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Author Topic: Mt.Gox gathering personal information by blocking accounts  (Read 5507 times)
demkd
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September 22, 2011, 09:53:33 AM
 #1

I think it may be interesting for newbies, like myself and anyone who want to trade anonymously.
I want to tell my story.

I started mining month ago and time to time sell btc on Mt.Gox, all went good and I liked their marketplace.
Week ago I invest some $$ to bitcoins and start trading, all went good, trading process was exciting and profitable.
But... 19.09 Mt.Gox suddenly block my account, after I add there all my funds to my account (~30 btc).
I immediately contacted their support with no answer. (Request #12338)
I can't log on for seven hours, then I finally log on to my account and sell bitcoins I can't withdraw anything.

After ~24 hours Mt.Gox support answers:
Thank you for contacting us. In response to an increased incidence of phishing and hacking attempts made against Mt.Gox and its users, stricter security precautions have been implemented to protect our users and their funds. Should suspicious activity be detected in relation to an Mt.Gox account, the ability to withdraw funds will be temporarily suspended until it can be confirmed that the owner of the account is in fact still in control.
Should your account be affected by these security measures, please send two (2) pieces of identification documentation to aml@mtgox.com.

Surprise, surprise... I request some evidence of "phishing and hacking attempts":
You blocked my account, I'm loosing money dye to such strange "measures" and finally You demanding my ids, but You NOT provide ANY evidence about "incidence of phishing and hacking attempts" related to my account. IT IS MY RIGHT to trade anonymously, please provide strong evidence of "incidence of phishing and hacking attempts" related to MY account. If You NOT want to provide such evidence than please close my account and return MY money.

Support ignored my request of evidence:
Unfortunately, we have not yet received your email and documents in aml@mtgox.com, so we can not process any withdrawals. As soon as it is received, you will be notified.

I don't like to be ignored:
Before I sending you any anything. I demand strong evidence of "incidence of phishing and hacking attempts" related to MY account. I do not exceed any limits and NOT doing "phishing and hacking attempts" but you blocking my account and demanding my identification with hidden from me reason.
If you want know where and when I buy my bitcoins I can provide you such information. But MY ids you can get only if you have evidence of "incidence of phishing and hacking attempts" related to MY account.

They change statement:
The indicated phishing and hacking attemps were not performed by you but by other users trying to access your account. This is only a security measure to ensure the rightful owner is trying to access and withdraw from the account.

Whoa! Someone tried to hack my account and now I must provide ID???
You say someone "trying to access your account" but I have strong 12 symbols password and I slightly change my password periodically, I am security administrator, I know what is a "security" means, but you still demanding identify me as user of anonymous bitcoin network? It' strange.
I have my e-mail [censored] you can confirm it.
I can provide logs from [censored] where I buy bitcoins and sell it on Mt.Gox then return my money to [censored] thru AurumExchange&LR and play on price difference and sometimes have small profit, I can provide my deepbit.net logs where I mined my first bitcoins and send it to my account on Mt.Gox account directly. You can confirm it and see any problem there.
I really don't like this situation. You trying to say, when someone tried to hack my account I must confirm myself??! But if I provided my ID I don't... or again confirm procedure?.. You known it's seems to be very strange for me. If you have any strong reasons to get my ID I can hear you, but you DO NOT provide such a reaseon. If you want check my [censored] logs I can sand you it right away.

The say it, they want my id and "hacking attempt" is only excuse.
Unfortunately, our policy requires you to submit documents to lift the block. Please let us know when you submit the necessary documents to the email provided.

Ok... $160 maybe...
What kind of "identification documentation" you requested? I have only russian ID. And specify Mt.Gox Privacy Policy your webpage does not contain any links to it.

Ignored again
Please provide your username and/or MTGOX account number and attach a copy of an official ID document (such as you passport, driver's license, etc...) as well as a scan of a monthly utility bill (TV, electricity, phone, bank statement, etc)

Ask again
I understand. You want 1 copy of my photo ID, and copy of utility bills.
But you don't answer my question. Where I can find your official Privacy Policy regarding to protecting my personal information?

And again
Please submit the documents, and when received, your request will be processed. For all information regarding Mt.Gox and Zendesk, please see:
https://mtgox.com/
https://mtgox.zendesk.com/home

I'm asking again
Thank you for fast reply. I carefully viewed provided by you links, but still can't find Privacy Policy. Without official document with Privacy Policy how can I be sure what my personal information not be sold to anyone or be leaked to the internet?

