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Author Topic: need help from a german http://asicminer-shop.de sold me faulty miner  (Read 788 times)
soulistyce
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February 08, 2014, 11:32:24 AM
 #1

hi,
im from Portugal, bought an antminer on http://asicminer-shop.de,
they have send me a faulty miner, it only worked for 1 day,
when i got home from work it was dead only showing a red light but windows no longer recognise it,
the miner was dead, tryied to send email complaining but no reply yet and its been two days, they are just ignoring me,
Where in Germany can i complain???
to whitch authorities can i complain???
after all it cost me 56eur plus 12eur international flight mail.

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soulistyce
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February 08, 2014, 12:19:49 PM
 #2

already complain to european union consumer protection but im searching for something local

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February 08, 2014, 01:34:32 PM
 #3

i think you can send it back and get you money back (including shipping costs) - just send it back and tell them they should refund you (no change, no repair, if you are in 14 day from delivery time).

May be that needs some time, but thats the way in germany... If they don't, you need a lawyer, then they will do.

btw, you have to send it back in any case (for proof and possible repair), so in this situation you loose nothing by sending it back. Just do it in a way, that you can proof that you have send it...
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February 08, 2014, 02:01:32 PM
 #4

Maybe post it in the German language section? All Germans there  Grin

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February 08, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
 #5

Hi Soulistyce,

I am Mario, director of CryptoCoins Consulting Ltd. We run www.pi-wallet.com and operate in Germany which is why I know how customers can deal with such a problem.

First of all, Portugal is in the EU which means you have a revocation right regarding most online mail order contracts (including the one you talk about). In Germany, this can be done within 14 days after getting your product. However, German companies have to offer the same 14 days to everyone else in the EU and if in the destination country the deadline is longer, even German companies have to grant the longer deadline.
For Portugal it is 14 days as well so theres no difference here.

However, the deadline will start not before receipt of the goods by the recipient (not before receipt of the first partial delivery in the case of recurrent supply of similar goods), nor before fulfillment of the companies information obligations as per Article 246 § 2 in conjunction with § 1 Sections 1 and 2 EGBGB. These obligations include explaining to you that you have such revocation rights and how you can make use of them. If they didn't explain that to you, then the deadline didn't start and you can make use of it whenever you want until they informed you about it, which will start the deadline of 14 days.

If you want to make use of your revocation right, you just send them a mail (e-mail or paper mail) telling them that you make use of your revocation right. If you did that within the deadline, then you can send it back afterwards or ask them if they want you to send it back with a specific delivery service etc. The company will have to pay the cost for the delivery service and refund you in full (including shipping cost). Note that the deadline has been met if you sent the mail in time, even it it takes 20 days or more until the item is delivered back to the company.

They will then have to refund you. However, if the item is damaged they will only have to refund you partially depending on the severity of the damage. On the other Hand there is also a warranty on such a product. This means that, if your ASIC stops working within 6 months after you got it, then it is automatically implied that it has had some defects at the time of sale, meaning that the seller will have to replace it unless they can prove it was your fault. After 6 months have passed, there's another 18 months in which you can get a replacement/refund but you will have to prove it's their fault, not the other way around.

Additionally, and this is something not even a lot of Germans know and German companies often try to tell the clients it wasn't that way, you can choose if you want the product repaired or if you want a new one. It's your choice, not the sellers choice (unless the product is no longer available, then you will have to go with a repair).

I hope that helped,

Mario


Edit: I just looked over their website. There is a "WIDERRUFSBELEHRUNG" Tab on the top, which means "revocation rights". However, this is not enough because of 2 reasons:
1: It is only in German. They not only deliver to customers outside of Germany, the website is also available in English. This, combined with the fact that there are no ToS, means that for people outside of countries where German is the national language, the contract language is English which makes is mandatory to provide the revocation rights in English in order to start the deadline.
2: Revocation right only on the website don't so anything for a company. It has to be delivered to the client separately. However, I cannot know if they maybe send it to customers with the confirmation mail (thats what we do).
soulistyce
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February 08, 2014, 02:21:58 PM
 #6

i think you can send it back and get you money back (including shipping costs) - just send it back and tell them they should refund you (no change, no repair, if you are in 14 day from delivery time).

