Why are you not at Wall Street?

[Anonymous]

I think all of that, all revolutions around the world, are actually a anti-UN thing, but people do not realize that now...

If they ever succeed, by taking apart the fiat financial system, this will tank central banks, and thus world bank, and thus UN...

When THAT happen, then history will record that people fought against the UN... (even if they had no idea about that)

Why do you think the UN instigated the conflicts in Somalia and most of the third-world? They want control. In the words of Alex Jones, it's a globalist conspiracy.

[Rarity]

You realize Alex Jones thinks the government was involved in the Oklahoma City Bombing and 9/11, right?  He is not exactly the person you should be going to for information on the United Nations.

Now it is true that there is a ton of pseudo-colonial involvement with the third world but the objective is generally reflective of the individual agendas of the permanent Security Council members.  In claiming a united quest for control among the UN you have to believe that nations like the United States, China, France, and Russia see each other as partners rather than rivals.  They all seek to best exploit the third world for their own benefit, not that of the UN.

The only solution to this exploitation of course is Marxist revolution in the third world which would likely eventually result in world powers uniting against the people of the world, but we aren't there yet. 

[Anonymous]

The only solution to this exploitation of course is Marxist revolution in the third world which would likely eventually result in world powers uniting against the people of the world, but we aren't there yet.  

The UN and all those nations serve the interests of the ones who control their wealth. They are not even subordinate to their own purported sovereignty. There is no incentive for them to be. It all lies in our central banking system. You have to look where the money flows. The true rulers are not our politicians nor other readily apparent organizations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_revolts

History only shows the creation of greater power vacuums in the face of said Marxist revolutions. I think that's the worst thing that could happen. It would be complete surrender in your preferred case.

[netrin]

This man is trying to educate. Don't be against the protesters. They may not know why they are frustrated. But they are on the streets. Help them!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZmPWcLQ1Mk

[Rarity]

The only solution to this exploitation of course is Marxist revolution in the third world which would likely eventually result in world powers uniting against the people of the world, but we aren't there yet.  

The UN and all those nations serve the interests of the ones who control their wealth. They are not even subordinate to their own purported sovereignty. There is no incentive for them to be. It all lies in our central banking system. You have to look where the money flows. The true rulers are not our politicians nor other readily apparent organizations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_revolts

History only shows the creation of greater power vacuums in the face of said Marxist revolutions. I think that's the worst thing that could happen. It would be complete surrender in your preferred case.

Marxist revolutions have generally failed to achieve their goals and instead result in totalitarianism, but they are still the only and best hope.  How can you complain about the influence of the rich and support a system that will allow them to continue to hold their wealth?  No new set of rich people will be any less corrupt.

Why do I feel communism can work this time?  Simple.  Bitcoin.  It puts the means of currency production in the hands of the people and provides for a transparent log of all transactions.  Nobody will be able to horde wealth without being noticed so the proper redistribution will always be possible.  

I've always found it amusing that libertarians have become attracted to such a powerful tool for the left.  I wouldn't be surprised to find out Satoshi's favorite shirt features this guy:

[speeder]

UN never served the nations that theoretically control it.

UN was ALWAYS about the unified central banking system, and it is ran by the financial system itself, and all those that profit from it (or think that they profit from it).

I am well aware of how UN meddles with stuff, and how it works, UN is anti-libertarian and anti-minarchist, it has in his "human rights" declaration a brainwashing article for example...

[LoupGaroux]

I'll take a million hippie protestors over one guy who already sounds like a 90-year-old Andy Rooney at age 20.

Actually Andy wishes he had someone as polysyllabic as me to write for him. And, for the record... I actually am approaching legitimate curmudgeon status in my 50's, so accusing me of sounding like a 90 year while 20, is just a further validation of my point, this pack of worthless half-wits running around in search of an agenda doesn't have a point OR a voice.

Oh yeah, and they do have a large list of demands that the media has mostly ignored. The media has also left interviews with intelligent protesters on the cutting room floor in favor of airing the comments of the biggest idiots they can find. I wonder why...

