22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution

[exocytosis]

And still no one has shown me the one thing I have been asking for over, and over and over again.  Just ONE observable example of a KIND changing into another KIND.  Where is it?  

Do you have parents?

Yes?

There you go! A "kind" changing into another "kind".
(BTW: "Kind" is a biblical term, and isn't widely used in evolutionary biology.)

It would be easier for you to understand evolution if you stopped thinking in terms of the "kind"/"species" labels and similar arbitrary mental prisons/boxes. Think of individuals (or even individual genes) instead, and you'll notice that evolution becomes more fathomable.

Here's a simple explanation of evolution for you:

1: There is heritability. (E.g.: My siblings and me have inherited certain traits from our parents.)
2: There are variants. (E.g.: My siblings and me are somewhat similar, but also somewhat different from one another.)
3: Some variants produce more offspring than other variants. (E.g.: My siblings have a couple of kids each. I have zero.)

Voila! That's basically all you need for evolution to occur. Notice how they're easily verifiable facts. And notice how there's no need to draw up an arbitrary, imaginary line between "macro-" and "micro-evolution". Such lines are figments of the creationist's imagination.

Do you perhaps deny the existence of heritability, variants and the fact that some variants produce more offspring than others?

[jcoin200]

I think this quote says it all:

"At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers"

So evolutionists believe that over 4 billion years, with millions of species "evolving" they only found hundreds of examples of this??? And what they call "transitional fossils" are usually no more than bone fragments. Go look at the actual physical evidence. It's just not there.

Also I wonder why some species decided to stop "evolving", like alligators?

[cp1]

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean god did it.

To understand something takes intelligence.  If our genetic code is so complicated that it is hard to understand then it should tell us something.  Maybe someone intelligent designed the genetic code perhaps?

No, it means you're not smart enough to understand it.

Are you swayed by arguments that aren't really arguments but are just "Maybe" followed by something silly followed by a question mark?

Maybe you should give me a million dollars perhaps? 

[BitChick]

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean god did it.

To understand something takes intelligence.  If our genetic code is so complicated that it is hard to understand then it should tell us something.  Maybe someone intelligent designed the genetic code perhaps?

No, it means you're not smart enough to understand it.

Are you swayed by arguments that aren't really arguments but are just "Maybe" followed by something silly followed by a question mark?

Maybe you should give me a million dollars perhaps?  

I apologize that I am not "smart enough to understand" the complexities of our cell structure.  I assume you are an expert in molecular biology then by your statement.

Scientists are just beginning to scratch the surface of how complex our human bodies are.

Here is one quote:

"People have been studying the brain for centuries, and they've been mapping it, but the brain is just so complex that we barely understand it now," he says. "We have maybe 85 billion neurons in our heads, but we can only listen to maybe 1,000 at a time. [So] we're only getting a tiny picture of what the brain is doing."

 I found this with a quick google search on this site: http://www.npr.org/2013/03/31/175858397/somewhere-over-the-brainbow-the-journey-to-map-the-human-brain

Furthermore, mutations in the human body, or any other living organism are most often not helpful.  There are some instances where there can be some accidental benefits but most mutations lead to things like Muscular Dystrophy or Downs Syndrome.  So any changes in the cell structure and how the human body was designed to operate is a negative thing.  

Evolution is based on mutation after mutation that leads to positive outcomes.  This is not observable in our world.  Chaos does not lead to order, ever.

[pedrog]

Furthermore, mutations in the human body, or any other living organism are most often not helpful.  There are some instances where there can be some accidental benefits but most mutations lead to things like Muscular Dystrophy or Downs Syndrome.  So any changes in the cell structure and how the human body was designed to operate is a negative thing.  

Evolution is based on mutation after mutation that leads to positive outcomes.  This is not observable in our world.  Chaos does not lead to order, ever.

Again, I have provided you several times websites that explain all that stuff, you are simple mocking us by asking the same stuff again and again, can't you use Google or read the material we have provided you?

Of course most mutations are bad, probably 99.99% and that's how natural selection works, only the fittest survive, is that so hard to grasp?