The don't know the difference
We are a secure verified company. Please read the following announcement.
https://mtgox.zendesk.com/entries/20395323-mt-gox-k-k-tibanne-now-verified-by-verisign

Do you trust Mt.Gox?
I checked your statement and Verisign Trust Seal have nothing to do with properly handling personal information. Are You intentantionally misleading me?
https://knowledge.verisign.com/support/trust-seal-support/index?page=content&id=AR1367&actp=LIST&viewlocale=en_US
mtgox.com does NOT have any Terms of Service, License Agreement, Privacy Policy, you blocked my account after I add all my funds in btc with rediculous excuse, you provide incorrect information and now how can I intrust you my personal information?
You may keep my money. I never use your services again.
And I will warn community about your suspiciuos activity.

Wow!
We do have Privacy Policy, but it is currently being edited to ensure quality before posting it on our website. If you wish to read our Privacy Policy, please wait until it is available for all users.

Yeah... yeah. Another hack and anyone can have copy of my photo ID for $5. I don't trust Mt.Gox anymore. Taking money as hostage, demanding personal information without understanding basic rules of security, ignoring customer requests, no privacy policy, blocking accounts, unqualified support...
Be carefull, don't trust anyone. I only want warn all newbies about last strange changes on Mt. Gox.
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FreeTrade
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September 22, 2011, 10:30:57 AM
 #2

MtGox is not your local high street bank. They've got some complex issues to navigate and I think you should make some allowances for that.

That said - you're right, they should have a privacy policy, tos etc published on their site.

The internet is freedom to communicate without permission. Crypto is freedom to trade without permission.

HODLCoin ANN - Interest rate 0.000015% per block for every balance. Term Deposit Rate 2500% - http://hodlcoin.com/
bitconformist
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September 22, 2011, 04:09:59 PM
 #3

MtGox is not your local high street bank. They've got some complex issues to navigate and I think you should make some allowances for that.

That said - you're right, they should have a privacy policy, tos etc published on their site.
Magic the Gathering Online Exchange is not your local high street bank. They've got some complex issues to navigate but function in a vacuum of competence and will lose and/or steal all of your money.
casascius
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September 22, 2011, 05:08:36 PM
 #4

The only party who sounds reasonable in this exchange is Mt.Gox.

It sounds like the OP is operating with an expectation that he should be able to do business anonymously.  The extent of the legitimacy of that complaint is that MtGox probably promoted that expectation, and then had to change its mind.

OP's complaint would make sense if it was "I expected to remain anonymous, and since all I have on MtGox is 10 BTC, I don't feel that amount warrants me having to identify myself."  Of course, I'm willing to bet it's far more than 10 BTC.

Instead, OP is complaining that "all he has is Russian ID", and "where's MtGox's privacy policy".  These are non-meritorious and have nothing to do with MtGox "being a bank" or "not being a bank" or whatever else.  If OP has an ID, he can scan the fucking ID and send it in and get his BTC back, or quit complaining.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
greyhawk
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September 22, 2011, 05:40:48 PM
 #5

IT IS MY RIGHT to trade anonymously,

demkd
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September 23, 2011, 02:28:55 AM
 #6

If OP has an ID, he can scan the fucking ID and send it in and get his BTC back, or quit complaining.
Yeah, It's like "We always right, you don't have any rights! Just shut up and do what we say or else...". And I think this is not acceptable way to do the business, they just unprofessional with zero experience. If they want to stay on top, they must learn how to do it properly like this.
payb.tc
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September 23, 2011, 05:20:29 AM
 #7

how long does it usually take to get a reply from aml@mtgox.com?

seems like forever.
demkd
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September 23, 2011, 06:32:48 AM
 #8

My acquaintance (account locked 09/12) send documents 09/13 and get account unlocked 09/15.
BUT if you don't send ALL requested documents with login sometimes they ignore your mail.
repentance
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September 23, 2011, 06:54:03 AM
 #9

If OP has an ID, he can scan the fucking ID and send it in and get his BTC back, or quit complaining.
Yeah, It's like "We always right, you don't have any rights! Just shut up and do what we say or else...". And I think this is not acceptable way to do the business, they just unprofessional with zero experience. If they want to stay on top, they must learn how to do it properly like this.


