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Author Topic: AML/KYC Explained  (Read 196189 times)
virasog
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October 03, 2016, 06:07:19 PM
 #61

I am not making a statement one way or another about gun control, just using it as an example.  Gun control rules create a set of circumstances that means law abiding citizens have fewer guns and criminals have more.  The thing about a criminal is that rules do not matter to them.


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October 24, 2016, 02:19:43 PM
 #62


And here is the problem.  If you are a normal, 9-5, go home to the wife and kids guy, then you will probably fit the guidelines/expectations perfectly.

If you are (like me and many others), an expat in Asia, using bank accounts in very Third World countries, you are shit out of luck.  Can I get verified at Coinbase, Bitstamp or other major exchange?  Not likely.  I get forced to BTC-e because I don't fit the normal profile.

If I could get a KYC support person to listen to my story, and make some allowance for it, it would be easy.  Unfortunately, that would take 30 minutes which they don't want to give.  The questions usually go like this:

Why don't you have a US bank account?  Why do you have an account in Cambodia and Vietnam?

-- Because I haven't lived in the US in 8 years.  I split time between those countries.

I need a utility bill and a copy of your passport.

-- Here is the passport.  I don't have a utility bill in my name.  It is normal here that utility bills stay in the landlord's name.  Since mail is never actually delivered, I pick them up at the utility office anyway.  What can i give you instead? A copy of my lease, notarized?  A letter from the local police?  Name it.

Sorry, sir.  Our rules state that a utility bill is required.  We will not be able to allow you to transfer your money back to your account from the exchange.  Fuck off, money laundering scum.

Expected profiles and expected behavior suck.

I know what you mean. I live in third world country too. This KYC policy seems to mean that soon enough btc will no longer be anonymous, fine by me, if they are not requesting for utility bill to prove my address. I can give them a government ID though.

I am an Asian, normally working as an expat in the Global South (Africa, South Asia, Souteast Asian) and I can tell you that in the past 15 years, KYC efforts from online payment options have been a very difficult process for me.

They do range from the merely inconvenient to what I feel is outright scammy (I refer to old-timer Paypal who would happily take a deposit or payment with zero KYC, then force you to provide all manner of impossible documentations the moment you try to access your funds).

In the age of digital bills, providing a physical sample of address is tedious process. I can't bear to think of the amount of time and money spent trying to convince an online payer/exchanger that I'm not a scary fake guy trying to abscond with 20 USD.

Forget using VPNs or travelling... access your account from another IP and these guys close down on you. They need better algorithms for one, but before that they need to be upfront about KYC. Don't surprise clients.

And yes, a good point about anonymity. What happened to the spirit of crypto?

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November 20, 2016, 08:39:16 AM
 #63

The financial institutions are agents of the government and AML/KYC is one such rods handed to them to beat people into line, so that a tab is kept on every of their dealings for scrutiny anytime. It gives government power to poke nose into people's financial dealings and not in the least a form of protection for people finances. That is what they are missing out in bitcoin and ever since them, they have been visibly agitated and fighting hard to circumvent this freedom.

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iamTom123
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December 09, 2016, 02:48:58 PM
 #64

Reading the main post, I realized that here in my country many financial institutions are now implementing the same procedures. Even small pawnshops here have their own Know Your Pawner which is the same as KYC. I think this really has something to do with money laundering issues especially connected with drugs and terrorism, among many other factors.

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December 16, 2016, 08:56:26 PM
 #65

 What a contentious issue everyone!  And glad that there are so many interested bodies in learning more about protecting one's privacy and freedom of choice. 

   As mentioned by many other folks, the larger issue at hand is the freedom of choice to do what one wants with their employment earnings.  You can invest in almost anything in today's day and age, and try and earn a profit on it, including Tickle Me Elmo's Dolls, Barbie Dolls, and even Postage Stamps, Hockey Cards, or whatever you want.  The main idea is that you get to choose what you want to buy and collect without having people breathing down your neck about your own particular purchasing styles.

The problem with Crypto is that it got a bad rep early on by people who abused the system, but this also happens in the regular commercial banking industry, where big banks are continuously being caught in white-collar crime and fraud activities, so the issue is really a moot point.
 

Have you heard about Alcurex exchange? 

It is no AML/KYC and links to Poloniex, Bittrex, and offers high liquidity trading for US residents, and people all over the world. 

alcurex works for me

I Trade on Alcurex.com - The Best Exchange
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December 17, 2016, 09:59:12 AM
 #66

What a contentious issue everyone!  And glad that there are so many interested bodies in learning more about protecting one's privacy and freedom of choice. 

   As mentioned by many other folks, the larger issue at hand is the freedom of choice to do what one wants with their employment earnings.  You can invest in almost anything in today's day and age, and try and earn a profit on it, including Tickle Me Elmo's Dolls, Barbie Dolls, and even Postage Stamps, Hockey Cards, or whatever you want.  The main idea is that you get to choose what you want to buy and collect without having people breathing down your neck about your own particular purchasing styles.

The problem with Crypto is that it got a bad rep early on by people who abused the system, but this also happens in the regular commercial banking industry, where big banks are continuously being caught in white-collar crime and fraud activities, so the issue is really a moot point.
 

Have you heard about Alcurex exchange? 