Large list of demands??? Just who the hell do they think they are demanding from? "Wall Street" Is Mr. Corporate Q. Greed going to fund their little fantasyland of demanding shit from others? Who is going to kowtow to their oh so freaking scary list of demands? They are as bad as that jack-off in the White House with his hopey changey horse shit. You want something, man up and come and take it, don't drone on like some Beat Poet about demanding it. Yeah abolish all the banks, kill the rich, turn the UN building into low income housing, whatever. None of their agenda makes any sense. It is a bunch of whiners who have come up with a manifesto of lowest common denominators and would be dreamlike pie in the sky stupidity.

Unemployment insurance for life. Okay, where is the incentive for anyone to work to support that idea?
One payer health insurance, and outlaw private insurance agencies. Swell, who is going to run it, and more importantly, who is going to pay for it when everyone gets to be on unemployment for life?
Free college educations for everyone. Nice. I bet there is a whole village full of Somali khat chewing fuck-wit narco-pirates who would love to sit next to you at NYU and study Militant Feminist Underwater Basket Weaving, but the endgame would be just a whole lot more unemployable lumps of waste. Besides, who needs an education when they have free health care and unemployment? Fuck it, stay stupid and angry, sleeping on the sidewalk.
Guaranteed $20 per hour minimum wage with no tax liability. My guess would be that they mean this for the privileged class of proles in the US, and not as a world wide phenomenon, because that much disruption to  Third World economies is beyond even the scope of the Fantasy Island insanity being espoused on their website.

And I will stipulate that the mainstream media sucks. They live for ratings in a world governed by consumer special interests driven by the reality show mentality of cretins dreaming that banging a Kardashian is something to aspire to. Pretty much everything is digital now, so there is nothing to leave on the editing room floor, but your point is valid, the media does skew what we see on their broadcasts. That's the nature of propaganda, it gives you the version they want to shove down your throat. But what would a 24/7 live webcast from Wall Street Ground Zero show you? A filthy pack of losers who have found a fun scam to run flogging the donation sympathy card to get free pizzas delivered to their little patch of anarchist heaven. If they owned one collection set of balls throughout the whole movement, they would already be taking massive and direct action. This is a precious little media circus, by idiots, for idiots. Real protesters would not have wasted time tweeting this shit or updating their Facebook status to show their friends list how vital and edgy they are, they would raised the cry of Aux Barricades, sang the Internationale and gotten on with the revolution. Occupy Wall Street with barricades, Molotov cocktails and stolen APC's, not with a mailing list and the safety of mommy and daddy's credit card in your pocket to get a ticket home if it starts to rain. The Tree of Liberty is planted with the barrel of a gun, and watered with the blood of the oppressors.

Pansies.

[Rarity]

People are more likely to work when they have a safety net.  For instance they will be more willing to take risks and start their own businesses when they don't risk losing their homes if they fail.

In general people crave a bit more than a minimum standard of living.  Everyone would work at McDonald's if they just wanted to survive, but guess what, most people strive for something more.  Why do you think people are protesting about their college debt?  They didn't go into debt to play video games all day, that did it to find fulfilling work and contribute to the economy and their country.  The only reason they aren't is that the rich entrenched powers crashed the economy and created systemic unemployment that can't be solved with everyone individually bootstrapping.  Someone is going to be left by the wayside when demand is so low.

[Rarity]

Heestury oonly shoos zee creeshun ooff greeter pooer fecooooms in zee fece-a ooff seeed Merxeest refulooshuns. Um gesh dee bork, bork! I theenk thet's zee vurst theeng thet cuoold heppee. It vuoold be-a cumplete-a soorrender in yuoor prefferred cese-a.

That is a good point, but as I mentioned above Bitcoin is the key ingredient of change for the 21st century revolutionary.  A faction will have great difficulty consolidating power out of the vacuum when the creation and distribution of wealth is controlled by the people via their own currency.  We will finally control our own fate and have the environment to do it right this time.

I'm glad you decided to drop the Alex Jones stuff in favor of really looking at the issue, it makes the discussion a lot more coherent this way.

