentioning you love SA  and would loved to sign up with them ...are you saying you wouldn't want to be an SA member you dumbfuck sure doesn't seem that way ?  also, love how you sympathize with the bashing of people on this board and bitcoin in general ...anyone just needs to read all the TROLLING you've been doing for the past few months .... pussy...

[Rassah]

anyone just needs to read all the TROLLING you've been doing for the past few months .... pussy...

Hey now. Pussies can take a hell of a lot more abuse than dicks.

[bbit]

Randyfolds at his finest!  I love it when I prove my points... just posted a few minutes ago ...

[bbit]

anyone just needs to read all the TROLLING you've been doing for the past few months .... pussy...

Hey now. Pussies can take a hell of a lot more abuse than dicks.

hahaha this is a good point! +1 

[RandyFolds]

Hey pussy face did you ever sign up ? you sure didn't mind mentioning you love SA  and would loved to sign up with them ...are you saying you wouldn't want to be an SA member you dumbfuck sure doesn't seem that way ?  also, love how you sympathize with the bashing of people on this board and bitcoin in general ...anyone just needs to read all the TROLLING you've been doing for the past few months .... pussy...

You said I was an admitted member. How does that foot taste, schizo?

Yes, this community is delusional, and some of the people at SA seem the most cognizant of that fact. Caveat emptor...if you bite the troll bait, prepare to be trolled. Some people just can't grasp that concept.

[RandyFolds]

Randyfolds at his finest!  I love it when I prove my points... just posted a few minutes ago ...

I said it.

That was me, mocking the IBB's 'PR rep', who called someone a tard.

I really don't get your game here. You wanna bone, or what?

[buttcoin1]

I came late, could you please point me to where you proved GLBSE committed fraud or swindled anyone? I am sure you have evidence supporting this claim.

Post #1? http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=252

[Rassah]

Geze guys, just go f*ck already. The manly sexual tension between you two is making ME feel weird. You're worse than a married couple even.

[buttcoin1]

Geze guys, just go f*ck already. The manly sexual tension between you two is making ME feel weird. You're worse than a married couple even.

I have it on good authority that Randy is actually a big titty'd Scandinavian woman. Although, she has a fat ass.

[Rassah]

Geze guys, just go f*ck already. The manly sexual tension between you two is making ME feel weird. You're worse than a married couple even.

I have it on good authority that Randy is actually a big titty'd Scandinavian woman. Although, she has a fat ass.

... is that what the "folds" is for? 

[buttcoin1]

Your the idiot that made the "claim" with no evidence so the burden of proof lies with you.  Show us the company on GLBSE who has "scammed/defrauded" everyone here?

Show me a company on GLBSE with a business plan, contact info, sustaining capital, or a business license. Or for that matter, show me that GLBSE has this. Show me how these supposed 'companies' return the capital to the 'investors' when they go bankrupt. What is the collateral being put up? Nothing. GLBE and all the so called companies on it are shams. GLBSE is one giant sham.

Look at my link, I already posted the so called companies that have defrauded 'investors'.

If you are smart you'd stay the fuck away from this site.

Idiots post useless nonsense. You joined the club. Have a cookie dumb ass.

[trentzb]

I came late, could you please point me to where you proved GLBSE committed fraud or swindled anyone? I am sure you have evidence supporting this claim.

Post #1? http://www.efwhyeye.com/?p=252

Yea, I just can't seem to find any evidence of GLBSE committing fraud there.

Show me how these supposed 'companies' return the capital to the 'investors' when they go bankrupt.

You listed one of these companies returning capital to the investors on your blog.

Dishwara: A Small Mining Company started as hobby

The “company” has already folded and is  selling all their equipment, buying back their shares and closing up shop.

[Rassah]

Show me a company on GLBSE with a business plan, contact info, sustaining capital, or a business license.

Why? Why waste time on you?

[buttcoin1]

Apparently the Bitcoin community has no education in business.

[bitstarter]

Apparently the Bitcoin community has no education in business.

who's the guy in your profile picture? He looks like a smart businessman?

[Rassah]

Apparently the Bitcoin community has no education in business.

You're the one asking stupid questions.

[buttcoin1]

You listed one of these companies returning capital to the investors on your blog.

