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Author Topic: How Can/Do You Store Files on a Blockchain?  (Read 535 times)
Maveth13
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June 27, 2018, 02:02:38 PM
 #1

We know blockchain is not only limited to cryptocurrencies. But how exactly do you store files, say a one page pdf, in a blockchain? Especially without using any third-party services like IPFS.
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June 27, 2018, 02:25:24 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2), achow101 (2)
 #2

We know blockchain is not only limited to cryptocurrencies. But how exactly do you store files, say a one page pdf, in a blockchain? Especially without using any third-party services like IPFS.
Are you asking about how to abuse the blockchain? lol.
You should not!

thank you for taking time to read my post.
Maveth13
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June 27, 2018, 03:13:31 PM
 #3

We know blockchain is not only limited to cryptocurrencies. But how exactly do you store files, say a one page pdf, in a blockchain? Especially without using any third-party services like IPFS.
Are you asking about how to abuse the blockchain? lol.
You should not!

Abuse? Clearly you should read more. File storage is one of the best usecase for blockchain, and there's already a lot of sites/services that provides it.
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June 27, 2018, 03:26:16 PM
 #4

We know blockchain is not only limited to cryptocurrencies. But how exactly do you store files, say a one page pdf, in a blockchain? Especially without using any third-party services like IPFS.
Are you asking about how to abuse the blockchain? lol.
You should not!

Abuse? Clearly you should read more. File storage is one of the best usecase for blockchain, and there's already a lot of sites/services that provides it.
Clearly you should read more there are better ways to share files than spamming the blockchain.
the blockchain is very inefficent for these stuff. Of course there are a lot of scammers trying to sell the blockchain to steal some money from people like you.

thank you for taking time to read my post.
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June 27, 2018, 04:09:18 PM
 #5

Yes, you can. I'm not sure I'd call it abuse of the blockchain (at least, on Bitcoin's), but as goddog says, it's extremely inefficient to do so. People still do it for fun, sending/storing messages and files esp on Ethereum lately. There are some services still out there that'll do it for casual users (cryptograffiti is one). You can see a marriage proposal from two weeks ago on Bitcoin blockchain: https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/52465ad6a5b3742f83f74699b1d6a4a378ac940bebe60183f4a19d1641d464fe#o=0
Output #0 script data: j(Olivia,Will you marry me?Love,Paul

There are a few blockchain projects specifically intended for file storage. I'm not familiar with their specific use cases, but Storj is an old one, and Sia is still I suppose viable, given the merged mining with Bitcoin but neither actually store files on the blockchain, I think, rather on a decentralised network of unused disk space, blockchain is just the method to transact.

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June 27, 2018, 05:32:27 PM
 #6

That depends on the blockchain protocol,
1. does the protocol let anyone submit/store file?
2. does the protocol have soft/hard-limit about file which can be submitted/stored?
3. does the protocol force everyone who's on network/nodes to store all data or not?

But, i think another kind of P2P protocol such as Freenet or BitTorrent protocol would be more efficient for store/sharing files. Maybe you should check how Storj/Sia works.

Use SegWit and enjoy lower fees
goddog
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June 27, 2018, 05:48:27 PM
 #7


Output #0 script data: j(Olivia,Will you marry me?Love,Paul

oh, that's the worst thing to do, I know, no one can stop abuse and spam, but at least use script(PUSHDATA), so your spam will go to witness.

thank you for taking time to read my post.
Maveth13
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June 27, 2018, 06:23:17 PM
 #8

We know blockchain is not only limited to cryptocurrencies. But how exactly do you store files, say a one page pdf, in a blockchain? Especially without using any third-party services like IPFS.
Are you asking about how to abuse the blockchain? lol.
You should not!

Abuse? Clearly you should read more. File storage is one of the best usecase for blockchain, and there's already a lot of sites/services that provides it.
Clearly you should read more there are better ways to share files than spamming the blockchain.
the blockchain is very inefficent for these stuff. Of course there are a lot of scammers trying to sell the blockchain to steal some money from people like you.


"The blockchain, sell blockchain"? That's amusing. People like you who seem to think that blockchain's sole purpose is for cryptocurrency is what hinders the development of the technology. Most researchers on this field doesn't care about your cryptocurrency transactions clogging up. Blockchain is still in research and experimental state, so what the hell do you do with it, you experiment.