[Rarity]

The people are definitely not sheep.  These protests are just another sign of the end of the era of corporate media dominance.  Everyone can get their information from online sources, from the people.  For some that will be DailyKos, for other's it will be Free Republic, but either way it's from the people for the people. 

Believe me, I work in public relations so I know how easy it is to sell a message with a captive audience, but that job is getting harder and harder as the years go by.  Communication was simply the first step in the revolution.  Bitcoin is going to make sure that economics is the next.  Why do we need American middlemen to leech profit from Chinese workers when we could buy from them directly via the Internet and Bitcoin?  First we shall free ourselves from our own oppressive governments, and next we will build a new global egalitarian order.

[Rarity]

Of course in the current state it seems divided, but this situation is in its last throes.  They tried Obama and they failed to get change, they will try a Republican next and fail to get change.  At some point the people will realize the status quo system cannot provide the results they want and they will tear it down together.  It's not coincidence these protests, like the tea party, have anger over the bank bailouts as a central issue.  The people know who to blame, and they know these banks need to be allowed to fail when they fail in the market.  Only once the imaginary fiat money stops being pumped into them can this happen.  Bitcoin is key in making this occur.

[PatrickHarnett]

There is an argument that the faster the USA fails, the better the world will be.  However, more realistically, in an effort to balance the US budget, the "nice to haves" like the $550billion/year on defense and waging war around the world might have to be put on the back-burner.  $240billion a year on that bloated debt appetite might also need a bit of fixing.

Total revenue   $2.17 trillion (estimated)
Total expenditures   $3.82 trillion (estimated)
figures for 2011 federal budget

[pekv2]

Let me start off with, I have nothing against protestors. I would like to know. I seen a protestor speak for a reporter, "maybe cnn", I am sure there are others but the one that spoke for a reporter said he is from Madison, Wisconsin, has no job, no income at all, but he had taken a bus from Madison, Wisconsin to New York. How are these poor folks affording tickets for bus's, planes, transportation? And how do you expect that someone is on the brink of losing their home and other stuff that they own, get the money up for transportation to go protest? Even being remotely close to New York, fuel is high as it is already, ionno.

[Rarity]

Most people there are from New York or the surrounding states.  It's the most densely populated area of the country and has great public transport.  It's not an issue to get there.

[RandyFolds]

Let me start off with, I have nothing against protestors. I would like to know. I seen a protestor speak for a reporter, "maybe cnn", I am sure there are others but the one that spoke for a reporter said he is from Madison, Wisconsin, has no job, no income at all, but he had taken a bus from Madison, Wisconsin to New York. How are these poor folks affording tickets for bus's, planes, transportation? And how do you expect that someone is on the brink of losing their home and other stuff that they own, get the money up for transportation to go protest? Even being remotely close to New York, fuel is high as it is already, ionno.

Being a bum makes it a lot easier to go be a bum somewhere else. They have no jobs or homes or incomes, hence their ability to sit and stink up wall street for three weeks.

[netrin]

There is an argument that the faster the USA fails, the better the world will be.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Strauss-Kahn+Dollar+SDR

[LoupGaroux]

@Rarity- I love your positive world view. Of course everyone wants to work their happy little butts off so the massive centralized planners can decide how much fruit of your labor you get. That's just human nature right? Altruism is the only truism? I can see millions of earnest good souls who just can't wait to realize their entrepreneurial dreams to produce their widgets for GovCentral to tell them where to ship, what price they can charge, what perfectly diverse workforce they must pay a living wage to and how much they can keep at the end of the day.

Yup, that's a motivator all right.