[BitChick]

Furthermore, mutations in the human body, or any other living organism are most often not helpful.  There are some instances where there can be some accidental benefits but most mutations lead to things like Muscular Dystrophy or Downs Syndrome.  So any changes in the cell structure and how the human body was designed to operate is a negative thing.  

Evolution is based on mutation after mutation that leads to positive outcomes.  This is not observable in our world.  Chaos does not lead to order, ever.

Again, I have provided you several times websites that explain all that stuff, you are simple mocking us by asking the same stuff again and again, can't you use Google or read the material we have provided you?

Of course most mutations are bad, probably 99.99% and that's how natural selection works, only the fittest survive, is that so hard to grasp?

We should be able to observe mutations that are beneficial if evolution was an observable scientific theory even if natural selection had removed all of the "unfit" genes.  We still have more negative mutations passed on from generation to generation.  In fact, we are getting more mutations that are not beneficial as time goes on.

[cp1]

We should be able to observe mutations that are beneficial if evolution was an observable scientific theory even if natural selection had removed all of the "unfit" genes.  We still have more negative mutations passed on from generation to generation.  In fact, we are getting more mutations that are not beneficial as time goes on.

Great, so god exists because life sucks.

[BitChick]

We should be able to observe mutations that are beneficial if evolution was an observable scientific theory even if natural selection had removed all of the "unfit" genes.  We still have more negative mutations passed on from generation to generation.  In fact, we are getting more mutations that are not beneficial as time goes on.

Great, so god exists because life sucks.

Sin is what make life sucks, which entered the world because man chose to disobey God's laws.  Every good and perfect gift comes from God but God gets blamed for all of our bad choices.  That does not really seem fair to me.

[btcxyzzz]

creationism is purest form of bullshit.

[exocytosis]

We should be able to observe mutations that are beneficial if evolution was an observable scientific theory even if natural selection had removed all of the "unfit" genes.  We still have more negative mutations passed on from generation to generation.  In fact, we are getting more mutations that are not beneficial as time goes on.

Great, so god exists because life sucks.

Sin is what make life sucks, which entered the world because man chose to disobey God's laws.  Every good and perfect gift comes from God but God gets blamed for all of our bad choices.  That does not really seem fair to me.

And where, exactly, does your god come from? Who created her?

[e4xit]

The complexity of humans is such that it would be mathematically impossible for a human to evolve from a monkey by chance. Even for one small thing to change in a single cell causes the cell not to function properly.  How could something so advance in it's design just happen by chance?  Logic says it is not possible.  But the universal genetic code is far too complicated for me to even understand but here is a link for those that need something more to read on the subject matter: http://www.rationalskepticism.org/creationism/the-genetic-code-proof-of-intelligent-design-t25736.html

Of course, small changes within the human race is evident.  This is adaptation or micro-evolution.  We can observe that. I want evidence that supports macro-evolution.  The evolution that everyone puts so much of their faith into.  The evolution that we all just came from a big bang and evolved from some goo in the ground.  Where is that evidence?

Whenever I have these discussions it always comes back to "It just took millions of years" or "We do not have the evidence because it happened millions of years ago."  All this speculation about millions of millions of years is just a way to find any excuse so the theory of macro-evolution can be justified.

All that said, nothing I say here would every change anyone's mind regardless.  

And I still have not seen evidence of one kind changing to another.  It is all speculation with millions of years thrown in to back it up.  That is not observable science.  It is "faith" in a belief.  

Care to share the maths behind this please? We're all professional cryographers here!

I'm not sure that you're logic is the best for this job, no offense but you seem pretty ignorant and indoctrinated.

As for your 'kinds' question. What is a 'kind' (where did you learn that term for something?) Do you mean why can't a dog fuck a sheep and make a dog-sheep? Thats biology, something you have to learn by STUDYING, not just applying your brainwashed logic to ("OMG so a dog cant fuck a cat therefore evolution can't be real!") 

[guybrushthreepwood]

OK.  Forget the AIG site then. Can anyone give me one clear and precise example of a fossil in the fossil record that shows one KIND changing into another KIND?   I don't want any websites with speculation about how it might have happened (such as Wikipedia and Berkley sites)  

Why is there no fossils in our record at all that show this?  Because there are none.  I would think that if it was a valid theory there would at least be ONE!?

