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Author Topic: AML/KYC Explained  (Read 172735 times)
Zorrocoin
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November 09, 2015, 02:08:27 PM
 #41

I'm always weary of any regulations about bitcoin. Nonetheless, it is nice to have a few regulated companies to buy and sell btc/usd from.

Of course, nothing is going to prevent a mt. gox like situation though.
I think AML/KYC are just excuses to keep the smaller ventures away from the main competition (monopoly anyone?). At times the rules and their rigidity can mean hindrance more than facilitating. Most times they just make it harder than ease your transactions.
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December 05, 2015, 03:12:27 AM
 #42

I'm always weary of any regulations about bitcoin. Nonetheless, it is nice to have a few regulated companies to buy and sell btc/usd from.

Of course, nothing is going to prevent a mt. gox like situation though.
I think AML/KYC are just excuses to keep the smaller ventures away from the main competition (monopoly anyone?). At times the rules and their rigidity can mean hindrance more than facilitating. Most times they just make it harder than ease your transactions.

its really just banks piling on imo.

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April 09, 2016, 06:54:02 PM
 #43

Assume that restrictions for any Bitcoin to National Currency exchange may become more restrictive at any time in the future.

What an extraordinarily useful "Heads-Up," and seriously so.

I certainly wouldn't want to muddy up the discussion with any too off-hand speculation, but if one may endeavor to extrapolate as towards any application of this knowledge: In noticing that each transaction e.g at Kraken might be, to any extent, publicly - though anonymously - advertised at least via the Kraken web API -- perhaps, with some exceptions?* -- and there may be some fairly novel, if not altogether technical things found online as with regards to any manner of a system of material provenance, ostensibly applicable as towards a manner of a data forensics, namely as among developments of a sort of a Semantic Web standards-making community -- e.g the PROV-O ontology developed in the W3C standards track -- moreover, in considering the essentially transparent though immediately anonymous nature of transactions onto the Blockchain, in short, I believe that the Blockchain is already doing a lot of the book-keeping, itself? Sure, it doesn't all bridge the gap onto individual identity, but I believe it's not as though anyone was trying to keep any Bitcoin transactions "Secret" altogether?

I certainly wouldn't want it to seem like a "Buzkill" that so many transactions on a Blockchain may be already publicly advertised - as may be necessary to the authentication algorithms applied throughout the numerous finite state machines that make up the quintessential "Bitcoin System". I believe it could pose a concern as with regards to data mining, as such, but hopefully such a concern may never develop too tall of a shadow in the Bitcoin community?

Considering that an AML/KYC burden must be legally and somehow shared as a responsibility, shared as by any hypothetical Bitcoin exchange broker extending of any single Bitcoin exchange's own material services, I would like to speculate that it could be - in any semantics - leveraged onto the trust provided/developed by the individual Bitcoin exchange institution? There are some concepts of a Web of Trust, developed in some IS/IT practices?

I believe that the initial post serves to elucidate so much of a legal side of running a formal, commercial service onto a Blockchain. Certainly, it's not all about Unicorns and Silk Superhighways, LoL?

* Maybe not as much publicly available about the "Dark" Bitcoin/altcoin currencies though?

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April 16, 2016, 09:32:07 AM
 #44


And here is the problem.  If you are a normal, 9-5, go home to the wife and kids guy, then you will probably fit the guidelines/expectations perfectly.

If you are (like me and many others), an expat in Asia, using bank accounts in very Third World countries, you are shit out of luck.  Can I get verified at Coinbase, Bitstamp or other major exchange?  Not likely.  I get forced to BTC-e because I don't fit the normal profile.

If I could get a KYC support person to listen to my story, and make some allowance for it, it would be easy.  Unfortunately, that would take 30 minutes which they don't want to give.  The questions usually go like this:

Why don't you have a US bank account?  Why do you have an account in Cambodia and Vietnam?

-- Because I haven't lived in the US in 8 years.  I split time between those countries.

I need a utility bill and a copy of your passport.

-- Here is the passport.  I don't have a utility bill in my name.  It is normal here that utility bills stay in the landlord's name.  Since mail is never actually delivered, I pick them up at the utility office anyway.  What can i give you instead? A copy of my lease, notarized?  A letter from the local police?  Name it.

Sorry, sir.  Our rules state that a utility bill is required.  We will not be able to allow you to transfer your money back to your account from the exchange.  Fuck off, money laundering scum.

Expected profiles and expected behavior suck.

