Why are you not at Wall Street?

[The Script]

@rainman? Troll? Really?

Yeah, you're way too over-the-top, man. Either troll or the best customer Silk Road has ever seen.

But for what it's worth:

What motivation does your system even provide to someone to be a medical student

Cuba actually has the second-highest doctor-to-patient ratio in the world (170-to-1).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4583668.stm

What if Cuba's medical professionals decide to follow in the footsteps of several Cuban sport stars who in the past have gone to the US, lured by substantial financial rewards.

"We know that in the US scientists are highly paid. I receive only 665 pesos a month (less than US$40)," observes Dr Perez.

But "we work in a environment of fulfilment and innovation", he says, pointing towards a laboratory full of scientists.

"You are free to interview any of them.

"We are highly motivated, not by money and commercial profit, but by a commitment to saving lives. We have not lost any of them. Nobody has defected to the US."

Cuba is tied with the U.S. for #36 in the world in life expectancy at 78.3 years according to U.N. figures. To get that number, we spend over $7500 per capita (stat is from 2008, so it's risen a fair bit since then) to insure about 70% of our population. Cuba pays $1200 per capita to treat all of their people.

Come now.  There are two sides to every story.  I suppose you watched the Michael Moore film where he took sick Americans to the "average" Cuban hospital (the ones reserved for the elites).  Stossel exposes this very nicely:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZH1ps20WA

Also check out http://therealcuba.com/index.htm to get the facts on what is really going on in Cuba.  Look at the pictures of the real Cuban hospitals and tell me you still think they have superior health care.  The UN simply reported the statistics that the Cuban government gave them.

[1714883249]

1714883249

[rainingbitcoins]

Come now.  There are two sides to every story.  I suppose you watched the Michael Moore film where he took sick Americans to the "average" Cuban hospital (the ones reserved for the elites).  Stossel exposes this very nicely:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZH1ps20WA

Also check out http://therealcuba.com/index.htm to get the facts on what is really going on in Cuba.  Look at the pictures of the real Cuban hospitals and tell me you still think they have superior health care.  The UN simply reported the statistics that the Cuban government gave them.

I guess they fooled the BBC, too, huh? And the CIA, whose World Fact Book lists very similar life expectancy numbers as the U.N.  Those wily Cubans. Probably revenge for trying to assassinate their president so many times.

I haven't seen a Michael Moore movie since the late '90s, but good job citing John Stossel. No bias there, no siree.

Anyway, I have no health insurance. Any doctor is better than what I've got because I have none. I work full time and my employer doesn't even offer insurance, and I could never afford it on my wages if I still wanted to be able to eat. God bless America and God bless capitalism!

[JeffK]

@rainman? Troll? Really?

Yeah, you're way too over-the-top, man. Either troll or the best customer Silk Road has ever seen.

But for what it's worth:

What motivation does your system even provide to someone to be a medical student

Cuba actually has the second-highest doctor-to-patient ratio in the world (170-to-1).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4583668.stm

What if Cuba's medical professionals decide to follow in the footsteps of several Cuban sport stars who in the past have gone to the US, lured by substantial financial rewards.

"We know that in the US scientists are highly paid. I receive only 665 pesos a month (less than US$40)," observes Dr Perez.

But "we work in a environment of fulfilment and innovation", he says, pointing towards a laboratory full of scientists.

"You are free to interview any of them.

"We are highly motivated, not by money and commercial profit, but by a commitment to saving lives. We have not lost any of them. Nobody has defected to the US."

Cuba is tied with the U.S. for #36 in the world in life expectancy at 78.3 years according to U.N. figures. To get that number, we spend over $7500 per capita (stat is from 2008, so it's risen a fair bit since then) to insure about 70% of our population. Cuba pays $1200 per capita to treat all of their people.

Come now.  There are two sides to every story.  I suppose you watched the Michael Moore film where he took sick Americans to the "average" Cuban hospital (the ones reserved for the elites).  Stossel exposes this very nicely:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZH1ps20WA

Also check out http://therealcuba.com/index.htm to get the facts on what is really going on in Cuba.  Look at the pictures of the real Cuban hospitals and tell me you still think they have superior health care.  The UN simply reported the statistics that the Cuban government gave them.

Stossel is hilariously disingenuous, and you have to realize that for a large portion on uninsured Americans, ANY DOCTOR is better that what they have (none)

[The Script]

Come now.  There are two sides to every story.  I suppose you watched the Michael Moore film where he took sick Americans to the "average" Cuban hospital (the ones reserved for the elites).  Stossel exposes this very nicely:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZH1ps20WA

Also check out http://therealcuba.com/index.htm to get the facts on what is really going on in Cuba.  Look at the pictures of the real Cuban hospitals and tell me you still think they have superior health care.  The UN simply reported the statistics that the Cuban government gave them.