That depends on the blockchain protocol,
1. does the protocol let anyone submit/store file?
2. does the protocol have soft/hard-limit about file which can be submitted/stored?
3. does the protocol force everyone who's on network/nodes to store all data or not?

But, i think another kind of P2P protocol such as Freenet or BitTorrent protocol would be more efficient for store/sharing files. Maybe you should check how Storj/Sia works.

I can't really rely on any third-party like Storj or Sia.
goddog
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June 27, 2018, 07:04:50 PM
 #9



"The blockchain, sell blockchain"? That's amusing. People like you who seem to think that blockchain's sole purpose is for cryptocurrency is what hinders the development of the technology. Most researchers on this field doesn't care about your cryptocurrency transactions clogging up. Blockchain is still in research and experimental state, so what the hell do you do with it, you experiment.

the difference between us is that I know how to spam the blockchain. Given enought money I can spam any blockchain.
You don't know, and I hope you will not find out.



thank you for taking time to read my post.
Maveth13
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June 28, 2018, 02:49:53 PM
 #10



"The blockchain, sell blockchain"? That's amusing. People like you who seem to think that blockchain's sole purpose is for cryptocurrency is what hinders the development of the technology. Most researchers on this field doesn't care about your cryptocurrency transactions clogging up. Blockchain is still in research and experimental state, so what the hell do you do with it, you experiment.

the difference between us is that I know how to spam the blockchain. Given enought money I can spam any blockchain.
You don't know, and I hope you will not find out.




Everyone knows how to spam a blockchain, it's a common known issue/attack. And by the way, no, you don't need that much money. Don't flatter yourself with such simple knowledge kid.
goddog
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June 28, 2018, 02:53:06 PM
 #11



"The blockchain, sell blockchain"? That's amusing. People like you who seem to think that blockchain's sole purpose is for cryptocurrency is what hinders the development of the technology. Most researchers on this field doesn't care about your cryptocurrency transactions clogging up. Blockchain is still in research and experimental state, so what the hell do you do with it, you experiment.

the difference between us is that I know how to spam the blockchain. Given enought money I can spam any blockchain.
You don't know, and I hope you will not find out.




Everyone knows how to spam a blockchain, it's a common known issue/attack. And by the way, no, you don't need that much money. Don't flatter yourself with such simple knowledge kid.
If you know how to spam the blockchain(storing file on it), why you opened this thread?

thank you for taking time to read my post.
Noelnada
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June 28, 2018, 06:52:01 PM
 #12

I don't see what would be the benefit of storing files on a blockchain since they must all be identitical to be valid the files should be duplicated as many times as there are blockchain nodes running and validating new blocks.

Maybe it could have a limited use yes, to have a global file mirror system for critical informations but the price to upload the files should really super high in order to maintain the blockchain, I don't see a need for it in the current world.

Now check DeepOnion ( $Onion) Deepvault which is storing hashes of digital files in its blockchain in order to validate their integrity, I think it's a more realistic and working approach. They are releasing a easy to use web version of this feature  Cheesy

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pebwindkraft
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June 29, 2018, 05:30:04 PM
 #13

...
Abuse? Clearly you should read more. File storage is one of the best usecase for blockchain, and there's already a lot of sites/services that provides it.
I disagree to the statement, that (bitcoin’s) blockchain is best use case for storing files. It is simply too expensive, to store data.
I think it’s not about abuse or reading more. This type of discussion is controversial. On the other hand side, if the opportunity exists, to use the blockchain in a different way, then possibilities should be explored. From a security point of view it doesn’t make sense to say “it is possible, but do not use it”.

The bitcoin blockchain has already data stored in it, and a typical way to do it is using OP_RETURN, with 40 and/or 80 bytes limit. So you would have to create many transactions, to split the file over the transactions.
An alternative approach is to create a P2SH tx, which allows for ~500 bytes. Then again, splitting the files and creating the many tx and paying the fees doesn’t make it a good opportunity. One can clearly see, that bitcoin blockchain is not designed to store data.
Hence the proposals to use a bridge to another system, or going directly to Factum, SIA or STORJ. Hopefully bridges will come into play one day.
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June 29, 2018, 06:40:25 PM
 #14


I think it’s not about abuse or reading more. This type of discussion is controversial. On the other hand side, if the opportunity exists, to use the blockchain in a different way, then possibilities should be explored. From a security point of view it doesn’t make sense to say “it is possible, but do not use it”.


