WARNING: PAYPAL STARTED MASSIVE ACCOUNT BAN ON ANYTHING BITCOIN RELATED

[crazylikeafox]

You were selling a physical item that was perfectly allowed and they froze your money because they didn't like it...  How is that not illegal?

The Paypal user agreement allows them to hold your money for 6 months for any reason or no reason at all.  In addition, everytime you receive a chargeback, the 6 month clock starts over - so even 1 chargeback can techncially allow your money to be held for up to a year if it occurs at the end of the 6 month holding period. You agree to it when you open your account - you can't sue.

Here's an idea...WHY NOT USE BITCOIN FOR THESE TRANSACTIONS???

[seriouscoin]

Reality for you all kids thats screaming "LETS SUE"

1) Read every single words to the TEE of the service agreement.
2) All financial service providers have their right to terminate the relationship with you for WHATEVER reason they see fit. This apply to banks as well.

Go ahead and talk to a lawyer, i'm sure some lawyers would love to take money from suckers like you.

[NordicMoose]

There is someone else around here suing paypal for similar reasons. see if you can get in touch with them.

you cant sue paypal, you will get buried before getting to court.

No, you definetely have been victimised based on some dumb woman's incapacity rather than due to your breach of any plociy let alone law. PayPal were even thinking of adopting bitcoin as a means of payment. It didn't eventuate, but its CEO is a supporter of the idea, as is ebay who run Paypal anyway.

This is evidently due to her not understanding her own company's policy and I would advise reporting her to the relevant branch of PayPal. It is looking like a class action may need to be taken against either this woman or even PayPal itself if they refuse to retract over this matter if this startts happening to all bitcoiners.

Stick to your guns over this one, as the error lies with her not you. (Hope she loses her job over it.)

[NordicMoose]

Reality for you all kids thats screaming "LETS SUE"

1) Read every single words to the TEE of the service agreement.
2) All financial service providers have their right to terminate the relationship with you for WHATEVER reason they see fit. This apply to banks as well.

Go ahead and talk to a lawyer, i'm sure some lawyers would love to take money from suckers like you.

Lol. Always 1 in every forum sin't there?

[crazylikeafox]

There is someone else around here suing paypal for similar reasons. see if you can get in touch with them.

you cant sue paypal, you will get buried before getting to court.

No, you definetely have been victimised based on some dumb woman's incapacity rather than due to your breach of any plociy let alone law. PayPal were even thinking of adopting bitcoin as a means of payment. It didn't eventuate, but its CEO is a supporter of the idea, as is ebay who run Paypal anyway.

This is evidently due to her not understanding her own company's policy and I would advise reporting her to the relevant branch of PayPal. It is looking like a class action may need to be taken against either this woman or even PayPal itself if they refuse to retract over this matter if this startts happening to all bitcoiners.

Stick to your guns over this one, as the error lies with her not you. (Hope she loses her job over it.)

From the PayPal User Agreement:

"Payments received in your Account may be reversed at a later time, for example, if such a payment is subject to a Chargeback, Reversal, Claim or is otherwise invalidated. This means that for some of our Sellers, payments received into their Account may be returned to the sender or otherwise removed from their Account after they have been paid and/or delivered any goods or services sold....

We may close, suspend, or limit your access to your Account or the PayPal Services, and/or limit access to your Balance for up to 180 Days (or longer if pursuant to a court order or other legal process) if you violate this Agreement, the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, any other agreement you enter into with PayPal, or as otherwise specified in this Agreement or other agreement you have entered into with PayPal. We may also use proprietary fraud and risk modeling when assessing the risk associated with your Account..."

and my favorite part...

"....you acknowledge that PayPal’s decision to take certain actions, including limiting access to your Account by placing holds or imposing Reserves, may be based on confidential criteria that are essential to our management of risk and the security of Users’ Accounts and the PayPal system. You agree that PayPal is under no obligation to disclose the details of its risk management or security procedures to you."

[pungopete468]

Reality for you all kids thats screaming "LETS SUE"

1) Read every single words to the TEE of the service agreement.
2) All financial service providers have their right to terminate the relationship with you for WHATEVER reason they see fit. This apply to banks as well.

Go ahead and talk to a lawyer, i'm sure some lawyers would love to take money from suckers like you.

Not completely true:

1) not contesting this.

2) They have a right to terminate the relationship but they likely can't hold your money for such a long term and here's why...