I guess they fooled the BBC, too, huh? And the CIA, whose World Fact Book lists very similar life expectancy numbers as the U.N.  Those wily Cubans. Probably revenge for trying to assassinate their president so many times.

I haven't seen a Michael Moore movie since the late '90s, but good job citing John Stossel. No bias there, no siree.

So Stossel isn't a legitimate source but Cuban doctors are?  It's not like they don't have an incentive to not be beaten or thrown in jail for saying bad things about Cuba's health care.  Did you watch the part about how the numbers are skewed because they just abort children who will have health issues and don't count them in the statistics?

Also, please don't confuse my lack of support for socialized health care to equate to support for CIA covert action against the Castros.

Anyway, I have no health insurance. Any doctor is better than what I've got because I have none. I work full time and my employer doesn't even offer insurance, and I could never afford it on my wages if I still wanted to be able to eat. God bless America and God bless capitalism!

So....?  Did I say I support the current US health care system?  It's not an example of capitalism.

[rainingbitcoins]

So Stossel isn't a legitimate source but Cuban doctors are?  It's not like they don't have an incentive to not be beaten or thrown in jail for saying bad things about Cuba's health care.  Did you watch the part about how the numbers are skewed because they just abort children who will have health issues and don't count them in the statistics?

John Stossel has a long history of saying just about any crazy old thing if it agrees with his libertarian views, including global warming denialism.

Here's Castro speaking out against higher-than-average abortion rates in Cuba:
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/10/17/180314.shtml

So according to Stossel, he's fighting against his own policies? And this monstrous crime of forced abortion also somehow isn't mentioned in U.N. reports or by human rights organizations?

This is the guy you get your facts from. No wonder you're so mixed-up. Go read a book.

So....?  Did I say I support the current US health care system?  It's not an example of capitalism.

I'm getting really tired of capitalist No True Scotsman. Nothing is ever an example of capitalism when it hurts your cause, is it? That's okay. I'm sure the same people who cut cancer patients off their insurance programs to save money will turn into true humanists as soon as you reduce their taxes enough.

But if Cuba is too much of a hot-button-issue country, we could always check out the UHC situation in European countries, nearly all of which pay half or less per capita to insure 100% of their people as we do to insurance 70%.

So what we have here are socialized systems providing a high standard of care for far cheaper than our privatized system (even if it isn't privatized enough for the people who think we should have private roads and no traffic laws) and apparently your answer to that is even further privatization. Because the thing about capitalism is that it gets more brutal to its workers, the environment and everything else the more you deregulate it, but the second you take away that very last regulation, it turns into a utopia and sociopath CEOs turn into care bears. It still hurts my head that people think like this.

[rainingbitcoins]

Hear hear. I'm not changing the US by sitting on a street. Moving to Korea had a bigger impact thsn I could ever make by being a sociopath hippie since I've dropped $300k into business here and not the US.

I'm changing America by moving to Korea. Also, those people who actually care enough to try and do anything they can, no matter how seemingly futile? They're the real sociopaths.

[RandyFolds]

Hear hear. I'm not changing the US by sitting on a street. Moving to Korea had a bigger impact thsn I could ever make by being a sociopath hippie since I've dropped $300k into business here and not the US.

I'm changing America by moving to Korea. Also, those people who actually care enough to try and do anything they can, no matter how seemingly futile? They're the real sociopaths.

No you're not, you are fleeing America to one of its sock puppet states.

[BitcoinPorn]

Not sure if to make a new thread on this, but at least put this here for you guys to share if you want

"Basics of Bitcoin" Classes to begin this coming Saturday at Occupy
Wall Street http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin
 
We will teach all about Bitcoin
 
-- What it is
-- Why you might use it
-- Where and how you might buy it
-- The reasons why it is so relevant to this Occupy Wall Street
movement and the entire world
 
Located very near the Occupy Wall Street encampment to make it easy
for Occupiers to attend.
 
 
 
Also, be sure to check out the other Meetups we host:
 
 
Occupy Wall Street Supporters http://www.meetup.com/occupywallst
 
OnlyOneTV Fans Official Meetups http://www.meetup.com/onlyonetv
 
The New York Bitcoin Users Meetup http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin

http://groups.google.com/group/bitcoinpeople/

[RandyFolds]

Hear hear. I'm not changing the US by sitting on a street. Moving to Korea had a bigger impact thsn I could ever make by being a sociopath hippie since I've dropped $300k into business here and not the US.

I'm changing America by moving to Korea. Also, those people who actually care enough to try and do anything they can, no matter how seemingly futile? They're the real sociopaths.