Dishwara: A Small Mining Company started as hobby

The “company” has already folded and is  selling all their equipment, buying back their shares and closing up shop.

Dishwara just helps prove my point. GLBSE performs no over site of anything being posted (and it is their responsibility), does not do any due diligence, does not require any business documentations. There is no regulation on it. Its a scam pure and simple. A wild west to grab money and not pay it back. No statutory requirements to list on it.

Where is Dishwara's business license? Business plan? Operating capital? Contact info? List of auditors? Plan to return capital to investors when it goes bankrupt (which all Bitcoin companies have done on GLBSE).

Where is GLBSE's requirement to provide a quarterly report? Or even a monthly or weekly? Where does GLBE list the beta? Where are the earning listed? What about P/E? Or the PEG? Is there any expected growth here?

[bbit]

You listed one of these companies returning capital to the investors on your blog.

Dishwara: A Small Mining Company started as hobby

The “company” has already folded and is  selling all their equipment, buying back their shares and closing up shop.

Dishwara just helps prove my point. GLBSE performs no over site of anything being posted (and it is their responsibility), does not do any due diligence, does not require any business documentations. There is no regulation on it. Its a scam pure and simple. A wild west to grab money and not pay it back. No statutory requirements to list on it.

Where is Dishwara's business license? Business plan? Operating capital? Contact info? List of auditors? Plan to return capital to investors when it goes bankrupt (which all Bitcoin companies have done on GLBSE).

Where is GLBSE's requirement to provide a quarterly report? Or even a monthly or weekly? Where does GLBE list the beta? Where are the earning listed? What about P/E? Or the PEG? Is there any expected growth here?

....and once again where evidence of a scamming/fraud going on with any of the aforementioned company's. You surely would think you could find some forum members who were "scammed" ?  Your evidence is they haven't provided you with any information so that makes it automatically a scam. Will dipshit post your home address, your phone number, work number ( highly doubt you have work ) , your drivers license  if you don't you are a "scammer".  Oh and we are still waiting for the evidence.

[trentzb]

You listed one of these companies returning capital to the investors on your blog.

Dishwara: A Small Mining Company started as hobby

The “company” has already folded and is  selling all their equipment, buying back their shares and closing up shop.

Dishwara just helps prove my point. GLBSE performs no over site of anything being posted (and it is their responsibility), does not do any due diligence, does not require any business documentations. There is no regulation on it. Its a scam pure and simple. A wild west to grab money and not pay it back. No statutory requirements to list on it.

Where is Dishwara's business license? Business plan? Operating capital? Contact info? List of auditors? Plan to return capital to investors when it goes bankrupt (which all Bitcoin companies have done on GLBSE).

Where is GLBSE's requirement to provide a quarterly report? Or even a monthly or weekly? Where does GLBE list the beta? Where are the earning listed? What about P/E? Or the PEG? Is there any expected growth here?

Well, we just have a difference of opinion. Although I would have to agree that GLBSE is not the SEC and I don't think it pretends to be.

I have yet to see evidence that GLBSE has committed any sort of fraud. I believe fraud requires intent. Maybe negligence was what you were looking for? But I still would not agree that GLBSE has been negligent either.

I don't think anyone here is going to convince you otherwise, sorry you feel that way.

[bbit]

You listed one of these companies returning capital to the investors on your blog.

Dishwara: A Small Mining Company started as hobby

The “company” has already folded and is  selling all their equipment, buying back their shares and closing up shop.

Dishwara just helps prove my point. GLBSE performs no over site of anything being posted (and it is their responsibility), does not do any due diligence, does not require any business documentations. There is no regulation on it. Its a scam pure and simple. A wild west to grab money and not pay it back. No statutory requirements to list on it.

Where is Dishwara's business license? Business plan? Operating capital? Contact info? List of auditors? Plan to return capital to investors when it goes bankrupt (which all Bitcoin companies have done on GLBSE).

Where is GLBSE's requirement to provide a quarterly report? Or even a monthly or weekly? Where does GLBE list the beta? Where are the earning listed? What about P/E? Or the PEG? Is there any expected growth here?

Well, we just have a difference of opinion. Although I would have to agree that GLBSE is not the SEC and I don't think it pretends to be.