The blockchain is the only way we have to prevent doublespend. Any other use is an abuse. Doublespending files is a no sense.
Using the blockchain only as a database is an abuse. It is not. What happen if using the blockchain to store files become more valuable than using it to prevent the doublespend?

thank you for taking time to read my post.
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June 29, 2018, 08:15:45 PM
 #15

...
The blockchain is the only way we have to prevent doublespend. Any other use is an abuse. Doublespending files is a no sense.
Using the blockchain only as a database is an abuse. It is not. What happen if using the blockchain to store files become more valuable than using it to prevent the doublespend?
Yes, I agree to this point of view. I was thinking in the sense of being „just a good citizen“, and using the blockchain only for monetary transactions. And everyone would do so (be a good citizen). And then someone finds out, that you can store data in the blockchain, it get‘s known to the broader community, and suddenly we can‘t transact monetary values any more, cause the system is flooded with data. This would be a denial of service (attack or spamming?). So better we know early about this, than too late. Hence important to shed light in every unknown area.
But never mind, Bitcoin is doing good for ten years now, and everything it proved to be resistant  Wink
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June 29, 2018, 11:52:08 PM
 #16

sure we can store files on blockchain, but it will be very inefficient and bloated in size
it would be better to have a blockchain for storing "references" to actual file location
the file can be stored in multiple locations, and the blockchain serves as a pointer to them
I'm thinking of "napster meets blockchain", we have distributed file sharing and then blockchain to keep all valid references

Ucy
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July 01, 2018, 09:42:48 PM
 #17

I think you can create a Blockchain for storing files.  Question is how can this be achieved? Would miners be necessary in this case? Why not a different kind of Blockchain?
Who says storing duplicated files on thousands of Nodes is not a good thing... Don't forget that the purpose of Blockchain is to eliminate censorship, enable people have full control over their money, Transparency and eliminate any Point of Failure.    How can we not want these wonderful features for files on Blockchain?

I love the idea of duplicating files across thousands of public Nodes.


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July 02, 2018, 12:54:49 AM
 #18

I think you can create a Blockchain for storing files.  Question is how can this be achieved? Would miners be necessary in this case? Why not a different kind of Blockchain?
Who says storing duplicated files on thousands of Nodes is not a good thing... Don't forget that the purpose of Blockchain is to eliminate censorship, enable people have full control over their money, Transparency and eliminate any Point of Failure.    How can we not want these wonderful features for files on Blockchain?

I love the idea of duplicating files across thousands of public Nodes.

blockchain is to prevent doublespend. if you want persistence, you already have freenet and it is far way more efficent than a blockchain.

thank you for taking time to read my post.
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July 02, 2018, 07:52:09 AM
 #19

Think of the Blockchain as an online database or a virtual ledger of some sort, with the technology it has given it has simply removed the use of third party services as you only need your cryptocurrency wallet in order to send and receive from the other party you are dealing with, it simply has removed the used of banks for their bank transfers which includes a more expensive fee compared to what network fees you are paying today.

Now imagine using that kind of technology on other day to day transactions from buying and selling of assets (real estate, stocks) to the government's activities it will give you more transparency on your deals and their actions. Someone will input/execute the transaction and everybody can look it up in the blockchain. Just think of it as an tamper proof online ledger where once you successfully inputted a data it can never be change or altered inside the chain. The positive benefit I see is that this tool will be a cost-effective way of reducing the potential frauds happening in our transactions.

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July 02, 2018, 09:42:46 AM
Merited by buwaytress (1)
 #20

Now imagine using that kind of technology on other day to day transactions from buying and selling of assets (real estate, stocks) to the government's activities it will give you more transparency on your deals and their actions. Someone will input/execute the transaction and everybody can look it up in the blockchain. Just think of it as an tamper proof online ledger where once you successfully inputted a data it can never be change or altered inside the chain.
OP wanted to store a PDF, at $1000 (today) to $100,000 (last December) per MB, that's rediculously expensive to do.
What you can do, is just store the hash of the file. This proves the file existed at the moment the hash was stored, and can't be altered anymore.
Dooglus did this to store Bustabit's hash here.

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