I know what you mean. I live in third world country too. This KYC policy seems to mean that soon enough btc will no longer be anonymous, fine by me, if they are not requesting for utility bill to prove my address. I can give them a government ID though.
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April 19, 2016, 08:35:21 PM
 #45

AML/KYC like others have said.. It's nothing more than a form of control that turns Banks into, illegal spy police arms of the government. We all should eject out of this corrupt system, and crowd fund lobbyist to payoff the government like the criminals, and change the laws. Then start publicly owned and funded banks.   The real criminals are the corrupt politicians in government, or monopolistic large sized criminal organizations paying off the government. This cuts down on their competition. They don't have to follow this bs, this isn't about terrorism funding, or any other crap. Look at HSBC they get busted all the time by whistle blowers, for real money laundering for these above mentioned organizations. Nothing happens, no one goes to jail. They pay a small fine, and  business as usual ..  

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April 19, 2016, 08:42:26 PM
 #46

When you fill out one of these forms for KYC how long does it take till the government has a copy?
Just trying to figure out if they file the information or actually send it forward. Hoping its one of those issues where people just make sure they file the information in case of audit but something tells me they send any transaction over 10K forward for further scrutiny.


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April 19, 2016, 08:50:46 PM
 #47

AML/KYC U.S. laws..

I guess I should point out some things I know about this..

Banks have software that run on all accounts, looking for structuring.. I.e cash deposit for a certain amounts, over a period of time. Or large cash deposits through multiple, atms etc.   This flags accounts..   Also tellers who think your up to something, are also compelled to report on you. If you take out large amounts of cash, they report on you also.  Account mangers have to audit any flagged account, based on a set of hush hush rules, and report. Like if you deposit as little as 2000.00 in cash, if that's not normal for that account. They also have to report on certain amount's to the Irs. Which everyone thinks is only for 10k dollars, but there are different reports for like 5k, or smaller.  Once you've been flagged if I remember correctly, report's go to three types of agencies. Law enforcement, Homeland Security,and IRS.  



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April 19, 2016, 09:14:24 PM
 #48

I just thought of another set of regulations brought on by AML/KYC crap..  The "insert corrupt US agencies here".. came up with a list of target businesses they didn't like, because they were mostly cash type businesses. They label them risky, or something along those lines. They've then compelled banks, to treat them as suspicious, or criminal even pulling loans, or closing account. Here are the businesses ..

 I found the list..  I just read they got sued, and was called Operation Choke Point!

Here is a list of businesses targeted by Operation Choke Point:

Gun stores

•  Ammunition Sales

•  Cable Box De-scramblers

•  Coin Dealers

•  Credit Card Schemes

•  Credit Repair Services

•  Dating Services

•  Debt Consolidation Scams

•  Drug Paraphernalia

•  Escort Services

•  Firearms Sales

•  Fireworks Sales

•  Get Rich Products

•  Government Grants

•  Home-Based Charities

•  Life-Time Guarantees

•  Life-Time Memberships

•  Lottery Sales

•  Mailing Lists/Personal Info

•  Money Transfer Networks

•  On-line Gambling

•  Payday Loans

•  Pharmaceutical Sales

•  Ponzi Schemes

•  Pornography

•  Pyramid-Type Sales

•  Racist Materials

•  Surveillance Equipment

•  Telemarketing

•  Tobacco Sales

•  Travel Clubs



BunkerChain.Labs.Inc.
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May 02, 2016, 12:48:28 PM
 #49

I agree that a lot of the AML KYC stuff can sometimes seem pointless. It is like an old system trying to keep track of everyone.

Did anybody catch the article about how 90% of the Bitcoin companies are meaningless because all of them are subject to AML/KYC?

https://news.bitcoin.com/tone-vays-90-bitcoin-cos-meaningless/

This coming from a Wall Street guy too.

What you think? Do we rage against the machine? Or play Trojan horse?
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May 23, 2016, 03:34:31 AM
 #50

it's 11 million per breach here in Australia for a corporation and a single transaction can involve multiple breaches.

Hi repentance: I think you are in the know of how financial institution works and talk candid - the combination doesn't come easy. I am related to financial institutes in Australia and I'm a bitcoin early-adopter/supporter/consultant/journalist (google me Weiwu Zhang). I wish to get in touch with you:) You blocks private messages so I am trying my luck with a pubic post.

My (old) column about Bitcoin & China: http://bitcoinblog.de/tag/zhangweiwuengl/
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June 02, 2016, 08:54:48 PM
 #51

Thanks for your post, Maged. I'm curious how KYC/AML regulations come into play for Bitcoin traders on LocalBitcoins/Paxful. Are there any existing threads that provide more information about what a trader has to go through to legally buy and sell Bitcoins on LocalBitcoin/Paxful?

I'm contemplating getting involved in buying and selling Bitcoins to earn profit, and I'd like to get an idea of how many hoops the high-volume sellers I see on LocalBitcoins have to go through. I've done a few trades where I sell bitcoins for cash, and it doesn't seem like the buyers collect much information or have an extensive process for verification.


Edit: Also, is there an easy way to see the latest post in threads that I've posted in? On other forums, you can alter the settings to subscribe you to a thread when you post, then you can easily be directly to the new posts, so you can easily keep up with the thread.

