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Author Topic: Florida men arrested for trading bitcoins!!!!  (Read 5938 times)
johnyj
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February 08, 2014, 11:19:08 PM
#61

Money laundering IS a crime, a serious one, it is about turning black money into white, knowingly so.

If counterfeiting money legally by the central bank is not a crime (it is about turning nothing into white money), then any other crime is so trivial

I believe that AML law is an excuse to inspect everyone's financial activities legally, since the money printers would like to know where are those money went and if it will create heavy inflation and render their printed money useless




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flipstyle
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February 09, 2014, 12:01:01 AM
#62

http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/02/florida-targets-high-dollar-bitcoin-exchangers/


"According to court documents, the agent told Michelhack that he wanted to use the Bitcoins to purchase stolen credit cards online. After that trust-building transaction, Michelhack allegedly agreed to handle a much larger deal: Converting $30,000 in cash into Bitcoins."

there's the real story.


QFT.

ITT: fear mongering and propaganda for no damn reason.

Use bitcoins for 'illegal reasons', and expect the feds to be knocking at your door.  Acquire and sell your bitcoins legitimately, and enjoy early retirement.

Basic rules for life.
jongameson
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February 09, 2014, 01:42:16 AM
#63

You've got to be pretty damn stupid to take $30,000 in cash from someone who just flat out told you they're involved in credit card fraud. How did this guys ever even come into that much BTC?  Huh

new world order
franky1
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February 09, 2014, 03:05:13 AM
#64

Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them?  Huh

you can do a search on this forum and find hundreds of people talking about how they used silk road, and other nefarious websites. a few people even have drug related usernames and profile avatars too.

when people deal with drugs, the side effects are a decline in their IQ. so you will find many that like to boast about it because they stupidly think they will not get caught.

i feel no sympathy for those arrested that have blatantly not kept their illegal activities a secret. i feel no sympathy for others that break the law, but  respect them enough for being smart enough to not publicise it

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Don't take any information given on this forum on face value. Please do your own due diligence & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. If you wish to seek legal FACTUAL advice, then seek the guidance of a LEGAL specialist.
MyFarm
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February 09, 2014, 03:45:23 AM
#65

This is an example of why altcoins like Darkcoin will be successful.
2bfree
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February 09, 2014, 03:47:21 AM
#66

Another case of someone breaking the law,  and giving bitcoin a bad name as a result.  This gets in the news cause it has to do with bitcion,  but really it's a story of someone willingly and knowingly breaking the law.  If it was done with dollars and euro's it wouldn't be in the news. Add bitcoin to the mix and it's in the news  Undecided

The feds are breaking the law (constitution) get educated before taking people freedom

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wildlover
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February 09, 2014, 04:18:07 AM
#67


I called that nothing,but robbery!



DaFockBro
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February 09, 2014, 04:57:47 AM
#68

WHOOP! WHOOP! That's the sound of the po-lice!

WHOOP! WHOOP! That's the sound of the beast!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VRZq3J0uz4
pungopete468
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February 09, 2014, 07:36:31 AM
#69

So many people talking about how bad things are getting and yet so few are actually doing anything about it...

Does anybody know this person? Does anybody know somebody else who knows this person? Who is he? How strong are his morals? Does he have any prior criminal history?

Society should take an interest in these questions.

The world's not just going to correct itself.

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not."
Dr. Seuss

The BTC community needs to look out for one-another.

aliasme
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February 09, 2014, 08:17:19 AM
#70

Facts of Miami arrests:

1) Advertised selling BTC on localbitcoins.
2) Engaged in transaction to sell high volume.
3) Was informed of illegal intention by buyer.

They were operating as a service in an "exchanger" capacity, not a
"user". They were operating in a capacity that would probably meet the
definition of money transmission requiring licenses and registration
as a money service business ("MSB"). They were complicit in the act of
money laundering by failing to cancel the purchase transaction and
report the activity to the authorities under obligations outlined for
individuals or business acting as a MSB.

My interpretation of the Paragraph 3 below makes it pretty clear that conversion of BTC to legal tender does not by itself make a user (anyone mining or acquiring BTC) an exchanger, and subsequently a money transmitter. They were operating as a business and had obligations they failed to adhere to, notwithstanding the general common sense that one shouldn't be doing business with another party who states criminal intent.

---

FinCEN guidance:

FIN-2014-R001
Issued: January 30, 2014
Subject: Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Virtual Currency
Mining Operations

For purposes of the guidance, FinCEN refers to the participants in
generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms "exchanger,"
"administrator," and "user." An exchanger is a person engaged as a
business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds,
or other virtual currency. An administrator is a person engaged as a
business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and
who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such
virtual currency. A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to
purchase goods or services on the user's own behalf.

FinCEN understands that Bitcoin mining imposes no obligations on a
Bitcoin user to send mined Bitcoin to any other person or place for
the benefit of another. Instead, the user is free to use the mined
virtual currency or its equivalent for the user's own purposes, such
as to purchase real or virtual goods and services for the user's own
use. To the extent that a user mines Bitcoin and uses the Bitcoin
solely for the user's own purposes and not for the benefit of another,
the user is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations, because these
activities involve neither "acceptance" nor "transmission" of the
convertible virtual currency and are not the transmission of funds
within the meaning of the Rule. This is the case whether the user
mining and using the Bitcoin is an individual or a corporation, and
whether the user is purchasing goods or services for the user's own
use, paying debts previously incurred in the ordinary course of
business, or (in the case of a corporate user) making distributions to
shareholders. Activities that, in and of themselves, do not constitute
accepting and transmitting currency, funds or the value of funds, are
activities that do not fit within the definition of "money
transmission services" and therefore are not subject to FinCEN's
registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations for MSBs.8