It is no AML/KYC and links to Poloniex, Bittrex, and offers high liquidity trading for US residents, and people all over the world. 

alcurex works for me



The system is made so that it can be abused but only  by some people not all.
Usually when banks or such institutions are found to be guilty of something they find scapegoats to sacrifice.
The master minds are always safe. Is like in politics when some minister is found guilty of something
they resign or is "replaced" but usually after some time they end up on another function (position) again.

I do not think that any AML/KYC can save us from anything its just another form of control of the masses so that the "elite" can
stay safe in position of power.

Regarding the exchange I never heard of it.
It don't see there any option (information) how to deposit USD or EUR therefore they don't ask for any AML/KYC data if
a customer does not use any FIAT currency.

In their terms this this is clearly written that they could ask  AML/KYC data if USD or EUR is used by the customer.



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December 23, 2016, 05:30:26 PM
 #67

this is great info for btc buyers and sellers! this helped me alot!
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January 07, 2017, 11:36:55 AM
 #68

I  don't get it, so If I use a service that has AML, and I use it to transfert BTC into EUR.
My government get the infos ?

For exemple : If with mining I get like 5000$/year, does I will be asked to pay tax because the trading service will have send the infos to my country government ?
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January 10, 2017, 09:19:05 AM
 #69

good
freigeist
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January 14, 2017, 07:49:42 PM
 #70

I  don't get it, so If I use a service that has AML, and I use it to transfert BTC into EUR.
My government get the infos ?

For exemple : If with mining I get like 5000$/year, does I will be asked to pay tax because the trading service will have send the infos to my country government ?

They could get the info.
Depends on the tax law and other laws that you have in your country.
I doubt that they send info automatically for every transaction that people make.
Usually banks and other financial institution have software that tracks the incoming and outgoing transactions of the account.
So if the software detects a strange transaction pattern on the account than this account could get reported to
tax or other state authorities.

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January 20, 2017, 03:00:07 AM
 #71

Can someone be imprison in making Laundering Fiat money and converting it to cryptocurrencies .What if your country is not in the lists of this AML/KYC the one who will commit it will not be punishable by law?

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January 21, 2017, 04:35:55 PM
 #72

Can someone be imprison in making Laundering Fiat money and converting it to cryptocurrencies .What if your country is not in the lists of this AML/KYC the one who will commit it will not be punishable by law?

Of course it can be and again it depends on the law in that country.
If there is not any law that regulates the issue than it won't be because in this case this won't be a crime.

For example take look at this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country

In some countries is forbidden to even use crypto currencies while in others is legal or not restricted.
Also person could be punished to do money laundering or being a "financial mule" by using his own bank account(s)
to transfer money  to 3rd parties.




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February 19, 2017, 02:10:44 PM
 #73

Regarding the list of stricter KYC compliance, you can add www.Quebex.com. (Canadian p2p Bitcoin exchange)


https://www.Quebex.com Candian Bitcoin Exchange
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March 09, 2017, 06:15:50 PM
 #74

is there any web provide all security tools for any bitcoin exchange business website ? eg.

1 - id verification manual and api
2 - sms verification
3 - 2 factor auth

i know there many websites like jumio charge per check. i am looking for cheapest solution under 1 roof or are there free sources available ?

please guide


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April 04, 2017, 09:30:47 AM
 #75

Thanks for this explanation. Helpful stuff.

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April 13, 2017, 12:03:54 AM
 #76

AML is a Anti-Money Laundering it is use by the bank or other financing institution to know if it is the cash/BTC where from the legal/illegal job.
KYC is Know Your Client it is use to verify the identity of your client.

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April 20, 2017, 11:17:21 AM
 #77

Just yesterday a French startup was punished (80K€) by ACPR to not identify 34 customers for the use of bitcoin exchange services.  Roll Eyes
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May 13, 2017, 07:42:43 AM
 #78

There is a very serious risk associated with trading on exchanges.

If an exchange suddenly updates its KYC rules, and you can no longer meet those requirements (for whatever reason), then your funds will be permanently seized.

Good luck to any foreigners trying to get BTC out of Bitflyer in Japan.

My BTC on Bitflyer has been seized for over a month, with seemingly no way to withdraw it in any form, and no explanation from Bitflyer (they haven't answered my last 5 messages).

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May 14, 2017, 09:40:37 PM
 #79

is there any web provide all security tools for any bitcoin exchange business website ? eg.

1 - id verification manual and api
2 - sms verification
3 - 2 factor auth

i know there many websites like jumio charge per check. i am looking for cheapest solution under 1 roof or are there free sources available ?

please guide




Dont even look for this kind of service. KYC is common procedure for all online business related services.I faced with this rules when i opened my first  gambling account. Sometimes they ask for selfie with your id. For example Cex.io exchange has really disturbing KYC rules for new customers. They ask for tons of documents and selfie with your documents which in front of monitor have to be cover of this exchange Cheesy That's really "more" compared to other exchanges.

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May 23, 2017, 01:35:08 PM
 #80

Can someone be imprison in making Laundering Fiat money and converting it to cryptocurrencies .What if your country is not in the lists of this AML/KYC the one who will commit it will not be punishable by law?

If you are a big enough fish, they can find you. I would venture to say if you are doing those type of transactions, on a regular basis and catch their attention they will go to great lengths to find and lock your funds up. The US treasury can lean on any country in any way they deem appropriate. KYC/AML is a big deal. Dont fuck with them.

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