johnyj
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Merit: 1012
Beyond Imagination
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February 08, 2014, 11:19:08 PM |
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Money laundering IS a crime, a serious one, it is about turning black money into white, knowingly so.
If counterfeiting money legally by the central bank is not a crime (it is about turning nothing into white money), then any other crime is so trivial I believe that AML law is an excuse to inspect everyone's financial activities legally, since the money printers would like to know where are those money went and if it will create heavy inflation and render their printed money useless
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Unlike traditional banking where clients have only a few account numbers, with Bitcoin people can create an unlimited number of accounts (addresses). This can be used to easily track payments, and it improves anonymity.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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flipstyle
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February 09, 2014, 12:01:01 AM |
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QFT. ITT: fear mongering and propaganda for no damn reason. Use bitcoins for 'illegal reasons', and expect the feds to be knocking at your door. Acquire and sell your bitcoins legitimately, and enjoy early retirement. Basic rules for life.
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jongameson
Member
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Activity: 84
Merit: 10
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February 09, 2014, 01:42:16 AM |
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You've got to be pretty damn stupid to take $30,000 in cash from someone who just flat out told you they're involved in credit card fraud. How did this guys ever even come into that much BTC? new world order
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franky1
Legendary
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Activity: 4214
Merit: 4470
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February 09, 2014, 03:05:13 AM |
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Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them? you can do a search on this forum and find hundreds of people talking about how they used silk road, and other nefarious websites. a few people even have drug related usernames and profile avatars too. when people deal with drugs, the side effects are a decline in their IQ. so you will find many that like to boast about it because they stupidly think they will not get caught. i feel no sympathy for those arrested that have blatantly not kept their illegal activities a secret. i feel no sympathy for others that break the law, but respect them enough for being smart enough to not publicise it
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I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER. Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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MyFarm
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February 09, 2014, 03:45:23 AM |
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This is an example of why altcoins like Darkcoin will be successful.
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2bfree
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February 09, 2014, 03:47:21 AM |
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Another case of someone breaking the law, and giving bitcoin a bad name as a result. This gets in the news cause it has to do with bitcion, but really it's a story of someone willingly and knowingly breaking the law. If it was done with dollars and euro's it wouldn't be in the news. Add bitcoin to the mix and it's in the news The feds are breaking the law (constitution) get educated before taking people freedom
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wildlover
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Activity: 4
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February 09, 2014, 04:18:07 AM Last edit: February 09, 2014, 05:16:08 AM by wildlover |
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I called that nothing,but robbery!
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pungopete468
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February 09, 2014, 07:36:31 AM |
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So many people talking about how bad things are getting and yet so few are actually doing anything about it...
Does anybody know this person? Does anybody know somebody else who knows this person? Who is he? How strong are his morals? Does he have any prior criminal history?
Society should take an interest in these questions.
The world's not just going to correct itself.
"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not." Dr. Seuss
The BTC community needs to look out for one-another.
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. ..1xBit.com Super Six.. | ▄█████████████▄ ████████████▀▀▀ █████████████▄ █████████▌▀████ ██████████ ▀██ ██████████▌ ▀ ████████████▄▄ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ▀██████████████ | ███████████████ █████████████▀ █████▀▀ ███▀ ▄███ ▄ ██▄▄████▌ ▄█ ████████ ████████▌ █████████ ▐█ ██████████ ▐█ ███████▀▀ ▄██ ███▀ ▄▄▄█████ ███ ▄██████████ ███████████████ | ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████▀▀▀█ ██████████ ███████████▄▄▄█ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ ███████████████ | ▄█████ ▄██████ ▄███████ ▄████████ ▄█████████ ▄██████████ ▄███████████ ▄████████████ ▄█████████████ ▄██████████████ ▀▀███████████ ▀▀███████ ▀▀██▀ | ▄▄██▌ ▄▄███████ █████████▀ ▄██▄▄▀▀██▀▀ ▄██████ ▄▄▄ ███████ ▄█▄ ▄ ▀██████ █ ▀█ ▀▀▀ ▄ ▀▄▄█▀ ▄▄█████▄ ▀▀▀ ▀████████ ▀█████▀ ████ ▀▀▀ █████ █████ | ▄ █▄▄ █ ▄ ▀▄██▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀ ▀ ▄▄█████▄█▄▄ ▄ ▄███▀ ▀▀ ▀▀▄ ▄██▄███▄ ▀▀▀▀▄ ▄▄ ▄████████▄▄▄▄▄█▄▄▄██ ████████████▀▀ █ ▐█ ██████████████▄ ▄▄▀██▄██ ▐██████████████ ▄███ ████▀████████████▄███▀ ▀█▀ ▐█████████████▀ ▐████████████▀ ▀█████▀▀▀ █▀ | . Premier League LaLiga Serie A | . Bundesliga Ligue 1 Primeira Liga | | . ..TAKE PART.. |
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aliasme
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February 09, 2014, 08:17:19 AM |
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Facts of Miami arrests:
1) Advertised selling BTC on localbitcoins. 2) Engaged in transaction to sell high volume. 3) Was informed of illegal intention by buyer.