I have yet to see evidence that GLBSE has committed any sort of fraud. I believe fraud requires intent. Maybe negligence was what you were looking for? But I still would not agree that GLBSE has been negligent either.

I don't think anyone here is going to convince you otherwise, sorry you feel that way.

Trentzb - there is no point you are trying to be rational with a "troll"  it doesn't work.

[buttcoin1]

You listed one of these companies returning capital to the investors on your blog.

Dishwara: A Small Mining Company started as hobby

The “company” has already folded and is  selling all their equipment, buying back their shares and closing up shop.

Dishwara just helps prove my point. GLBSE performs no over site of anything being posted (and it is their responsibility), does not do any due diligence, does not require any business documentations. There is no regulation on it. Its a scam pure and simple. A wild west to grab money and not pay it back. No statutory requirements to list on it.

Where is Dishwara's business license? Business plan? Operating capital? Contact info? List of auditors? Plan to return capital to investors when it goes bankrupt (which all Bitcoin companies have done on GLBSE).

Where is GLBSE's requirement to provide a quarterly report? Or even a monthly or weekly? Where does GLBE list the beta? Where are the earning listed? What about P/E? Or the PEG? Is there any expected growth here?

....and once again where evidence of a scamming/fraud going on with any of the aforementioned company's. You surely would think you could find some forum members who were "scammed" ?  Your evidence is they haven't provided you with any information so that makes it automatically a scam. Will dipshit post your home address, your phone number, work number ( highly doubt you have work ) , your drivers license  if you don't you are a "scammer".  Oh and we are still waiting for the evidence.

No plan to return any investors money isn't enough for you? How about not returning investors money? Were you a proponent of Mybitcoin.com as well?

[dishwara]

Dishwara: A Small Mining Company started as hobby
The “company” has already folded and is  selling all their equipment, buying back their shares and closing up shop.

No plan to return any investors money isn't enough for you? How about not returning investors money? Were you a proponent of Mybitcoin.com as well?

You contradicting your own statement?

In your blog you said DISHWARA buying back their shares & in the last post you said "No plan to return any investors money"


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Consultancy

[Raoul Duke]

Buttcoin1, just by looking at your website I came to the conclusion that you are a scammer, a pedophile and a motherfucker.

Prove me otherwise!

[Xenland]

I get a good kick out of buttcoin.com its kind of like ED but for Bitcoins!

[bbit]

12 yr old kids shouldnt be allowed to post not sure how he manages it.

[Rassah]

I get a good kick out of buttcoin.com its kind of like ED but for Bitcoins!

ED? You mean like Special ED?

[RandyFolds]

So what's the consensus on the Gay Lesbian and Bisexual Securities Exchange?

Am I gonna be rich?

[bbit]

So what's the consensus on the Gay Lesbian and Bisexual Securities Exchange?

Am I gonna be rich?

Troll.

[buttcoin]

I get a good kick out of buttcoin.com its kind of like ED but for Bitcoins!

It's not .com it's .org 

[Xenland]

I get a good kick out of buttcoin.com its kind of like ED but for Bitcoins!

It's not .com it's .org 

oh thats why it says test when i go to .com LOL

[RandyFolds]

So what's the consensus on the Gay Lesbian and Bisexual Securities Exchange?

Am I gonna be rich?

Troll.

Man, you are such a wang.

[dishwara]

Dishwara: A Small Mining Company started as hobby
The “company” has already folded and is  selling all their equipment, buying back their shares and closing up shop.

No plan to return any investors money isn't enough for you? How about not returning investors money? Were you a proponent of Mybitcoin.com as well?

You contradicting your own statement?

In your blog you said DISHWARA buying back their shares & in the last post you said "No plan to return any investors money"

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoin_Consultancy

@buttcoin you haven't replied for my post.
You saying DISHWARA mining company is a scam?

[buttcoin1]

Yes. What was your failure plan?

[dishwara]

What you know about DISHWARA?
How you say its a scam?
How many shares of DISHWARA you bought ?
When you was scammed & you lost bitcoin by DISHWARA?

[GimmeDemBitz]

What you know about DISHWARA?
How you say its a scam?
How many shares of DISHWARA you bought ?
When you was scammed & you lost bitcoin by DISHWARA?

