Bitcoin Forum
December 05, 2016, 08:48:45 AM *
News: To be able to use the next phase of the beta forum software, please ensure that your email address is correct/functional.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Thoughts on a bitcoin alternative backed by gold?  (Read 1781 times)
dance4x
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 143



View Profile
September 21, 2011, 03:57:23 PM
 #1

What are your thoughts on an alternative to bitcoin that actually has something behind it? It would offer the same security and privacy as bitcoin but it wouldn't have the flaws of paper money.
1480927725
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480927725

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480927725
Reply with quote  #2

1480927725
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1480927725
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480927725

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480927725
Reply with quote  #2

1480927725
Report to moderator
1480927725
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1480927725

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1480927725
Reply with quote  #2

1480927725
Report to moderator
ThePiachu
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 442



View Profile WWW
September 21, 2011, 04:55:30 PM
 #2

Well, anyone can offer a service like that. Get some gold/other commodities and offer to trade x amount of things for y amount of bitcoins. Basically you'd be working like a shop, but probably on a bigger scale (enough commodities to support exchange of all bitcoins).

Personally I think it is too early to offer anything like that - bitcoin value fluctuates too much, and they are still being created, meaning you'd have to be getting more and more commodities over time.

1HWbVLhxj7bhewhyapMZpyhqWAeAhJd51E
My Bitcoin Calculator:
http://tpbitcalc.appspot.com/
Adult BTC
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11

http://www.btckink.com/ -- btckink@gmail.com


View Profile WWW
September 21, 2011, 05:01:42 PM
 #3

How would you decentralize it?

Subscribe anonymously to Kink.com's premium adult content. http://www.btckink.com/ (http://www.btckink.com/)
ThePiachu
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 442



View Profile WWW
September 21, 2011, 05:53:58 PM
 #4

Hmm, I think that would be hard without use of a solution like https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Smart_Property . You could always try setting up some service like mtgox where people could be offering to trade their gold for resources. One or either way, it would require some creativity if it was to be really decentralised.

For now you can just do your best to help bitcoins get some more recognised value by trading in it (selling goods and services for coins). This would be similar to what you want to accomplish and it is decentralised.

1HWbVLhxj7bhewhyapMZpyhqWAeAhJd51E
My Bitcoin Calculator:
http://tpbitcalc.appspot.com/
John Tobey
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 481



View Profile WWW
September 21, 2011, 07:22:52 PM
 #5

It would probably be a new chain/currency, not bitcoin-the-currency (BTC) per se.  A successful gold-backed currency would fluctuate more or less with the gold price, i.e., less than BTC fluctuates.

Decentralisation would be challenging, but not impossible in the long run--provided that the currency's trade value dwarfs its nominal gold exchange value.  The end result would be just like BTC after the inflationary period.  Gold-backing would have been a crutch to spur early adoption like the bitcoin's 50BTC block rewards.  However, as long as the commodity backing forms the bulk of the currency's value, the currency would be centralized and subject to third-party trust and single points of failure.

Start a new chain like BTC but with the following differences:
  • An issuer exists and manages the backing commodity.
  • No block solution rewards: only an increase of gold in the system can inject money.  Transaction fees and issuer incentives motivate mining.
  • Any transaction signed by the issuer is valid and can create currency.  (This rule could be dropped by agreement among users once the currency becomes established as a medium of exchange.)
  • Issuer promises to issue currency to your address when you send it gold.  You hand it the gold, and it hands you a signed transaction.
  • Issuer promises to send you gold when you send currency to its address.  You might have to wait a few blocks to prove you didn't double-spend, but the issuer's obligation to you would be public and, presumably, enforceable once your transaction enters the network.
  • Issuer might gradually decrease the exchange rate to cover gold storage costs.
  • Issuer might charge a spread to cover conversion costs and early mining incentives.
  • Several widely trusted parties would audit the issuer's holdings and publish the results.

You'd have BTC's low transaction cost and something to satisfy the goldbugs.

Can a change to the best-chain criteria protect against 51% to 90+% attacks without a hard fork?
Anonymous
Guest

September 21, 2011, 07:24:40 PM
 #6

Bitcoin is essentially gold. You're wasting time backing it by a physical commodity. Digital scarcity and value is the future.
John Tobey
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 481



View Profile WWW
September 21, 2011, 07:32:02 PM
 #7

Bitcoin is essentially gold. You're wasting time backing it by a physical commodity.
That's a matter of opinion until tested in the market.

Digital scarcity and value is the future.
That's compatible with usefulness of commodity backing in the present.

Can a change to the best-chain criteria protect against 51% to 90+% attacks without a hard fork?
Anonymous
Guest

September 21, 2011, 07:33:48 PM
 #8

The market has proven it. A 1000 percent increase over a year very well proves value can be held through this medium. No significant decline below $4 has been shown thus far. I believe full confidence can be maintained despite these volatile and emotional bubbles. This is to say precious mediums like Gold can be emotional but with proper and eventual incentive, the prices will stabilize.
John Tobey
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 481



View Profile WWW
September 21, 2011, 08:11:54 PM
 #9

A lot can happen between here and market-cap parity with gold.

$37000000: value of all BTC, including "lost coins".
$8000000000000: approx value of all gold.

Can a change to the best-chain criteria protect against 51% to 90+% attacks without a hard fork?
ThePiachu
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 442



View Profile WWW
September 21, 2011, 09:45:12 PM
 #10

Well, there might be some more issues to iron out in the new crypto-gold - how much will the miners earn by hashing the network and how fast will you be able to grow the network, as well as if it is meant to be decentralized, how will people add more gold to it without a central authority to say "yes, we got a new kilo of gold from you, so you`ll get 50 gold-coins". Personally I`d just open an internet gold exchange and run it with bitcoins.