And if anyone sends me fossils of how a species has changed within a species that just isn't good enough.  Creationist believe in mico-evoluation AKA "adaptation" because it is observable and provable.

Are you actually trying to request a fossil of some sort of half monkey fish bird or something? This is like asking for proof of the same skeleton to prove babies grow into adults. Well there are no skeletons of the exact same baby and the same adult skeleton, therefore babies cannot grow into adults. The changes in evolution are tiny and appear over thousands/millions of years, and it's not just physical fossil evidence but also DNA.

[cp1]

You can't begin to comprehend how a cellphone works, so god must have made your iphone.

[RodeoX]

I think this quote says it all:

"At least hundreds, possibly thousands, of transitional fossils have been found so far by researchers"

So evolutionists believe that over 4 billion years, with millions of species "evolving" they only found hundreds of examples of this??? And what they call "transitional fossils" are usually no more than bone fragments. Go look at the actual physical evidence. It's just not there.

Also I wonder why some species decided to stop "evolving", like alligators?

Hundreds or thousands? I have found hundreds of fossils myself.
There are millions of fossils in museums and universities, and they are all transitional fossils. Evolution never stops and each individual who successfully breeds creates unique offspring. Even an alligator. So why do alligators look the same as many of their ancestors? Simple, their body and behaviors still work. Their is no evolutionary driver to cause change when things are working.
If you go back far enough you will find many species of alligators that lived far from water and galloped around like horses when they ran. They did not survive, but ambush hunting in the swamp is still a good strategy. The crocks that followed that path are still here.   

[BitChick]

You can't begin to comprehend how a cellphone works, so god must have made your iphone.

If I was walking in the wilderness and saw a cellphone lying on the ground would the thought ever cross my mind "Wow.  What a strange thing that has evolved out of the dirt?"  A cell phone is a complicated device that obviously had someone intelligent design it.  So then to look at the complex structure of the human body or all other living organisms (which are far more complicated in design then a cell phone) and say, "Wow.  How did humans just evolve out of the dirt?"  Is just as illogical.

God did not make our cell phone.  But he gave us the intelligence we needed to do so.  Without Him we could not make a cell phone because without Him we would not exist to begin with.

[hilariousandco]

OK.  Forget the AIG site then. Can anyone give me one clear and precise example of a fossil in the fossil record that shows one KIND changing into another KIND?   I don't want any websites with speculation about how it might have happened (such as Wikipedia and Berkley sites) 

Why is there no fossils in our record at all that show this?  Because there are none.  I would think that if it was a valid theory there would at least be ONE!?

And if anyone sends me fossils of how a species has changed within a species that just isn't good enough.  Creationist believe in mico-evoluation AKA "adaptation" because it is observable and provable.

If you can't grasp simple stuff like the age of the earth or the age of the Universe, you can't expect to understand that.

You can start by learning how fossils are formed.

And by the way there are no "kinds", there is some debate on how to define a species and one doesn't need to be a supergenius to understand.

I am totally open to any of these theories.  I am even open to the idea that there are no "kinds" as you say.  But I, unlike what is being taught as "science'' in our schools today, stick with the scientific method which requires some tests be put to theories. 

What scientific testable method do you have for god? I don't understand how you can pick holes on the theory of evolution and claim it's faith, yet you deny evolution based on lack of evidence (even though there is lots), but believe in god without any evidence at all?

[guybrushthreepwood]

You can't begin to comprehend how a cellphone works, so god must have made your iphone.

If I was walking in the wilderness and saw a cellphone lying on the ground would the thought ever cross my mind "Wow.  What a strange thing that has evolved out of the dirt?"  A cell phone is a complicated device that obviously had someone intelligent design it.  So then to look at the complex structure of the human body or all other living organisms (which are far more complicated in design then a cell phone) and say, "Wow.  How did humans just evolve out of the dirt?"  Is just as illogical.

Why are you not applying that same logic to god? So it's ok for god, a being far more complex that both us and phones, to come out of nothing? He must've been designed according to your logic.

[BitChick]

You can't begin to comprehend how a cellphone works, so god must have made your iphone.