This is one of the largest forums I've been a part of, and I'm noticing myself getting lost in trying to keep up with conversations.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out!  Smiley
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July 10, 2016, 05:30:54 AM
 #52

Nothing is going to prevent a mt. gox like situation though. It depends on your risk profile if you get into trouble or not. I'm contemplating getting involved in buying and selling Bitcoins to earn profit. This is one of the largest forums I've been a part of. I hope this would be a good experience for me.
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July 24, 2016, 06:46:41 AM
 #53


Sorry, sir.  Our rules state that a utility bill is required.  We will not be able to allow you to transfer your money back to your account from the exchange.  Fuck off, money laundering scum.


You understand the system well. I feel bad for your situation but the fact is that those exchanges don't really care enough to bother with customers in your situation.

BJ
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September 20, 2016, 11:26:42 PM
 #54

KYC/AML is something you can not avoid or its more and more hard

I personally have nothing against it, but my biggest concerns is privacy and security of that organization and firm that hold and keep my data
so far many hacked or leaked aml data, even banks here where I am from have lazy security, last month they trowed out old visa debit cards in a trash bin Sad

Its a disaster, and insane FBI/goverment/USA they don`t care at all, they are more and more squizing for more info


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September 24, 2016, 01:38:02 PM
 #55

When you fill out one of these forms for KYC how long does it take till the government has a copy?
Just trying to figure out if they file the information or actually send it forward. Hoping its one of those issues where people just make sure they file the information in case of audit but something tells me they send any transaction over 10K forward for further scrutiny.



Very nicely put together and explained.  This is the only problem as I see it. 


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September 25, 2016, 04:44:45 PM
 #56

Not a problem with your thread, just a statement on the rule system.  I have been to the silk road type sites on the DW. 


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September 28, 2016, 03:31:20 PM
 #57

AML/KYC U.S. laws..

I guess I should point out some things I know about this..

Banks have software that run on all accounts, looking for structuring.. I.e cash deposit for a certain amounts, over a period of time. Or large cash deposits through multiple, atms etc.   This flags accounts..   Also tellers who think your up to something, are also compelled to report on you. If you take out large amounts of cash, they report on you also.  Account mangers have to audit any flagged account, based on a set of hush hush rules, and report. Like if you deposit as little as 2000.00 in cash, if that's not normal for that account. They also have to report on certain amount's to the Irs. Which everyone thinks is only for 10k dollars, but there are different reports for like 5k, or smaller.  Once you've been flagged if I remember correctly, report's go to three types of agencies. Law enforcement, Homeland Security,and IRS.  



This is 1984 /Big brother in your face !
You can buy a person’s info, SSN and everything for $1. You can get nice copies of ID’s, SSN card and other stuff, all for the same person for under $10.  I don’t buy them, but I see them and most of those sellers have good feedback.

The sites put the frameworks up there to comply and really could not care about the purpose and only follow through to that point of continuing to do business.

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October 01, 2016, 07:28:35 AM
 #58

AML/KYC U.S. laws..

I guess I should point out some things I know about this..

Banks have software that run on all accounts, looking for structuring.. I.e cash deposit for a certain amounts, over a period of time. Or large cash deposits through multiple, atms etc.   This flags accounts..   Also tellers who think your up to something, are also compelled to report on you. If you take out large amounts of cash, they report on you also.  Account mangers have to audit any flagged account, based on a set of hush hush rules, and report. Like if you deposit as little as 2000.00 in cash, if that's not normal for that account. They also have to report on certain amount's to the Irs. Which everyone thinks is only for 10k dollars, but there are different reports for like 5k, or smaller.  Once you've been flagged if I remember correctly, report's go to three types of agencies. Law enforcement, Homeland Security,and IRS.  



This is 1984 /Big brother in your face !
You can buy a person’s info, SSN and everything for $1. You can get nice copies of ID’s, SSN card and other stuff, all for the same person for under $10.  I don’t buy them, but I see them and most of those sellers have good feedback.

The sites put the frameworks up there to comply and really could not care about the purpose and only follow through to that point of continuing to do business.

So, if I were a criminal and wanted to launder money I am most likely aware of the same things that I just stated and producing the things that these exchanges and sites need would be a piece of cake.

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Sweetbtc
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October 01, 2016, 09:44:46 AM
 #59

If I were the type that needs to launder money I surely have the knowledge and tools to turn a simple ID picture into whatever is needed and things like utility bills, well there are ten electric companies here in Florida and if I cannot download a bill template online I would be amazed. 


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virasog
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October 02, 2016, 06:34:53 AM
 #60

Whether the sites care or not, it is the people that are breaking the laws that have the easiest access to the tools to meet almost any verification online. Why did my fake ID not work buying beer when I was 16?  Because I had to use it in person.  Online, people have the time to do what they need to get around the rules. 


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