May be that needs some time, but thats the way in germany... If they don't, you need a lawyer, then they will do.

btw, you have to send it back in any case (for proof and possible repair), so in this situation you loose nothing by sending it back. Just do it in a way, that you can proof that you have send it...

ive send it back 3 days after the delivery, this friday  Undecided even if they dont reply to me

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soulistyce
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February 08, 2014, 02:25:10 PM
 #7

Hi Soulistyce,

I am Mario, director of CryptoCoins Consulting Ltd. We run www.pi-wallet.com and operate in Germany which is why I know how customers can deal with such a problem.

First of all, Portugal is in the EU which means you have a revocation right regarding most online mail order contracts (including the one you talk about). In Germany, this can be done within 14 days after getting your product. However, German companies have to offer the same 14 days to everyone else in the EU and if in the destination country the deadline is longer, even German companies have to grant the longer deadline.
For Portugal it is 14 days as well so theres no difference here.

However, the deadline will start not before receipt of the goods by the recipient (not before receipt of the first partial delivery in the case of recurrent supply of similar goods), nor before fulfillment of the companies information obligations as per Article 246 § 2 in conjunction with § 1 Sections 1 and 2 EGBGB. These obligations include explaining to you that you have such revocation rights and how you can make use of them. If they didn't explain that to you, then the deadline didn't start and you can make use of it whenever you want until they informed you about it, which will start the deadline of 14 days.

If you want to make use of your revocation right, you just send them a mail (e-mail or paper mail) telling them that you make use of your revocation right. If you did that within the deadline, then you can send it back afterwards or ask them if they want you to send it back with a specific delivery service etc. The company will have to pay the cost for the delivery service and refund you in full (including shipping cost). Note that the deadline has been met if you sent the mail in time, even it it takes 20 days or more until the item is delivered back to the company.

They will then have to refund you. However, if the item is damaged they will only have to refund you partially depending on the severity of the damage. On the other Hand there is also a warranty on such a product. This means that, if your ASIC stops working within 6 months after you got it, then it is automatically implied that it has had some defects at the time of sale, meaning that the seller will have to replace it unless they can prove it was your fault. After 6 months have passed, there's another 18 months in which you can get a replacement/refund but you will have to prove it's their fault, not the other way around.

Additionally, and this is something not even a lot of Germans know and German companies often try to tell the clients it wasn't that way, you can choose if you want the product repaired or if you want a new one. It's your choice, not the sellers choice (unless the product is no longer available, then you will have to go with a repair).

I hope that helped,

Mario

thanks, for want ive understand i have to invoque the article 246 § 2 in conjunction with § 1 Sections 1 and 2 EGBGB and ask for a refund, but my problem its that they are completly ignoring my emails, they wont reply to any of them Huh

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Aswan
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February 08, 2014, 02:37:00 PM
 #8

I just edited my previous post, didn't know there would be replies already.

ive send it back 3 days after the delivery, this friday  Undecided even if they dont reply to me

That should do it.


thanks, for want ive understand i have to invoque the article 246 § 2 in conjunction with § 1 Sections 1 and 2 EGBGB and ask for a refund, but my problem its that they are completly ignoring my emails, they wont reply to any of them Huh

By sending it back you have made use of your revocation right (just sending it back is enough already, you don't even have to inform them). I hope you got a tracking ID so you can prove you sent it back.
Even if they don't respond the deadline has been met and they have to refund you (or, if you want a new one/a repair, you can request that).
Just wait until it has been delivered, they will probably contact you then. If they don't, paper mail them, set a deadline of 14 days for the refund and provide your Bank account number and BIC. If you want to be refunded in BTC you will have to ask them. There is no way to force them to refund you in bitcoin so providing your Bank details in the paper mail is the correct way to do it. However, this is only if they don't contact you, which I am almost sure they will.
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February 08, 2014, 02:40:05 PM
 #9

thanks, ive send another email revocating my rights and article,
hope they reply since they havent reply to any email

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soulistyce
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February 08, 2014, 05:38:06 PM
 #10

looks like they are an honest team, they've replyied to my emails today, they will replace my antminer,
for what they've said they didnt recieved my firsts emails, looks like i was beeng nervous to soon..
i've already appologise...now just waiting for the replacement

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