You realise that only a few weeks ago people were complaining about TradeHill requesting ID verification in order to comply with AML requirements and bitching that TradeHill hadn't disclosed that this might happen when they opened their accounts.

The exchanges want to stay in business and not get shut down either because they're non-compliant with various laws or because of fraud relateed to their user accounts.  Look at the song and dance which happens here when people's accounts are compromised and the exchanges don't refund the lost money.

The exchanges have never promised anonymity.  If you want some degree of that, then peer to peer transactions can provide it to some degree but even the devs themselves have pointed out in the past that Bitcoin is not totally anonymous.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
EhVedadoOAnonimato
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September 23, 2011, 07:14:08 AM
 #10

It sounds like the OP is operating with an expectation that he should be able to do business anonymously.  

And he should. Unless it was explicitly said otherwise since the beginning, he should.

OP has all the right to complain. MtGox should not be demanding anything.
demkd
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September 23, 2011, 02:44:44 PM
 #11

You realise that only a few weeks ago people were complaining about TradeHill requesting ID verification in order to comply with AML requirements and bitching that TradeHill hadn't disclosed that this might happen when they opened their accounts.
It's interesting can you provide link where I can read about this incident? I found info related to Australian AML policies only.

The exchanges have never promised anonymity.
Well...
Privacy
What information do we collect?
We collect information from you when you register on our site or deposit or withdraw funds.
Any data we request that is not required will be specified as voluntary or optional.
When ordering or registering on our site, as appropriate, you may be asked to enter your: name, e-mail address or mailing address. You may, however, visit our site anonymously.
idontknow
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September 24, 2011, 02:12:12 AM
 #12

Whatever. Mt Gox is a pile of nonsense lately. They've got more explaining to do than just this.

Where should a newby go to start trading?

http://www.winbtcs.com/?ref=16M52MjMVUWfiwZfBMBjLqGChM3ensF3mk
JonHind
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September 24, 2011, 02:33:05 AM
 #13

I took all of my money out of MtGox after they continued to support Bruce and advertised on his show after Bruce was outed as a convicted fraudster and scammer. It looks as though I made the right decision.

A friend of mine who started mining when I did had his account blocked on MtGox the other day. This was when Marc announced that he blocked 2000 accounts for 'suspicious trading'. My friend was trying to sell off his bitcoins and get out of MtGox at the time.

MtGox demanded that my friend send a scan of his passport and a utility bill before they could release any funds. My friend politely told MtGox to 'fuck off' and to keep the money. Imagine what a scammer could do with photographic ID and a utility bill?

Why people stick with MtGox is beyond me.
Raoul Duke
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September 24, 2011, 02:37:00 AM
 #14

The magic cards exchange is starting to look like paypal, except that paypal may be liable when they lose my money or let my document copies get stolen by hackers...

demkd
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September 24, 2011, 03:12:36 AM
 #15

Where should a newby go to start trading?
I think https://tradehill.com is most trustable now so it's a good place to start.
You can use MY referral code TH-R119476 and you get small fee rate discount.
Or you can grab refferal from some mining pool like a deepbit.net (as I did)
Or register without any referral code and you get standard 0.60% rate.
Mt.Gox_Natalie
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October 12, 2011, 06:16:49 AM
 #16

Hello demkd,

For the security of your account and for your best interest, we are requesting that you provide the official ID government and proof of utility bill and upload the scans on https://mtgox.com/forms/verification.  Your documents will be reviewed from our new interface and will be processed more quickly than at aml@mtgox.com.  You will be notified of the results shortly after you submit your documents.  If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us at the Mt.Gox Zendesk.  Thank you for your continued support to Mt.Gox. 
demkd
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October 19, 2011, 11:15:09 PM
 #17

For the security of your account and for your best interest
Oh yeah for my best interest.
Where your Privacy Policy again?
EhVedadoOAnonimato
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October 20, 2011, 07:13:58 AM
 #18

For the security of your account and for your best interest, we are requesting that you provide the official ID government and proof of utility bill and upload the scans on https://mtgox.com/forms/verification

Please, stop this disgusting abuse! "For your own security", yeah... this is the cliché phrase one says before violating your rights somehow.

Just give the guy's money back. You're behaving like thieves otherwise.
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October 20, 2011, 10:15:15 AM
 #19

For the security of your account and for your best interest
Oh yeah for my best interest.
Where your Privacy Policy again?

They need your information to send a 1099-B.
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