More people need to set themselves on fire for it to work. Some rioting and looting works. So do assassinations on a grand scale and all out civil war. You guys are pussies and an embarrassment to our founding fathers.

Matt, you've been killing it lately. Bravissimo!

[Rassah]

Not sure if to make a new thread on this, but at least put this here for you guys to share if you want

"Basics of Bitcoin" Classes to begin this coming Saturday at Occupy
Wall Street http://www.meetup.com/bitcoin
...

Shit, Bruce is STILL doing more for Bitcoin than most people here... 

[LoupGaroux]

Gotta love all those poor disenfranchised Occupiers who gave up their jobs to go and participate in this monumental Circle Jerk on Wall Street. And now we are supposed to feel sorry that you don't have health insurance? But you CAN afford a computer, internet access, and have the electricity and means to participate in the Bitcoin economy? Your writing is lucid, so I suspect you have an education. Are you perhaps the numb nuts who quit his job to go to NYC to demand a job? What exactly is it that you think society "owes" you?

It's called priorities, you need to get some. Why should we, the rest of the world, pay for you to have insurance when you clearly have disposable income that is spent on non-essentials? Because it is "moral", "ethical", or the "right thing to do"? No- it is freeloading. It is being a blood sucking leech to take from others who have the initiative to produce, when you want to seize the product of their labor and investment and use it to subsidize your dependent and entitled lifestyle. You want insurance? Buy it. You want an income? Earn one- its the product of a job. You want to create a change in the world? Work for it instead of whining like a little bitch on the sidewalk about it. There are millions of people on the planet who could use some help, some education, some inspiration, hell even something to eat. You are parasites, coming from a position of enormous privilege and access to have your little protest about equality and demanding that the rest of the world accept your downtrodden world view.

Barring growing up and doing something about it, if you want to change the system, quit pussy-footing around. You don't like the banks? Blow some up. You hate the rich? Kidnap some and demand ransom for their lives. Want medical care? Seize some doctor's kids and hold them hostage until their parents, the doctors, take your appendix out or give you the abortion you desire. Or better yet, get a medical degree and spend your life giving free health care to people who need it. Hungry? Don't wait for a bitcoin donation from some delusional wanna-be in Humpfuckingtulips, Nebraska to clear your Dwolla account so you can order delivery Thai food, march your happy ass into the Thai restaurant and demand what you want.

"Occupying" is a worthless publicity stunt that makes you all look like little crybabies whining for free shit. If you really look hard you might be able to find one pair of balls in the whole damn movement, and then you might think about manning up and actually making a change instead of lame ass street theater for simpletons. The revolution is not made up of whiners and pretenders who want, want, want. It is made by those who are willing to take action, and to put commitment into their lives. The best thing that could happen to OccWallSt would be a sudden freeze and having several hundred of you worthless dimwits freeze solid. Then at least there would be a public outcry about getting people too stupid to get out of the weather to move out of public spaces. Be glad that the Mayor of NYC is a spineless bootlicker, I would have already rolled the tanks. Tienanmen Square your asses pour encourager les autres.

[genjix]

Calm down Adolf.

[LoupGaroux]

Mikhail Bakunin I will give you, certainly not Adolph.

[Vanderbleek]

*snip*
 Or better yet, get a medical degree and spend your life giving free health care to people who need it.
*snip*

This, I think, is something to remember. If you think something's wrong, the only thing you can change about it is yourself. For example: I think intellectual property rights are stupid, so I publish all of my work in the public domain (unless a previous license would make that illegal, such as the Apache License). Be the change you want to see in the world.

[naypalm]

[netrin]

Mikhail Bakunin I will give you, certainly not Adolph.

I was thinking Raymond Poincaré, but Bokonon will do.

[LoupGaroux]

I was thinking Raymond Poincaré, but Bokonon will do.

I am deeply touched by both references, I respectfully acknowledge your intellect, grace, and uncanny insight, Sir.

And here I thought I was merely the bastard step-child of Loki!

[luv2drnkbr]

Seriously. You all bitch and complain about how terrible things are. Get out there. It's easy to procrastinate or criticize. Unless you're taking action or working 14+ hours a day to better things then you should feel bad. Bitcoin will always be around and frankly that isn't a valid cop-out now.

I swear I would drop everything I'm doing now if I wasn't on the other side of the globe.

If you are remotely near NYC then you have no excuse.

I think that's a fine post, and I'm considering going to New York myself.  I live on the west coast, so it would mean actually relocating for a while, but I could manage.  I'm curious why being on the other side of the globe matters though.  Why does your plane ride being 5 hours longer than mine mean that you can't go?