1HWbVLhxj7bhewhyapMZpyhqWAeAhJd51E
My Bitcoin Calculator:
http://tpbitcalc.appspot.com/
nighteyes
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 105


View Profile
September 22, 2011, 02:02:49 AM
 #11

Well, anyone can offer a service like that. Get some gold/other commodities and offer to trade x amount of things for y amount of bitcoins. Basically you'd be working like a shop, but probably on a bigger scale (enough commodities to support exchange of all bitcoins).

Anyone can support however many bitcoins they want with whatever they want....they dont need to support "all".
Granted, you need a program to parse through all the coins.
deepceleron
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470



View Profile WWW
September 22, 2011, 04:07:59 AM
 #12

That's a fun idea if you like federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison:

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/11528

Sock Puppet
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 16



View Profile
September 22, 2011, 05:52:30 AM
 #13

You can have currency issued and backed by a central authority easily - check out Pecunix.  But that's not "bitcoin backed by gold".  Bitcoin's big advantage is it's decentralized.  In that scenario, who holds the gold and guarantees a fixed exchange rate?  What's their motivation?
btcmsg
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35


View Profile
September 22, 2011, 07:19:40 PM
 #14

How about gold backed by bitcoins? A contract in which at any moment one can replace the gold on his credit with an agreed amount of bitcoins.
BitLex
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 588


View Profile WWW
September 22, 2011, 07:28:47 PM
 #15

this
It would offer the same security and privacy as bitcoin...
and that
  • An issuer exists and manages the backing commodity.
don't match.

there has to be an issuer, someone backing the alternative with something,
that something has to be stored and secured.
good luck trying that decentralized.

dance4x
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 143



View Profile
September 22, 2011, 09:30:04 PM
 #16

I'm not very wise as to how bitcoin works exactly but I've always thought currency should have some actual backing for it to be able to work. I suppose something I would be look for would be closer to E-Gold or the other cold currencies where it is centralized. Decentralization would occur when you had many different companies or banks holding the gold for you. What I'd really like to see is what would happen if all government fiat currencies were abolished. What do you think would pop up as money? If history was an indicator it would have to be gold or silver, correct?

I suppose I need to do more research on bitcoins. Right now it is just something that has caught my interest.
TheHarbinger
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 378


Why is it so damn hot in here?


View Profile
September 22, 2011, 09:45:27 PM
 #17

Any "currency" only has a "perceived" value, whether it is gold, USD, BitCoin, or chickens.  What I mean buy this is that any currency is only worth what someone is willing to trade for it.  I can go to a McDonalds and trade a little green piece of paper for a hamburger.  So 1 McD's burger is worth $1 to me.  Gold is a "standard" only because many people want it, if tomorrow nobody wanted it, I could buy all the gold in the world for my one piece of green paper.  There are places in the world where the demand for a live chicken is greater than 16oz of gold.  All currency is based on the trade system at it's core. 

12Um6jfDE7q6crm1s6tSksMvda8s1hZ3Vj
AndyR
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 11

Ryan Industrial Manufactory Ltd.


View Profile
September 22, 2011, 11:02:19 PM
 #18

No, these notions of a centralized issuer of currency are nothing more than fancies to establish a new reserve-type central currency authority. This is the very same organization we have labored to get rid of with the creation of bitcoins. Gold's value does not derive from it's acceptance by some currency-issuing central body, but by the fact that people recognize its worth as a store of value - gold can be currency, it does not need to back it. Immanuel is right to point out that Bitcoin is analogous to gold, and like Bitcoin, it does not need a central authority to give it value. Such authority is only necessary for intrinsically worthless media of exchange - that is, fiat currencies, whose worth comes to us from the barrel of a gun.

To back Bitcoin with gold is the same as backing silver with gold - it makes no sense when one is as good a store of value as the other. It is unnecessary. All that aside, I would like to see an exchange to allow the conversion of gold and bitcoins. I'll say, though, that such a business will need be quite transparent and forthright with me before I would hand over any of my gold - the present exchanges, for instance, strike me as suspicious organizations. I keep an eye on them, and in time, perhaps I will trust them. For now, however, I keep my Bitcoins - and my gold! - safe with me at all times.

Is not a man entitled to the sweat of his brow?
nighteyes
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 105


View Profile
September 23, 2011, 02:27:13 AM
 #19

To back Bitcoin with gold is the same as backing silver with gold - it makes no sense when one is as good a store of value as the other. It is unnecessary.

It is necessary because people may not see the same value in bitcoin, especially if one wants it as a store of value and the other wants it for exchange. Now, people are being very limited in implying it has to be backed up by gold....but it should be backed up by what you want it to be backed up by(and can pay for).

Another currency is not needed....its ready to fly as it is backed up by anything someone can prove its backed up by. I can take 5 bitcoins and say they are backed by gold...and I can take the next five and back them up by economic cycle part#X.

Now of course you couldnt persuade anyone who is wearing government rose colored glasses that its not illegal....so to put it to the test, it would be in a more savy country thats not hamstrung and uptight like the USA. Probably a third world country. Say some poor farmers who need help. Send them bitcoins backed up by gold...who wouldnt accept that? OK, but you have to stop them from cashing out so the selling point is to exchange those bitcoins backed by gold for bitcoins backed by what the next person wants(except for national currency).


idontknow
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 28



View Profile
September 24, 2011, 04:11:51 AM
 #20

I'm not very wise as to how bitcoin works exactly but I've always thought currency should have some actual backing for it to be able to work.

But then what is backing the backing?

And what is backing the backing of the backing?

Eventually you get to a point where it's faith/belief/trust in the market so why not just start with that as the backing in the first place.

http://www.winbtcs.com/?ref=16M52MjMVUWfiwZfBMBjLqGChM3ensF3mk
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!