I can buy shares in a mid-90s alternative band?

TELL ME ALL YOUR THOUGHTS ON GOD.

[dishwara]

What you know about DISHWARA?
How you say its a scam?
How many shares of DISHWARA you bought ?
When you was scammed & you lost bitcoin by DISHWARA?

I can buy shares in a mid-90s alternative band?

TELL ME ALL YOUR THOUGHTS ON GOD.

TELL DIRECTLY.

[buttcoin1]

What you know about DISHWARA?
How you say its a scam?
How many shares of DISHWARA you bought ?
When you was scammed & you lost bitcoin by DISHWARA?

I know you live in the middle east and are one of the few to make money in this bitcoin phenomena. Yes, the scammers and MT Gox have made a ton of money.

You are in the club. Please tell me your secret.

[dishwara]

If you have gut gvie me your real name & address. I send you notice from lawyer for calling DISHWARA mining company a scam with out ANY EVIDENCE & defaming my reputation.
If you don't give your address then i am 100% sure, your mother got licked, sucked, fucked by a rotten RAT & gave birth to a rotten RAT called buttcoin1.

[buttcoin1]

You couldn't even afford to fix a motherboard and now you are going to server me toilet papers, from a real lawyer, in India?

[trentzb]

Oh, there are two buttcoins. Here is one of them:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=19744.msg278824#msg278824

[GimmeDemBitz]

You couldn't even afford to fix a motherboard and now you are going to server me toilet papers, from a real lawyer, in India?

Bitcoin:  the most incompetent internet detectives & internet lawyers, ever

[Rassah]

You couldn't even afford to fix a motherboard and now you are going to server me toilet papers, from a real lawyer, in India?

Bitcoin:  the most incompetent internet detectives & internet lawyers, ever

Sorry to defend lawyers, but I haven't seen a lawyer on here yet.

[bbit]

If you have gut gvie me your real name & address. I send you notice from lawyer for calling DISHWARA mining company a scam with out ANY EVIDENCE & defaming my reputation.
If you don't give your address then i am 100% sure, your mother got licked, sucked, fucked by a rotten RAT & gave birth to a rotten RAT called buttcoin1.

Maybe we can put out a bitcoin bounty to find the name + address of user "buttcoin" so you can serve him legal papers? There are some pretty tech savvy people around here, I bet somebody could track him down.

+1 I'm in on this bounty. This guy is doing damage to bitcoin community.  Also, anyone one else who wants to join him in getting served just post your home address and phone # below thank you. I mean I hate the spoil the fun you trolls are having but there are consequences to everything!

[bbit]

You couldn't even afford to fix a motherboard and now you are going to server me toilet papers, from a real lawyer, in India?

Bitcoin:  the most incompetent internet detectives & internet lawyers, ever

Sorry to defend lawyers, but I haven't seen a lawyer on here yet.

there is a whole lawyer thread on bitcoin you haven't seen it ?

[Xenland]

If you have gut gvie me your real name & address. I send you notice from lawyer for calling DISHWARA mining company a scam with out ANY EVIDENCE & defaming my reputation.
If you don't give your address then i am 100% sure, your mother got licked, sucked, fucked by a rotten RAT & gave birth to a rotten RAT called buttcoin1.

Maybe we can put out a bitcoin bounty to find the name + address of user "buttcoin" so you can serve him legal papers? There are some pretty tech savvy people around here, I bet somebody could track him down.

I believe someone already said the name somewhere in this forum

[buttcoin1]

F'yeah. I have groupies!

[RandyFolds]

If you have gut gvie me your real name & address. I send you notice from lawyer for calling DISHWARA mining company a scam with out ANY EVIDENCE & defaming my reputation.
If you don't give your address then i am 100% sure, your mother got licked, sucked, fucked by a rotten RAT & gave birth to a rotten RAT called buttcoin1.

Maybe we can put out a bitcoin bounty to find the name + address of user "buttcoin" so you can serve him legal papers? There are some pretty tech savvy people around here, I bet somebody could track him down.

Which would make you as big a douche as dishwara...

What legal papers would he be served with? From what jurisdiction?