From time to time, as your letter has indicated, it may be necessary
for a user to convert Bitcoin that it has mined into a real currency
or another convertible virtual currency, either because the seller of
the goods or services the user wishes to purchase will not accept
Bitcoin, or because the user wishes to diversify currency holdings in
anticipation of future needs or for the user's own investment
purposes. In undertaking such a conversion transaction, the user is
not acting as an exchanger, notwithstanding the fact that the user is
accepting a real currency or another convertible virtual currency and
transmitting Bitcoin, so long as the user is undertaking the
transaction solely for the user's own purposes and not as a business
service performed for the benefit of another. A user's conversion of
Bitcoin into a real currency or another convertible virtual currency,
therefore, does not in and of itself make the user a money
transmitter.9

FinCEN therefore concludes that, under the facts you have provided,
[the Company] would be a user of Bitcoin, and not an MSB, to the
extent that it uses Bitcoin it has mined: (a) to pay for the purchase
of goods or services, pay debts it has previously incurred (including
debts to its owner(s)), or make distributions to owners; or (b) to
purchase real currency or another convertible virtual currency, so
long as the real currency or other convertible virtual currency is
used solely in order to make payments (as set forth above) or for [the
Company]'s own investment purposes. Any transfers to third parties at
the behest of sellers, creditors, owners, or counterparties involved
in these transactions should be closely scrutinized, as they may
constitute money transmission.
guybrushthreepwood
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February 09, 2014, 12:23:02 PM
#71

Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them?  Huh

It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy.

WeBTC
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February 09, 2014, 12:42:36 PM
#72

i do not know how this is legal
stompix
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February 09, 2014, 01:03:36 PM
#73

Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them?  Huh

It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy.

Most of the crimes are committed by people getting to greedy for their own safety and forgetting about laws for some quick $$$.
And as many people already said it , criminals are not always the smartest people in the world.

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guybrushthreepwood
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February 09, 2014, 01:46:43 PM
#74

Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them?  Huh

It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy.

Most of the crimes are committed by people getting to greedy for their own safety and forgetting about laws for some quick $$$.
And as many people already said it , criminals are not always the smartest people in the world.

Sometimes criminals are the smartest people. Just those ones don't get caught.

stompix
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February 09, 2014, 01:57:47 PM
#75

Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them?  Huh

It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy.

Most of the crimes are committed by people getting to greedy for their own safety and forgetting about laws for some quick $$$.
And as many people already said it , criminals are not always the smartest people in the world.

Sometimes criminals are the smartest people. Just those ones don't get caught.

Those are not criminals. Cause , it's innocent before proven guilty right? And with them not being caught yet...=))))))

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ACCEPT
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  .CRYPTOCURRENCY..
███████████████████████████
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guybrushthreepwood
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February 09, 2014, 02:18:19 PM
#76

Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them?  Huh

It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy.

Most of the crimes are committed by people getting to greedy for their own safety and forgetting about laws for some quick $$$.
And as many people already said it , criminals are not always the smartest people in the world.

Sometimes criminals are the smartest people. Just those ones don't get caught.

Those are not criminals. Cause , it's innocent before proven guilty right? And with them not being caught yet...=))))))

Maybe in the eyes of the law. Just because you haven't been caught yet that doesn't make you not a criminal.

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February 09, 2014, 03:22:50 PM
#77

The Criminal complaints are attached to this article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/localbitcoinscom-targeted-by-feds-2014-2
DeathAndTaxes
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February 09, 2014, 08:48:49 PM
#78

The Criminal complaints are attached to this article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/localbitcoinscom-targeted-by-feds-2014-2

Wow that is bad.   The undercover officer provided multiple mentions of stolen credit cards, and provided enough details (even offering to trade stolen CC for Bitcoins directly) that there is no chance the seller though he was "joking".  A single statement might be a joke.  Multiple statements with details over the course of two months?  He knew.
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February 09, 2014, 08:50:51 PM
#79

The Criminal complaints are attached to this article.

http://www.businessinsider.com/localbitcoinscom-targeted-by-feds-2014-2

Wow that is bad.   The undercover officer provided multiple mentions of stolen credit cards, and provided enough details (even offering to trade stolen CC for Bitcoins directly) that there is no chance the seller though he was "joking".  A single statement might be a joke.  Multiple statements with details over the course of two months?  He knew.

Yes in undercover stings cops typically make sure they say things multiple times. The excuse of "i thought he was joking" never holds up in court.

Hourly bitcoin faucet with a gambling twist !  http://freebitco.in/?r=106463
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February 09, 2014, 09:55:32 PM
#80

I would like to point on some questionable aspects of this police action based only on known official revealings and assuming that this time they didn't lied as they recognized to have lied during the investigation:
- it seems that they consider Bitcoin as money when they like and not when they don't like, depending which is more profitable without consideration on justice
- money laundering is a relatively new concept established in a very opportunistic way to bring more money to the state, less risky instead of  pursuing real criminals better cash from those who could be eventually criminals
The justice in the society worked very well without this concept also but the police had to work instead to cash only.
- if you teach your children's not to lie should you say also that only a policeman(lawyers, politicians and bankers also) may lie ?
- nobody is born as criminal and anybody can become under certain circumstances
Using an agent provocateur to animate the suspect who could be a criminal to make a crime is very questionable. This crime would be never happened without the motivation of the agent provocateur engaged by the police.

Now imagine in a future state that provocateurs of the police animate everybody to commit a real crime(to kill somebody).
At least 10% of the population would be dead or arrested.

Representatives of the law should show good example instead of bad example then the society will be better.

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