If any one of the "activists" or "community organizers" that is staging occwallst really, genuinely had that spirit at heart why are they not producing something and giving it to those who are more needy? How many starving Somali babies are they feeding with those tasty slices of NY pie they are having delivered to Protest Ground Zero compliments of sympathizers using their parent's credit cards? Hey- here's an idea, instead of sleeping on the pavement and trying to become a media darling, howzabout grabbing some of that moveon.org cash, buying a ticket to Burkina Faso and helping dig wells to provide drinking water for children so they can live without the constant threat of dysentery? What about donating the cash spent on a Greyhound ticket from Madison to New York to a micro farmer's collective in Duchity, Haiti so they can buy a coffee roaster and increase the revenue for their coffee beans from $0.05 per pound to $1.15 per pound on the Fair Trade market? How about demanding that all of the salaries being paid to the slobbering news crews that are covering the farce be used to provide job training for the widows of Appalachian mining disasters? Heck, why not jump on the bus to the left coast and get one of those jobs "that you white people don't want to do" bringing the harvest in, so we can feed people with affordable, nutritious home-grown produce?

Why not do any of those things? Because it isn't about helping other people really, it is about getting attention. It is about carrying on in a juvenile fashion and trying to sound like you know something so people will listen to your bitching about what you want for free, all the benefits you want to suck out of society without giving anything back, and how much you can have taken from other people's labor, sweat and effort and have it given to you for nothing.

Know why collectivism fails, always has and always will? Because deep down in the core of our souls we aren't hardwired to kill ourselves for the other guy. Nope, our Darwinian selection process carved out this particular historical niche for a species that actually wants to care for it's own young before the whining curs in the cave next door. I would rather kill the sabre tooth tiger and make my mate a coat out of it's extinct ass before I make a coat and give it to you or anybody else who isn't willing to go out and hunt the damn thing. That's what we are, that is the essence of being human. We made the trip from primordial slop to bitcoins because it makes infinitely more species protective sense to care for ourselves and our own before we give a rat's ass about the other competitors for a finite amount of resources.

Chin up Bucky... you still have a few months left with the leftist princesses in power in Washington, they will find a way to grab some more loot for their buddies in the unions and nationalize a couple of more industries to make sure that the investor class knows they were well and truly screwed by the left. And then, thankfully, we can look for the purifying fire of righteousness from the right, and all of these arguments get turned 180 degrees into bizarro universe and we all switch sides in the debate.

[Rarity]

If any one of the "activists" or "community organizers" that is staging occwallst really, genuinely had that spirit at heart why are they not producing something and giving it to those who are more needy?

It's a lot harder when you are forced into indentured servitude by corporate greed, it forbids people from doing what they truely desire.  Everyone has a hierarchy of needs that must be fufilled before they can go on to greater things.  The examples of near socialist states like Germany that retain strong economic productivity and union activity while not facing the same unemployment issues as are present in the US is a great example.

Nobody needs middlemen in suits to leech out their economic worth, it's a shame that they have chained you into such mental slavery when there is a whole new world out there to be discovered and you can't even see it.  My parents are quite wealthy and sent me to expensive schools, I never had to work a day in my life if I didn't want to but I decided to follow my passion and contribute to my fellow man.  All I want to do is share that same oppurtunity with the rest of the world instead of leaving the poor at the mercy of greedy corporate machines.

[rainingbitcoins]

If any one of the "activists" or "community organizers" that is staging occwallst really, genuinely had that spirit at heart why are they not producing something and giving it to those who are more needy? How many starving Somali babies are they feeding with those tasty slices of NY pie they are having delivered to Protest Ground Zero compliments of sympathizers using their parent's credit cards? Hey- here's an idea, instead of sleeping on the pavement and trying to become a media darling, howzabout grabbing some of that moveon.org cash, buying a ticket to Burkina Faso and helping dig wells to provide drinking water for children so they can live without the constant threat of dysentery? What about donating the cash spent on a Greyhound ticket from Madison to New York to a micro farmer's collective in Duchity, Haiti so they can buy a coffee roaster and increase the revenue for their coffee beans from $0.05 per pound to $1.15 per pound on the Fair Trade market? How about demanding that all of the salaries being paid to the slobbering news crews that are covering the farce be used to provide job training for the widows of Appalachian mining disasters? Heck, why not jump on the bus to the left coast and get one of those jobs "that you white people don't want to do" bringing the harvest in, so we can feed people with affordable, nutritious home-grown produce?