If I was walking in the wilderness and saw a cellphone lying on the ground would the thought ever cross my mind "Wow.  What a strange thing that has evolved out of the dirt?"  A cell phone is a complicated device that obviously had someone intelligent design it.  So then to look at the complex structure of the human body or all other living organisms (which are far more complicated in design then a cell phone) and say, "Wow.  How did humans just evolve out of the dirt?"  Is just as illogical.

Why are you not applying that same logic to god? So it's ok for god, a being far more complex that both us and phones, to come out of nothing? He must've been designed according to your logic.

God is eternal and omniscient, all powerful and all knowing.  He created time and we cannot understand things beyond those limits in our human form.  This is one of the things we have to take on faith. We do not have the capacity to understand everything, even though with pride man thinks they know more than God most of the time. 

All that said, there is more evidence that leads to design.  Both evolution and creation need some leap of faith.  We cannot understand how evolution could just "happen" either.  The question becomes is there more proof of intelligent design in our world or a world where things just happen on their own?  It takes less faith to believe in a designer.

[FalconFly]

Also, many don't seem to be aware what little genetic evolution is required to result in rather drastic differences. It takes only 1% generic difference to have two entirely different (genetically/mating incompatible species) that just share similarities upon closer inspection. It's the difference between a small ape and a fully developed human. Add 1% more difference (more advanced genome than ours) and one can only speculate what kind of massive intelligence potential such a lifeform could have compared to us. Take it a step further and allow for a full 10% difference in advanced genome, these levels would simply be way beyond our current comprehension. Einstein, Hawking, Tesla and alikes would be like mentally handicapped cockroaches compared to that.

I understand what you're saying, but in evolution there's no advancement, only change and adaptation, we are not superior or more advanced than a cockroach, we are different, and our intelligence may be an evolutionary disadvantage because we have the power to extinguish ourselves and cockroaches will still be here.

*ugh* what ?
Evolution = Advancement over time, where the term "advancement" also equals ability of survival in a dynamic environment (genetic fitness)

If you seriously think that were not more advanced than a cockroach, then you should revisit school (or get some education from scientists/teachers in general)
While I agree on the intelligence also having certain downsides, that is simply how life works : potentials and risks.
And while we're able to do great harm, our ability to adapt (in ways a cockroach could never do) also ensures our potantial for survival as a species, even after a full-blown global thermonuclear war. Nature doesn't care if 7 Billion humans live on the planet's surface or 50 Million survivors live a mile deep underground.

God is eternal and omniscient, all powerful and all knowing.  He created time and we cannot understand things beyond those limits in our human form.  This is one of the things we have to take on faith. We do not have the capacity to understand everything, even though with pride man thinks they know more than God most of the time.

All that said, there is more evidence that leads to design.  Both evolution and creation need some leap of faith.  We cannot understand how evolution could just "happen" either.  The question becomes is there more proof of intelligent design in our world or a world where things just happen on their own?  It takes less faith to believe in a designer.

And here we go again. Clear sign of a human brain capitulating due to lack of knowledge and processing capability - to believes (the EZ shortcut for those that don't, can't or don't want to get it).
Terms like "Leaps of faith" are human inventions and don't exist in nature in that context. Nature (pardon my french) doesn't give a sh*t. Adapt & survive or die and have your habitat replaced by other species. Eat and get eaten, harsh and simple as that.

While you cannot understand how evolution happens, that doesn't mean I or others share the same unfortunate fate. We do understand (to the best of your abilities and knowledge), that's the main difference. Btw. it doesn't "happen" (typical religious vision of things) it occurs over time due to mutation (transgenetic, radiation), stochastics (random genetic malfunctions that turn out useful) and genetic evolution (breeds) over long timeframes (all put in very inaccurate, layman's terms).
And by time, I don't mean some magic few days of creation, a few years or a few generations. I'm talking tens, hundreds and thousands of millena, these are timeframes that (for some reason) seem to be incompehensible dimensions for religious people. Eons of time. Our own planet, solar system and galaxy formed over even much bigger timeframes, so much we know already (and another creationist/religious myth is busted)

[cp1]

When your only arguments are "I have no idea... so god!" and "just trust me -- it's god," you automatically lose.