They were operating as a service in an "exchanger" capacity, not a "user". They were operating in a capacity that would probably meet the definition of money transmission requiring licenses and registration as a money service business ("MSB"). They were complicit in the act of money laundering by failing to cancel the purchase transaction and report the activity to the authorities under obligations outlined for individuals or business acting as a MSB.
My interpretation of the Paragraph 3 below makes it pretty clear that conversion of BTC to legal tender does not by itself make a user (anyone mining or acquiring BTC) an exchanger, and subsequently a money transmitter. They were operating as a business and had obligations they failed to adhere to, notwithstanding the general common sense that one shouldn't be doing business with another party who states criminal intent.
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FinCEN guidance:
FIN-2014-R001 Issued: January 30, 2014 Subject: Application of FinCEN's Regulations to Virtual Currency Mining Operations
For purposes of the guidance, FinCEN refers to the participants in generic virtual currency arrangements, using the terms "exchanger," "administrator," and "user." An exchanger is a person engaged as a business in the exchange of virtual currency for real currency, funds, or other virtual currency. An administrator is a person engaged as a business in issuing (putting into circulation) a virtual currency, and who has the authority to redeem (to withdraw from circulation) such virtual currency. A user is a person that obtains virtual currency to purchase goods or services on the user's own behalf.
FinCEN understands that Bitcoin mining imposes no obligations on a Bitcoin user to send mined Bitcoin to any other person or place for the benefit of another. Instead, the user is free to use the mined virtual currency or its equivalent for the user's own purposes, such as to purchase real or virtual goods and services for the user's own use. To the extent that a user mines Bitcoin and uses the Bitcoin solely for the user's own purposes and not for the benefit of another, the user is not an MSB under FinCEN's regulations, because these activities involve neither "acceptance" nor "transmission" of the convertible virtual currency and are not the transmission of funds within the meaning of the Rule. This is the case whether the user mining and using the Bitcoin is an individual or a corporation, and whether the user is purchasing goods or services for the user's own use, paying debts previously incurred in the ordinary course of business, or (in the case of a corporate user) making distributions to shareholders. Activities that, in and of themselves, do not constitute accepting and transmitting currency, funds or the value of funds, are activities that do not fit within the definition of "money transmission services" and therefore are not subject to FinCEN's registration, reporting, and recordkeeping regulations for MSBs.8
From time to time, as your letter has indicated, it may be necessary for a user to convert Bitcoin that it has mined into a real currency or another convertible virtual currency, either because the seller of the goods or services the user wishes to purchase will not accept Bitcoin, or because the user wishes to diversify currency holdings in anticipation of future needs or for the user's own investment purposes. In undertaking such a conversion transaction, the user is not acting as an exchanger, notwithstanding the fact that the user is accepting a real currency or another convertible virtual currency and transmitting Bitcoin, so long as the user is undertaking the transaction solely for the user's own purposes and not as a business service performed for the benefit of another. A user's conversion of Bitcoin into a real currency or another convertible virtual currency, therefore, does not in and of itself make the user a money transmitter.9
FinCEN therefore concludes that, under the facts you have provided, [the Company] would be a user of Bitcoin, and not an MSB, to the extent that it uses Bitcoin it has mined: (a) to pay for the purchase of goods or services, pay debts it has previously incurred (including debts to its owner(s)), or make distributions to owners; or (b) to purchase real currency or another convertible virtual currency, so long as the real currency or other convertible virtual currency is used solely in order to make payments (as set forth above) or for [the Company]'s own investment purposes. Any transfers to third parties at the behest of sellers, creditors, owners, or counterparties involved in these transactions should be closely scrutinized, as they may constitute money transmission.
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guybrushthreepwood
Legendary
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Activity: 1232
Merit: 1195
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February 09, 2014, 12:23:02 PM |
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Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them? It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy.
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WeBTC
Newbie
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Activity: 14
Merit: 0
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February 09, 2014, 12:42:36 PM |
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i do not know how this is legal
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stompix
Legendary
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Activity: 2884
Merit: 6294
Blackjack.fun
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February 09, 2014, 01:03:36 PM |
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Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them? It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy. Most of the crimes are committed by people getting to greedy for their own safety and forgetting about laws for some quick $$$. And as many people already said it , criminals are not always the smartest people in the world.
