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Author Topic: Get ready for a sharp rise in Bitcoin use  (Read 3424 times)
dancupid
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September 24, 2011, 04:48:19 PM
 #41

Chargebacks are never voluntary between both parties.  The merchant gets a huge chargeback fee and then are at risk of losing their merchant account for it.

Yes, but a good merchant doesn't let it get to the chargeback stage - they communicate with their customers and solve their problems. Any good  business has already calculated the cost of problems happening and is ready to deal with it.
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dancupid
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September 24, 2011, 04:58:00 PM
 #42

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If you have the option for rejecting charge backs then why have charge backs in the first place?  The merchant is always going to reject them.  Why would they approve the customer getting their money back through forced action from the credit card company?  The only thing a merchant should do is present evidence that the goods or services were delivered and then leave it up to the CC company's judgment.  A far from perfect system to be sure, but it usually works.  Merchants are never happy when a charge back arrives for whatever reason, but that's the cost of business.  Bitcoins are asking the customer to carry the risk of fraud.


Chargebacks are a contract between the buyer and seller - If I don;t want to sell to you becasue you have no reputation I shouldn;t have to. But if you have a proven track record and belong to the 99.9% of people who have better things to do with their lives than scam,  and just want to buy something, then I would be willing to let you claim a chargeback if I didn't deliver on my promise. That's what any decent merchant should do - and you would be much more confident to buy from me if I did that. I just want to make the sale, and 99% of the time it will go through smoothly. And if it doean't I will solve your problem without you even having to think about chargebacks.
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September 24, 2011, 05:26:25 PM
 #43

chargebacks are too much in favour of buyers these days and a lot of people cash in on them, it means for example, that prices on ebay are much higher then they need to be to cover them, and its also a simple way for people to get free access for a few days to porn sites
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September 24, 2011, 05:46:39 PM
 #44

Chargebacks is the way banks and credit cards are babysitting stupid customers who cannot choose good reputation sellers, or screwing sellers with fraudulent transactions.

Crazy fees and higher prices are the costs for such babysitting.



   

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September 24, 2011, 06:56:32 PM
 #45

I'm a Bitcoin fetishist, and even I wouldn't bother to use Bitcoin at a physical POS like this. What's the advantage over using a legacy currency?
I see plenty of reasons. Compared to credit cards it has lower fees and more anonymity.
Everyone I've seen accepting BTC at physical shops today convert their USD selling price--which already covers transaction fees for legacy payment methods--to BTC and exchanges the BTC to USD instantly after the sell. You pay the same, the merchant loses on the exchange commission and gets extra paperwork for the USD withdrawal. I could argue that carrying a cell phone and meeting up in person doesn't help on anonymity either, but that'd be silly as we all do it anyway. Smiley


I offer 10% discount for using Bitcoin, partly to get people interested in it and partly because of the benefits of Bitcoin over credit cards.

The shop has offered 5% off for cash since we opened. Accepting credit cards adds quite a bit to the overhead. The less they are used the better.

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Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
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September 24, 2011, 07:13:23 PM
 #46

Chargebacks are 90% "friendly fraud".  Buyers get stuff delivered to their home in their name and claim to the banks they didn't make the purchase.  Despite all the seller proof, the bank still sides with the criminal cardholder (my experience as a merchant).  Or other types of "friendly fraud" like the post office not doing their job scanning zip codes, or buyers forcing a refund for "not as described" and returning and empty box with tracking numbers.

The other 10% is when a merchant is stupid enough to think scamming people with credit card payments is a good idea.

Or it could be 99% and 1%.  I'm not sure, but it's mostly "friendly fraud".

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September 24, 2011, 10:53:36 PM
 #47

Imagine a computer 100% isolated from the network with a massive store of bitcoins. It can generate a transaction but instead of broadcasting to the network, it displays a QR code that a user can scan in and broadcast as proxy...

Nice imagining man! That's a good idea.   Smiley

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September 24, 2011, 11:35:47 PM
 #48

Chargebacks are never voluntary between both parties.  The merchant gets a huge chargeback fee and then are at risk of losing their merchant account for it.

Yes, but a good merchant doesn't let it get to the chargeback stage - they communicate with their customers and solve their problems. Any good  business has already calculated the cost of problems happening and is ready to deal with it.

I had a buyer in Brazil who reported an "item not received" (I know this is Paypal/Ebay not CC payment but this is an example), they reported it 2 days after the item shipped without contacting me beforehand.  There is no possible way it could have arrived in that amount of time, but still Paypal froze the funds in my account.  Now I had tracking so Paypal said as soon as the item shows in tracking as arrived they would release the funds...one problem Brazil never shows item as arrived...ever.  I tried communicating with the customer and he was unwilling and said if the item arrived he would remove his dispute.  Luckily for me he actually did...but then he bought another of the same item from my store...I talked with ebay/paypal about my options and ended up contacting the customer and explaining that due to our previous transaction and the inability to protect myself (even with a customs tracking form and tracking) I had to refuse to sell the item to him.


That problem would never have existed if I had been using Bitcoin.

People are scammers, in a perfect world you could communicate and solve disputes but this is not a perfect world.  There are people who do these thing specifically to cause problems. 

Also, exactly how much of a loss is "any good business" supposed to be able to cover.  If your business sells high value items you could very easily lose a large portion of your total revenue in one chargeback...and if you are  a small business trying to gain a foothold it could destroy your entire business over one scammer. 

In internet sales there has to be a mutual trust...chargebacks have their place but it has become increasingly more common for scammers to use them as a tool.  I would love to believe the customer is always right but after having dealt with people telling me items that are new in package "were used" and items in the hands of USPS "never arrived" I have become fearful of the risk. 

I preferred ebay when it was "buyer beware"...now its "seller beware".

I have a new method of dealing with Craigslist scammers too...when they message you with the standard scam message tell them "fine as long as they pay in BTC".
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