[luv2drnkbr]

Gotta love all those poor disenfranchised Occupiers who gave up their jobs to go and participate in this monumental Circle Jerk on Wall Street. And now we are supposed to feel sorry that you don't have health insurance? But you CAN afford a computer, internet access, and have the electricity and means to participate in the Bitcoin economy? Your writing is lucid, so I suspect you have an education. Are you perhaps the numb nuts who quit his job to go to NYC to demand a job? What exactly is it that you think society "owes" you?

It's called priorities, you need to get some. Why should we, the rest of the world, pay for you to have insurance when you clearly have disposable income that is spent on non-essentials? Because it is "moral", "ethical", or the "right thing to do"? No- it is freeloading. It is being a blood sucking leech to take from others who have the initiative to produce, when you want to seize the product of their labor and investment and use it to subsidize your dependent and entitled lifestyle. You want insurance? Buy it. You want an income? Earn one- its the product of a job. You want to create a change in the world? Work for it instead of whining like a little bitch on the sidewalk about it. There are millions of people on the planet who could use some help, some education, some inspiration, hell even something to eat. You are parasites, coming from a position of enormous privilege and access to have your little protest about equality and demanding that the rest of the world accept your downtrodden world view.

Barring growing up and doing something about it, if you want to change the system, quit pussy-footing around. You don't like the banks? Blow some up. You hate the rich? Kidnap some and demand ransom for their lives. Want medical care? Seize some doctor's kids and hold them hostage until their parents, the doctors, take your appendix out or give you the abortion you desire. Or better yet, get a medical degree and spend your life giving free health care to people who need it. Hungry? Don't wait for a bitcoin donation from some delusional wanna-be in Humpfuckingtulips, Nebraska to clear your Dwolla account so you can order delivery Thai food, march your happy ass into the Thai restaurant and demand what you want.

"Occupying" is a worthless publicity stunt that makes you all look like little crybabies whining for free shit. If you really look hard you might be able to find one pair of balls in the whole damn movement, and then you might think about manning up and actually making a change instead of lame ass street theater for simpletons. The revolution is not made up of whiners and pretenders who want, want, want. It is made by those who are willing to take action, and to put commitment into their lives. The best thing that could happen to OccWallSt would be a sudden freeze and having several hundred of you worthless dimwits freeze solid. Then at least there would be a public outcry about getting people too stupid to get out of the weather to move out of public spaces. Be glad that the Mayor of NYC is a spineless bootlicker, I would have already rolled the tanks. Tienanmen Square your asses pour encourager les autres.

Wow you really do believe that the world exists magically within an Ayn Rand novel don't you?  It's too bad the entirety of the facts, social welfare statistics, people's support of their government, etc. disagree with you.  (Well, too bad for you I guess, good for the real world.)

(And let me preempt you on asking me to back this up sources.  Do some rudimentary googling and wiki-ing first.  It's all right there.)

[LoupGaroux]

Hey luv?

Why would I ask you to cite sources? I didn't challenge any stats, I directly attacked the motives, and the actions of the hypocrites who are at Wall St. You say you are thinking of "relocating for a while" from the West Coast... do you have a home, a job, a life on the West Coast? What are you giving up so that you can go to the sidewalks and demand something that you believe (with the apparent weight of wiki statistics!) you are entitled to that you neither worked for, created  or have any part of the maintenance of. A trip across country costs money, and "relocating" typically means you have to give up your means of support, ie: a job, unless you work for an employer who encourages people to not work to go and ask for redistribution of the product of society. So you are willing to abandon a job, or a cushy unemployment check, or living in your Mom's basement to go and ask for the equivalent of Mom's basement for the whole of the under-contributing class?

That's not moral, that's not ethical, and that is not the imperative of what is righteous. That is just plain dumb. Sort of like chopping off your own foot to demand that somebody else buy you a prosthesis. Nobody owes you, or "The Movement" anything other than opportunity to compete. You vision of a world wide Special Olympics where everybody gets to win, and share equally in everything isn't going to happen, because it doesn't work. When everybody is a taker, you run out of givers pretty darn quick, and the powerful elite who have the control in your worker's paradise turn off the faucets of free goodies to keep them for themselves, because there just won't be anybody giving up everything out of free will.

My point being that if you truly have the convictions you claim by wanted to effect a change, do something direct about it. Sell everything that you own, donate the proceeds to a worthy cause, exist on just the bare minimum you need to stay alive so that your good works and energy can nourish those who have less than you, to feed that starving family in Namibia, or to provide an Escalade to the crack whore single mom in Atlanta who feels that she should have one because all the other crack whores have one. Or, if you prefer direct action, do so. Aux barricades, baby! But pissing and moaning about how you want to change the world, either on the sidewalks of financial districts, or in the forum threads of a fairly affluent, privileged and intelligent group of crypto-currency aficionados is really just yelling at the ocean. It accomplishes little beyond allowing you the pleasure of hearing your own voice.