Any contract which violates state or federal law will either be completely nullified or have the unlawful portion excluded. PayPal operates as a money transmitter service and is bound by state money transmitter laws. Each state establishes the maximum hold time but only two states would allow PayPal to hold funds for 180 days. (North Carolina or New Mexico)

PayPal is holding money in violation of State law and is liable for losses you may incur as a result of the hold as well as interest up to the amount which your state allows.

Basically you can't just make an illegal contract and use it as protection from liability when you break the law...

Find out what your state money transmittor laws permit and take the appropriate actions.

[pungopete468]

There is someone else around here suing paypal for similar reasons. see if you can get in touch with them.

you cant sue paypal, you will get buried before getting to court.

No, you definetely have been victimised based on some dumb woman's incapacity rather than due to your breach of any plociy let alone law. PayPal were even thinking of adopting bitcoin as a means of payment. It didn't eventuate, but its CEO is a supporter of the idea, as is ebay who run Paypal anyway.

This is evidently due to her not understanding her own company's policy and I would advise reporting her to the relevant branch of PayPal. It is looking like a class action may need to be taken against either this woman or even PayPal itself if they refuse to retract over this matter if this startts happening to all bitcoiners.

Stick to your guns over this one, as the error lies with her not you. (Hope she loses her job over it.)

From the PayPal User Agreement:

"Payments received in your Account may be reversed at a later time, for example, if such a payment is subject to a Chargeback, Reversal, Claim or is otherwise invalidated. This means that for some of our Sellers, payments received into their Account may be returned to the sender or otherwise removed from their Account after they have been paid and/or delivered any goods or services sold....

We may close, suspend, or limit your access to your Account or the PayPal Services, and/or limit access to your Balance for up to 180 Days (or longer if pursuant to a court order or other legal process) if you violate this Agreement, the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, any other agreement you enter into with PayPal, or as otherwise specified in this Agreement or other agreement you have entered into with PayPal. We may also use proprietary fraud and risk modeling when assessing the risk associated with your Account..."

This user agreement is not legally binding in all states! An illegal agreement is unenforceable regardless of it's content. PayPal can't violate a State law just because somebody else agreed to it.

[pungopete468]

I just came across this article...

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y11/m12/i16/s01

[crazylikeafox]

This user agreement is not legally binding in all states! An illegal agreement is unenforceable regardless of it's content. PayPal can't violate a State law just because somebody else agreed to it.

I'm guessing that PayPal, and their phalanx of some of the brightest legal minds on planet earth, disagree with you.  They are served with lawsuits over this very issue every single day, and essentially never lose.   Based upon this, I'm guessing that they this document is legally sound.

Here's an idea...since this is a Bitcoin forum and all...let's actually USE BITCOIN.

[seriouscoin]

Reality for you all kids thats screaming "LETS SUE"

1) Read every single words to the TEE of the service agreement.
2) All financial service providers have their right to terminate the relationship with you for WHATEVER reason they see fit. This apply to banks as well.

Go ahead and talk to a lawyer, i'm sure some lawyers would love to take money from suckers like you.

Not completely true:

1) not contesting this.

2) They have a right to terminate the relationship but they likely can't hold your money for such a long term and here's why...

Any contract which violates state or federal law will either be completely nullified or have the unlawful portion excluded. PayPal operates as a money transmitter service and is bound by state money transmitter laws. Each state establishes the maximum hold time but only two states would allow PayPal to hold funds for 180 days. (North Carolina or New Mexico)

PayPal is holding money in violation of State law and is liable for losses you may incur as a result of the hold as well as interest up to the amount which your state allows.

Basically you can't just make an illegal contract and use it as protection from liability when you break the law...

Find out what your state money transmittor laws permit and take the appropriate actions.

My comment has nothing to do with holding the fund. Its simply just about service termination. Banks also do that ALL the time (actually more than paypal i would say). Once they deem you as high risk, boom they close your account without giving you any reason.

Seems like the kids on here only yell "sue sue sue" just because paypal decided not dealing with anything related to bitcoin, go ahead and sue them.

[d(o_o)b]

Congratulations Paypal.

You've just publicly admitted - 'Oh F*ck we're obsolete!'

This is what makes Bitcoin invincible - I'm in BECAUSE those assclowns will HURT when they LOSE my business

[pungopete468]

This user agreement is not legally binding in all states! An illegal agreement is unenforceable regardless of it's content. PayPal can't violate a State law just because somebody else agreed to it.

I'm guessing that PayPal, and their phalanx of some of the brightest legal minds on planet earth, disagree with you.  They are served with lawsuits over this very issue every single day, and essentially never lose.   Based upon this, I'm guessing that they this document is legally sound.