Take your elementary school, "I'm gonna sue you!" somewhere else, cause it's just making you look like a mongoloid crybaby.

[RandyFolds]

If you have gut gvie me your real name & address. I send you notice from lawyer for calling DISHWARA mining company a scam with out ANY EVIDENCE & defaming my reputation.
If you don't give your address then i am 100% sure, your mother got licked, sucked, fucked by a rotten RAT & gave birth to a rotten RAT called buttcoin1.

Maybe we can put out a bitcoin bounty to find the name + address of user "buttcoin" so you can serve him legal papers? There are some pretty tech savvy people around here, I bet somebody could track him down.

+1 I'm in on this bounty. This guy is doing damage to bitcoin community.  Also, anyone one else who wants to join him in getting served just post your home address and phone # below thank you. I mean I hate the spoil the fun you trolls are having but there are consequences to everything!

What consequences? You do more damage to the bitcoin community by exemplifying the kind of 14-year-old twat that 'participates' in it. What have you done for bitcoin lately, besides bitch?

If I didn't think you were a little 4-chan kid, I would totally send my address and phone number to you, just to show you how very helpless and poor you are. A) You can't afford a lawyer, B) I have committed no crime, civil or otherwise.

[buttcoin1]

I have a perfect spot on my wall for legal papers in Hindu.

[bbit]

I have a perfect spot on my wall for legal papers in Hindu.

I heard they have a good spots in jail also. I'm sure bubba will love to hang out with someone named buttcoin.

[bbit]

If you have gut gvie me your real name & address. I send you notice from lawyer for calling DISHWARA mining company a scam with out ANY EVIDENCE & defaming my reputation.
If you don't give your address then i am 100% sure, your mother got licked, sucked, fucked by a rotten RAT & gave birth to a rotten RAT called buttcoin1.

Maybe we can put out a bitcoin bounty to find the name + address of user "buttcoin" so you can serve him legal papers? There are some pretty tech savvy people around here, I bet somebody could track him down.

Which would make you as big a douche as dishwara...

What legal papers would he be served with? From what jurisdiction?

Take your elementary school, "I'm gonna sue you!" somewhere else, cause it's just making you look like a mongoloid crybaby.

so how about it going to add yourself to the list or you going to keep talking smack ?

[buttcoin1]

so how about it going to add yourself to the list or you going to keep talking smack ?

You one of reasons I can't stay away from this forum, bbit.

Reading the bitcointalk forums - its like watching the Special Olympics!
Posting on the bitcointalk forums - its like training for the Special Olympics!

[bbit]

so how about it going to add yourself to the list or you going to keep talking smack ?

You one of reasons I can't stay away from this forum, bbit.

Reading the bitcointalk forums - its like watching the Special Olympics!
Posting on the bitcointalk forums - its like training for the Special Olympics!

lol

[Rassah]

You one of reasons I can't stay away from this forum, bbit.

Reading the bitcointalk forums - its like watching the Special Olympics!
Posting on the bitcointalk forums - its like training for the Special Olympics!

Oh, so true... 

[dishwara]

You couldn't even afford to fix a motherboard and now you are going to server me toilet papers, from a real lawyer, in India?

Insulting my country INDIA & my country lawyers that, they will serve toilet papers?
Good. So far you can't able to give your name & address. That proves your father is a rotten rat & fucked your mother & here you in the name of buttcoin1 - a rotten rat is trolling.
Maybe you will also have siblings, buttcoin2, buttcoin3.....
Hi, rotten rat.

[Rassah]

You couldn't even afford to fix a motherboard and now you are going to server me toilet papers, from a real lawyer, in India?

Insulting my country INDIA & my country lawyers that, they will serve toilet papers?
Good. So far you can't able to give your name & address. That proves your father is a rotten rat & fucked your mother & here you in the name of buttcoin1 - a rotten rat is trolling.
Maybe you will also have siblings, buttcoin2, buttcoin3.....
Hi, rotten rat.

So, wait, Bitcoin has finally made it into India? How's it doing there? Or is it still just barely doing anything there?

[trentzb]

You haven't been around long enough to witness dishwara's debut into the community. IMO he is still a good guy, just gets hot sometimes when attacked but still I value him as a community member.