Why not do any of those things? Because it isn't about helping other people really, it is about getting attention. It is about carrying on in a juvenile fashion and trying to sound like you know something so people will listen to your bitching about what you want for free, all the benefits you want to suck out of society without giving anything back, and how much you can have taken from other people's labor, sweat and effort and have it given to you for nothing.

That the protestors don't give up every single thing they have for charity hardly makes their points invalid or has anything to do with anything, really. If they really want to tear down the system, why is it their moral responsibility to keep slapping band-aids on the old system? How the hell does that make sense?

Know why collectivism fails, always has and always will? Because deep down in the core of our souls we aren't hardwired to kill ourselves for the other guy. Nope, our Darwinian selection process carved out this particular historical niche for a species that actually wants to care for it's own young before the whining curs in the cave next door. I would rather kill the sabre tooth tiger and make my mate a coat out of it's extinct ass before I make a coat and give it to you or anybody else who isn't willing to go out and hunt the damn thing. That's what we are, that is the essence of being human. We made the trip from primordial slop to bitcoins because it makes infinitely more species protective sense to care for ourselves and our own before we give a rat's ass about the other competitors for a finite amount of resources.

It's not about caring for others rather than caring for your own. It's about caring for others instead of buying your already-cared-for family a new yacht.

you still have a few months left with the leftist princesses in power in Washington,

Oh wait, I figured out the problem. You have literally no idea what a leftist is.

[LoupGaroux]

 All I want to do is share that same oppurtunity with the rest of the world instead of leaving the poor at the mercy of greedy corporate machines.

How is it an oppurtunity (sic) when you want to impose your will and belief system on others? Regardless of how noble it might feel to you, it is slavery when you compel the actions of others through your actions. Forgive me for not wanting to be a slave to your vision.

That the protestors don't give up every single thing they have for charity hardly makes their points invalid or has anything to do with anything, really. If they really want to tear down the system, why is it their moral responsibility to keep slapping band-aids on the old system? How the hell does that make sense?

It makes sense to act, not talk. If there is need, provide a solution, don't spend your life looking to tell us what we already know. Perhaps the "old system" doesn't need band-aids, it needs genuine effort, instead of spending time and resources accommodating noisy brats who need to be noticed but don't really want to accomplish anything other than talk about how important they are.
 

It's not about caring for others rather than caring for your own. It's about caring for others instead of buying your already-cared-for family a new yacht.

While I'm sure that in your world the enemy always buys yachts in lieu of bowing to your will and sense of compassion for your fellow man, in the real world you are comparing anvils to heads of lettuce. While the rhetorical attempt at drama by using the straw man of a yacht is obvious (and rather trite) the point you are trying to make is that you believe that we need some over-arching authority figure that decides how much is enough for any given individual, for any given family, community or state. That the dictatorship of the masses, through their benevolence, will be better able to provide for all by compelling all activity, and controlling all results, while eliminating personal inspiration, desire, and freedom.

Okay, I get that. You embrace that. Swell. I resist it. With every fiber of my being. With each thought, with every word, with every effort I can make, I will resist your imposition of your will over mine. Your freedom to dream and to act on your world view ends at the border of my freedom to dream and act on my world view. When you talk of goodness and light and compassion you cannot force that behavior from others just because you think it is better, because you take away all that is goodness, light and compassion for them. You destroy what you seek to embrace by the very act of compulsion.

Oh wait, I figured out the problem. You have literally no idea what a leftist is.

Ah, child if only you knew how wrong that is. Far worse than just being an ignorant reactionary, I am your very worst demon, I am the revolutionary who went so deep into the cause that I saw the fallacy at the core of the philosophy and came out the other side, reformed and reborn with the same revolutionary fire, just understanding it so much more. Forcing your will upon others is nothing short of embracing the spirit of the enemy. The naifs on the sidewalk are proto-Stalinists, they are wreckers, and they are fools. Look beyond and discover the truth of individual freedom. The "Left" is delusional, because they are puppets. Sad, pathetic marionettes dancing when the unions and the their privileged leaders play the strings. Wrap it in as much moral whole cloth as you want, it is still puppetry.