Here's an idea...since this is a Bitcoin forum and all...let's actually USE BITCOIN.

I love that argument... "They have lawyers so they can't break the law."
 
To settle a case is not to win it nor to lose it...

Have you researched the law of your state? Unless you live in North Carolina or New Mexico this agreement is likely a violation of state law...

[pungopete468]

Reality for you all kids thats screaming "LETS SUE"

1) Read every single words to the TEE of the service agreement.
2) All financial service providers have their right to terminate the relationship with you for WHATEVER reason they see fit. This apply to banks as well.

Go ahead and talk to a lawyer, i'm sure some lawyers would love to take money from suckers like you.

Not completely true:

1) not contesting this.

2) They have a right to terminate the relationship but they likely can't hold your money for such a long term and here's why...

Any contract which violates state or federal law will either be completely nullified or have the unlawful portion excluded. PayPal operates as a money transmitter service and is bound by state money transmitter laws. Each state establishes the maximum hold time but only two states would allow PayPal to hold funds for 180 days. (North Carolina or New Mexico)

PayPal is holding money in violation of State law and is liable for losses you may incur as a result of the hold as well as interest up to the amount which your state allows.

Basically you can't just make an illegal contract and use it as protection from liability when you break the law...

Find out what your state money transmittor laws permit and take the appropriate actions.

My comment has nothing to do with holding the fund. Its simply just about service termination. Banks also do that ALL the time (actually more than paypal i would say). Once they deem you as high risk, boom they close your account without giving you any reason.

Seems like the kids on here only yell "sue sue sue" just because paypal decided not dealing with anything related to bitcoin, go ahead and sue them.

Gotcha... People will sue for anything these days.

In this case however; the legal basis for the lawsuit is for damages resulting from financial loss because PayPal is knowingly violating State money transmittor laws.

[crazylikeafox]

I love that argument... "They have lawyers so they can't break the law."

I said nothing of the sort.  I said that PayPal has emerged victorious in virtually every lawsuit filed against it.  Whether or not we like that, it means that their user agreements are legally sound.  I'm no fan of PayPal, but I am a fan of not wasting time and energy filing lawsuits that have no legal merit.

Bitcoin was created precisely to solve these problems.  If we are all such believers in Bitcoin that we are actively participating in a Bitcoin forum, perhaps we should actually use them for commerce instead of trying to argue with an old-economy company that will trounce us in court.  The more people that accept Bitcoin for payment, the better it is for Bitcoin and the faster PayPal will crumble.

[vadoff]

This is incorrect. The CEO of PayPal David Marcus has already denied these claims:

    To clarify: we have no policies against using PayPal to sell Bitcoin mining rigs.
    We don't support any currency txn whether fiat or BTC for a host of regulatory
    issues. But we treat BTC and any FX txn the same way. We're believers in
    BTC though.

There was a communication error in January but it was retracted within hours: https://i.imgur.com/GMC0fsd.png

https://twitter.com/davidmarcus/status/422632561882316800

https://twitter.com/davidmarcus/status/422632849670299648

So at the very least mining rigs are okay to sell.

[khaya13]

I have a problem with my money being held in liqpay account who can I report this problem to. please help

[a4fire]

In my country Paypal adoption didnt even started yet, you can send money but not receive. I know many people who were waiting for that to happen, but now Im glad that Bitcoin will allow to skip that stage. After all soon merchants will massively start post their data on results of Bitcoin purchases, it seems that it would definitely hit Paypals bussines where they care the most - ecommerce, becouse it might look like this one^

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/05/amazing-results-retailer-australia-started-accepting-bitcoin-6-months-ago/

[zolace]

In my country Paypal adoption didnt even started yet, you can send money but not receive. I know many people who were waiting for that to happen, but now Im glad that Bitcoin will allow to skip that stage. After all soon merchants will massively start post their data on results of Bitcoin purchases, it seems that it would definitely hit Paypals bussines where they care the most - ecommerce, becouse it might look like this one^

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2014/02/05/amazing-results-retailer-australia-started-accepting-bitcoin-6-months-ago/

Someone should now ask the CEO David Marcus about the new policy against bitcoin, till say what he says now about it.  A change of heart, or he just said he liked it so he cannot look like one of the greedy bad guys.  Everyone who has a paypal account or ebay account stop trading on eBay. Dont buy from them.

[deadweasel]

If this is a surprise, you did not do your due diligence.  Paypal has acted this way for a decade for less risky items than BTC.

Ebay, ok.  Paypal, wtf people?

[canopus]

make 10 businness accounts with high limites on paypal and everything is OK :...... tralalalalallala