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. .BLACKJACK ♠ FUN. | | | ███▄██████ ██████████████▀ ████████████ █████████████████ ████████████████▄▄ ░█████████████▀░▀▀ ██████████████████ ░██████████████ █████████████████▄ ░██████████████▀ ████████████ ███████████████░██ ██████████ | | CRYPTO CASINO & SPORTS BETTING | | │ | | │ | ▄▄███████▄▄ ▄███████████████▄ ███████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ▀███████████████▀ ███████████████████ | | .
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guybrushthreepwood
Legendary
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Activity: 1232
Merit: 1195
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February 09, 2014, 01:46:43 PM |
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Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them? It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy. Most of the crimes are committed by people getting to greedy for their own safety and forgetting about laws for some quick $$$. And as many people already said it , criminals are not always the smartest people in the world. Sometimes criminals are the smartest people. Just those ones don't get caught.
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stompix
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Activity: 2884
Merit: 6294
Blackjack.fun
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February 09, 2014, 01:57:47 PM |
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Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them? It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy. Most of the crimes are committed by people getting to greedy for their own safety and forgetting about laws for some quick $$$. And as many people already said it , criminals are not always the smartest people in the world. Sometimes criminals are the smartest people. Just those ones don't get caught. Those are not criminals. Cause , it's innocent before proven guilty right? And with them not being caught yet...=))))))
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. .BLACKJACK ♠ FUN. | | | ███▄██████ ██████████████▀ ████████████ █████████████████ ████████████████▄▄ ░█████████████▀░▀▀ ██████████████████ ░██████████████ █████████████████▄ ░██████████████▀ ████████████ ███████████████░██ ██████████ | | CRYPTO CASINO & SPORTS BETTING | | │ | | │ | ▄▄███████▄▄ ▄███████████████▄ ███████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ █████████████████████████ ███████████████████████ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ▀███████████████▀ ███████████████████ | | .
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guybrushthreepwood
Legendary
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Activity: 1232
Merit: 1195
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February 09, 2014, 02:18:19 PM |
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Sounds like a made-up story. What kind of criminal would be that stupid to tell you the purpose of the bitcoin purchase? And who would be that stupid to believe such a claim and still sell coin to them? It was a set up and that was their sting. They just got greedy. Most of the crimes are committed by people getting to greedy for their own safety and forgetting about laws for some quick $$$. And as many people already said it , criminals are not always the smartest people in the world. Sometimes criminals are the smartest people. Just those ones don't get caught. Those are not criminals. Cause , it's innocent before proven guilty right? And with them not being caught yet...=)))))) Maybe in the eyes of the law. Just because you haven't been caught yet that doesn't make you not a criminal.
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mrefish
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Activity: 27
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February 09, 2014, 03:22:50 PM |
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DeathAndTaxes
Donator
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Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
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February 09, 2014, 08:48:49 PM |
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Wow that is bad. The undercover officer provided multiple mentions of stolen credit cards, and provided enough details (even offering to trade stolen CC for Bitcoins directly) that there is no chance the seller though he was "joking". A single statement might be a joke. Multiple statements with details over the course of two months? He knew.
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BTCisthefuture
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February 09, 2014, 08:50:51 PM |
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Wow that is bad. The undercover officer provided multiple mentions of stolen credit cards, and provided enough details (even offering to trade stolen CC for Bitcoins directly) that there is no chance the seller though he was "joking". A single statement might be a joke. Multiple statements with details over the course of two months? He knew. Yes in undercover stings cops typically make sure they say things multiple times. The excuse of "i thought he was joking" never holds up in court.
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virtualmaster
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February 09, 2014, 09:55:32 PM |
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I would like to point on some questionable aspects of this police action based only on known official revealings and assuming that this time they didn't lied as they recognized to have lied during the investigation: - it seems that they consider Bitcoin as money when they like and not when they don't like, depending which is more profitable without consideration on justice - money laundering is a relatively new concept established in a very opportunistic way to bring more money to the state, less risky instead of pursuing real criminals better cash from those who could be eventually criminals The justice in the society worked very well without this concept also but the police had to work instead to cash only. - if you teach your children's not to lie should you say also that only a policeman(lawyers, politicians and bankers also) may lie ? - nobody is born as criminal and anybody can become under certain circumstances Using an agent provocateur to animate the suspect who could be a criminal to make a crime is very questionable. This crime would be never happened without the motivation of the agent provocateur engaged by the police.
Now imagine in a future state that provocateurs of the police animate everybody to commit a real crime(to kill somebody). At least 10% of the population would be dead or arrested.
Representatives of the law should show good example instead of bad example then the society will be better.
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