[buttcoin1]

So, wait, Bitcoin has finally made it into India? How's it doing there? Or is it still just barely doing anything there?

You could always call 1-800-BUY-DELL and ask someone.

[WiseOldOwl]

Just to chime in,
1. GLBSE has a statement that says you could lose your shirt and that this is in testing etc.
2. It is still a small start up Bitcoin service, not some elaborate corporation you are so used to being babied by.
3. It is just that, a service. It provides a place for people to post investment opportunities and to invest. It really doesnt make any other guarantees.
4. Each share you own is a XML contract that states all the terms you are agreeing to. So it is on you to invest in a company with satisfactory terms. Which seems like it would need to be Disney or WalMart to meet your standards.
5. Like 95% of Businesses fail period, whether in bitcoin or reality.
6. I think Dishwara gave some money back im not sure. But I know for a Fact I returned some funds, and am actively refunding investors still.
7. Only speaking for BitFlow, we really tried to be a business and the mining fell out. It is pretty simple. Nobody made crazy money or anything. I dont think that much money has ever been spent through GLBSE.

Summary, you want there to be a long list of posts making statements against investing in bitcoin or related interests so that when people search and randomly get thrown into the bitcoin world through a link to your posts they are deterred from getting involved.

So Hopefully they read all the way to my post.

And realize you are a person who has been coddled by govt. intervention instituted to protect you from your caveman-like intelligence.

No names, the real trolls here know who I am talking too.

[GimmeDemBitz]

so how about it going to add yourself to the list or you going to keep talking smack ?

1060 West Addison, Chicago.  Come and get me.

You couldn't even afford to fix a motherboard and now you are going to server me toilet papers, from a real lawyer, in India?

Insulting my country INDIA & my country lawyers that, they will serve toilet papers?
Good. So far you can't able to give your name & address. That proves your father is a rotten rat & fucked your mother & here you in the name of buttcoin1 - a rotten rat is trolling.
Maybe you will also have siblings, buttcoin2, buttcoin3.....
Hi, rotten rat.

You know we don't have the caste system here, right?  Calling someone the son of rats isn't really a good burn.

STEP YO GAME UP.

[buttcoin1]

Just to chime in,
1. GLBSE has a statement that says you could lose your shirt and that this is in testing etc.
2. It is still a small start up Bitcoin service, not some elaborate corporation you are so used to being babied by.
3. It is just that, a service. It provides a place for people to post investment opportunities and to invest. It really doesnt make any other guarantees.
4. Each share you own is a XML contract that states all the terms you are agreeing to. So it is on you to invest in a company with satisfactory terms. Which seems like it would need to be Disney or WalMart to meet your standards.
5. Like 95% of Businesses fail period, whether in bitcoin or reality.
6. I think Dishwara gave some money back im not sure. But I know for a Fact I returned some funds, and am actively refunding investors still.
7. Only speaking for BitFlow, we really tried to be a business and the mining fell out. It is pretty simple. Nobody made crazy money or anything. I dont think that much money has ever been spent through GLBSE.

Summary, you want there to be a long list of posts making statements against investing in bitcoin or related interests so that when people search and randomly get thrown into the bitcoin world through a link to your posts they are deterred from getting involved.

So Hopefully they read all the way to my post.

And realize you are a person who has been coddled by govt. intervention instituted to protect you from your caveman-like intelligence.

No names, the real trolls here know who I am talking too.

1. No Rules
2. No Regulation
3. No Over site
4. No Accountability

The perfect way to get scammed. Apparently the Bitcoin economy loves this model until they do get scammed.

[Rassah]

1. No Rules
2. No Regulation
3. No Over site
4. No Accountability

The perfect way to get scammed. Apparently the Bitcoin economy loves this model until they do get scammed.

Likely no investments, either. We're not that stupid.  (<- yeah, I know, too easy. go ahead... -.- )

[buttcoin1]

Well Nefario is free to comment. Looks like he left to bitcoin.org.uk which has zero posts and is a dead forum.

[dishwara]

This thread has all the details about DISHWARA.
Since DISHWARA was announced to be closed, some additional details not added.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5750

So far bought back 202 shares out of 726 sold.

[WiseOldOwl]

So far bought back 202 shares out of 726 sold.

Good to hear!